Arming teachers bad cus in Parkand a singlular example exists of a cowardly RO not doing job, WTF?

[frigidweirdo]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Why does the teacher have to carry the firearm? You are making a gross assumption. Why can't the gun be locked away in the classroom?

Also, many teachers are veterans and others have experience with firearms.

I am a veteran with extensive training. When we did active shooter training, the principal even told the entire faculty he would be staying with me where he knew he would be safe. My assistant principal at one of the schools where I worked was a deputy sheriff before he became a teacher.

Try coming into my school if I and my fellow teachers were armed and see how long you last. I give you two minutes of walking around checking locked classroom doors before you bleed out on the floor.

Bravado huh?

The point is, what is a teacher's job? To be there to shoot potential killers?

I wonder where the teacher is going to lock the gun away where the students wont figure out how to get it.

In the homework cupboard.

 

[fncceo]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Which you then go on to illustrate with a single incident.

We allow armed security at almost every mass gathering of people ... except where our children are the most vulnerable.

Armed security doesn't have to be teachers. It certainly won't be teachers who choose not to be armed.

But, everyone one of us benefits from armed security at our public functions ... why not children?

 

[XponentialChaos]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Didn't read your own link? The student was injured because something from the ceiling fell on him. He was not struck by a bullet.

Weird. I don't recall saying that the student was struck by a bullet.

I believe I said that it's more likely that the gun is accidentally discharged than it is for a teacher to save the day by shooting a bad guy.

 

[XponentialChaos]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Why does the teacher have to carry the firearm? You are making a gross assumption. Why can't the gun be locked away in the classroom?

Also, many teachers are veterans and others have experience with firearms.

I am a veteran with extensive training. When we did active shooter training, the principal even told the entire faculty he would be staying with me where he knew he would be safe. My assistant principal at one of the schools where I worked was a deputy sheriff before he became a teacher.

Try coming into my school if I and my fellow teachers were armed and see how long you last. I give you two minutes of walking around checking locked classroom doors before you bleed out on the floor.

Yea? Well the link that you accused me of not reading said that the person who accidentally discharged their gun happened to also be a reserve police officer trained in firearm use.

What happened there? Why was the gun not locked away in a non-emergency situation? Was that teacher more likely to kill a school shooter or an innocent student?

 

[XponentialChaos]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Which you then go on to illustrate with a single incident.

We allow armed security at almost every mass gathering of people ... except where our children are the most vulnerable.

Armed security doesn't have to be teachers. It certainly won't be teachers who choose not to be armed.

But, everyone one of us benefits from armed security at our public functions ... why not children?

Actually, I used TWO examples. The second being the police instructor on gun safety. If you want more examples, I can google more for you.

Obviously armed security doesn't have to be teachers. Maybe you didn't read the OP? Go ahead and bring in armed security if it makes you feel better. Many schools already have an armed resource officer. Hire more of those if you really want. I'd much rather have an armed resource officer watching out for student safety than a teacher, for obvious reasons.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Didn't read your own link? The student was injured because something from the ceiling fell on him. He was not struck by a bullet.

Weird. I don't recall saying that the student was struck by a bullet.

I believe I said that it's more likely that the gun is accidentally discharged than it is for a teacher to save the day by shooting a bad guy.

The student was not injured by the gun! The "gun-trained teacher" was practicing gun safety by keeping the weapon pointed up. It defeats your argument entirely!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Why does the teacher have to carry the firearm? You are making a gross assumption. Why can't the gun be locked away in the classroom?

Also, many teachers are veterans and others have experience with firearms.

I am a veteran with extensive training. When we did active shooter training, the principal even told the entire faculty he would be staying with me where he knew he would be safe. My assistant principal at one of the schools where I worked was a deputy sheriff before he became a teacher.

Try coming into my school if I and my fellow teachers were armed and see how long you last. I give you two minutes of walking around checking locked classroom doors before you bleed out on the floor.

Yea? Well the link that you accused me of not reading said that the person who accidentally discharged their gun happened to also be a reserve police officer trained in firearm use.

What happened there? Why was the gun not locked away in a non-emergency situation? Was that teacher more likely to kill a school shooter or an innocent student?

Is an unarmed teacher likely to kill a school shooter or get killed along with the students if they have no gun at all?

Unlike your supposition, mine has an almost 100% certainty, whereas your scenario has a microscopic chance of occurring.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Which you then go on to illustrate with a single incident.

We allow armed security at almost every mass gathering of people ... except where our children are the most vulnerable.

Armed security doesn't have to be teachers. It certainly won't be teachers who choose not to be armed.

But, everyone one of us benefits from armed security at our public functions ... why not children?

Actually, I used TWO examples. The second being the police instructor on gun safety. If you want more examples, I can google more for you.

Obviously armed security doesn't have to be teachers. Maybe you didn't read the OP? Go ahead and bring in armed security if it makes you feel better. Many schools already have an armed resource officer. Hire more of those if you really want. I'd much rather have an armed resource officer watching out for student safety than a teacher, for obvious reasons.

You would never be able to have sufficient numbers of resource officers compared to how many teachers you could arm. I taught at a high school in Florida similar to Parkland. We had over 3200 students, 200 staff members and 2 resource officers. We were the only school in the district with 2.

A fellow faculty member was a Army Reserves Special Forces major. My counterpart assistant principal was a former Army Ranger. Our Air Force Junior ROTC was a twenty-year veteran security police officer. There were actually many more, but I think you get the picture. Are county sheriffs deputies better than they would be in an active shooter situation?

 

[Sahba]

Is it possible that we're getting a disparate message re. guns here... For instance, Lebron James recently came out against guns / 2A but also recently hired x 10 armed bodyguards to protect his home. All the plutocrats (aka Bloomberg) and 'Feinstein-ian' proponents of gun restrictions seem to have a double standard for themselves when their safety is involved, up in their ivory towers. The thing is, I'm applauding their decision to protect themselves and theirs via firearms; I'm just taking umbrage with the double standard that exists when it comes to what they seek to legislate for us the citizenry!

When it comes to school safety, what are the safest schools and why are they safe. There are the 'hoyty toyty' private, prep schools with armed guards that are quite safe. There are small town rural schools in the center of homogeneous communities, such as mine, where virtually everyone in the vicinity of the school has access to guns. Then there is everyone else out there with antithetical safety / firearm philosophies. The schools with guns in them and schools where the community is relatively armed are where I would send my children (if I had children).

Both ideological camps seem to have a fundamental disconnect when it comes to firearms. I have plenty of friends who get a visceral reaction when a inanimate firearm comes into view as they walk into my home. They may have never held or fired a firearm but they have this strong sense of apprehension and loathing by the mere thought or sight of one. Then there are those who are familiar with firearms, grown up with them or are just generally familiarized with them & view them as harmless chunks of metal and polymer inert / inanimate until manipulated into functionality.

The thing for the 1st camp to realize is that it is a tool, and like any unfamiliar tool it just takes a modicum of familiarization to utilize it safely and with rudimentary efficacy; it is not some monumental hurdle to be overwhelmed by. 2nd camp (myself included) needs to try to step into the shoes of camp #1 and realize that what is as common & familiar to us as the i-phone on our hip is really a misunderstood & formidable mental hurdle for others to wrap their heads around & even for the willing it doesn't happen over night. I've tought grandmothers and all sorts of a-typical firearm 'candidates' to shoot safely and effectively, though few are what I would call adroit or 'naturals', lol. Follow x 4 simple rules and in less than 5 min. of firearm familiarization the most unlikely novice should be shooting safely with some measure of efficacy, 'destroying' their target and nothing else.
- treat all guns as if they are loaded (even when you know they are not)
- never point gun at anything you are not willing to destroy
- keep your finger off the trigger until you have acquired your target
- make sure of your target and what is behind it

No one with an iota of sanity or credibility has proposed arming all teachers! Rather, allow voluntary carry of those teachers that come forward, have been vetted thoroughly & have demonstrated the rudimentary skills to be safe (note I said nothing about being an expert shot). The thing is, not every school in a given county might have such a teacher coming forth and being armed & this doesn't negate the efficacy of passing such legislation. Would be school shooters (cowards mostly) don't know if a given school would be a soft or hard target & believe me, that is HUGE... IMHO!

 

[ptbw forever]

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes.

And the alternative to that scenario is....Columbine.

Think for once in your pathetic life.

 

[Sahba]

There are countless articles (use your google box) on what many schools consider "the last line of defense" re. potential school mass murder incidents. If one's lack of understanding or 'disconnect' from the reality of the situation lulls them a false sense of security I'm sorry to disabuse them of that.

Do you realize that the high velocity impact of, even the miniscule 50-60 grain (average) bullet fired from a .223 Rem cartridge (AR-15) traveling well in excess of 3000 fps can cause hydraulic shock / lockup. That means a hit in a non vital area can put one down temporarily even though it's non fatal & these are coming at a rate as fast as one can pull a trigger. I rue the day if these homicidal school terrorists ever wield the big brother AR-10 or AK with slightly lower velocities but with triple the grain weight of bullet. there wouldn't be nearly the number of wounded in that scenario...

Wake the Fuck up you moronic parents, school administrators & legislators! "last resort" means you pull out all the stops & a box-O rocks aint gonna cut it! Last resort means that Joe Smith the math teacher / soccer coach has expressed interest in having his .38 revolver in a lock box, locked in a drawer in his desk (only) while he is at work, etc. etc. Last resort calls on y'all to make that happen, IMHO. Play the odds here, the chance of greater harm vs. greater good & the unrealized deterrent of a tragedy averted, in the first place, on the off chance that the school might be a 'hard target' in the eyes of a would be shooter...

 

[Brain357]

In an interview with Variety Parkland gun control activist Emma Gonzalez suggested arming teachers is a bad idea because her school had “a resource officer and he didn’t do jack sh*t.”
The resource officer referenced by Gonzalez is former Broward County deputy Scot Peterson, who arrived outside the scene of the Parkland attack roughly 90 seconds after it began and stayed outside until it was over, instead of going in to confront the gunman.

Lost on Gonzalez is the fact that armed teachers are there as a last resort. They are there to shoot the attacker if the deputy will not go in or in the event that the deputy cannot go in.

Are the anti 2Aers so simple minded as to think that the almighty 'Nanny State' is the best defense against unleashed homicidal terror. Is the notion of 'Personal Responsibility' so repugnant that it extends to the very lives of their children. What the F, If the principle tells a parent that he has an AR locked up in his office I would expect parents to be thrilled, wouldn't U!

Emma Gonzalez: Don't Arm Teachers, 'We Had a Resource Officer and He Didn't Do Jack Sh*t' | Breitbart

Many school shootings have had armed defenders who either got shot or did nothing.

Meanwhile countries with strong gun control continue to not have school shootings...

 

[2aguy]

Yeah it makes sense for a kid to trust some out of shape teachers that would probably shoot their eye out when a trained officer didnt do what he was trained to do and was his full time job.

There are already a lot of school districts that have armed teachers and staff....so your argument holds no weight....

 

[Brain357]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Sutherland, Texas shooter....stopped by a "private citizen" armed with an AR-15.
Private citizens armed with AR-15's have stopped criminals in their own homes.
Hundreds of thousands of armed private citizens have stopped criminals armed with stolen firearms.
As for schools, all a teacher with no firearms training needs is a safety class and some regular practice at the range.

How many died before he was stopped?

Meanwhile countries with strong gun control don’t have a mass shooting problem...

 

[2aguy]

Arming teachers is bad because it's a bad idea, not because of one particular incident.

Even some conservatives think it's a dumb idea.

Rubio breaks with Trump, doesn't support arming teachers

Look, suppose we arm a bunch of teachers. They're carrying out their class, trying to teach a bunch of kids, while carrying a firearm. What do you think is more likely to happen?

A) A psychotic shooter comes in. Teacher steps in, shoots the intruder and saves the day.
B) The gun is discharged accidentally.

This isn't going to go over like some Hollywood movie of a Language Arts teacher going commando and, against all odds, taking out the Colombine assholes. This is just going to result in a lot of really, really dumb and unnecessary accidents. These are TEACHERS. Not SWAT officers. I honestly think you're just going to compound the problem.

Gun-trained teacher accidentally discharges firearm in Calif. classroom, injuring student

Except we already have lots of school districts that already allow it and we don't have that happening........you should actually understand this before you post...

 

[2aguy]

Police gun safety instructor accidentally shoots self.

But sure, I mean what could possibly go wrong with having a bunch of armed junior high teachers in classrooms?

And research that shows you don't know what you are talking about....

Arming teachers: Science or shot in the dark?



For the Purdue project, students pored over FBI data from past mass shootings, including Sandy Hook, the 2012 Newtown, Conn., mass shooting that ended with 20 children and six adults dead. They studied police response time in relation to casualties, said the institute's director, J. Eric Dietz, Indiana's first director of Homeland Security. Appointed by Gov. Mitch Daniels, Dietz reorganized the state's public safety planning and response while serving as director until 2008.

In their study, the Purdue students created four scenarios and ran them through the computer models that followed an active shooter in a school. It's available at www.researchgate.net/.

They learned what could seem obvious: if a police officer or other armed school official confronts the shooter, fewer casualties are likely to occur. Dietz said the gun debate is so polarizing, his students sought to use science to inform people in the middle of the debate.

"What we found was profound," said Dietz. He said a single resource officer "or even an armed teacher in a defensive position between attacker and students can reduce the number of victims by up to 70 percent."

Dietz and his students have been presenting their findings at seminars across the country. They're using models now to study stadiums and sporting events.

"My students weren't supporting a certain agenda item. We tried to take a very objective look," said Dietz.

"In all cases, some presence of weapons was an advantage," he said. "Essentially, our model shows what President Trump said after the Florida shooting – arm more people. That's what we predict from the science we built."

 

[2aguy]

Police gun safety instructor accidentally shoots self.

But sure, I mean what could possibly go wrong with having a bunch of armed junior high teachers in classrooms?

What could go wrong?...you could look at all the states that do it currently without problems...and ask them...

Here’s all the states where teachers already carry guns in the classroom

Florida is on the verge of becoming the 15th state to arm teachers after Gov. Rick Scott signed an omnibus bill Friday allowing school staff to undergo law enforcement training to carry guns in the classroom.

Although the notion may seem radical, at least 14 states already arm teachers, according to a VICE News review of state laws and interviews with education department officials and school board associations around the country. Those states are Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, and Washington.


Another 16 states give local school boards the authority to decide whether school staff can carry guns, either explicitly or through legal loopholes, but officials said they didn’t know of any instances of armed teachers in those states.

 

[2aguy]

Has it really got to the point, teachers should arm themselves? All because a few bad apples (meaning the Resource officers) aren't doing their jobs?

Yes, I lived in a much different time and place. Where we didn't have school shootings and no teachers in the entire state weren't armed.

I do agree that having signs on school property warning "Protected by Community Police" is totally a bad idea. It just opens up for just about any crazy person to come into the schools and start shooting anyone on site. Ignoring the stupid sign that it is protected by Community police in the process. Like they would even care about it anyways. I am sure they would even try and take shots at them (Community police).

I think most schools either lock their front doors during school hours; or have metal detectors installed.

What does a metal detector do for a mass shooter? No one ever explains that....

 

[2aguy]

In an interview with Variety Parkland gun control activist Emma Gonzalez suggested arming teachers is a bad idea because her school had “a resource officer and he didn’t do jack sh*t.”
The resource officer referenced by Gonzalez is former Broward County deputy Scot Peterson, who arrived outside the scene of the Parkland attack roughly 90 seconds after it began and stayed outside until it was over, instead of going in to confront the gunman.

Lost on Gonzalez is the fact that armed teachers are there as a last resort. They are there to shoot the attacker if the deputy will not go in or in the event that the deputy cannot go in.

Are the anti 2Aers so simple minded as to think that the almighty 'Nanny State' is the best defense against unleashed homicidal terror. Is the notion of 'Personal Responsibility' so repugnant that it extends to the very lives of their children. What the F, If the principle tells a parent that he has an AR locked up in his office I would expect parents to be thrilled, wouldn't U!

Emma Gonzalez: Don't Arm Teachers, 'We Had a Resource Officer and He Didn't Do Jack Sh*t' | Breitbart

Many school shootings have had armed defenders who either got shot or did nothing.

Meanwhile countries with strong gun control continue to not have school shootings...

Wrong....Britain almost had 2 in the last few years, more than they have had in the past, and their gun control laws didn't stop them...dumb luck did....

 

[2aguy]

In an interview with Variety Parkland gun control activist Emma Gonzalez suggested arming teachers is a bad idea because her school had “a resource officer and he didn’t do jack sh*t.”
The resource officer referenced by Gonzalez is former Broward County deputy Scot Peterson, who arrived outside the scene of the Parkland attack roughly 90 seconds after it began and stayed outside until it was over, instead of going in to confront the gunman.

Lost on Gonzalez is the fact that armed teachers are there as a last resort. They are there to shoot the attacker if the deputy will not go in or in the event that the deputy cannot go in.

Are the anti 2Aers so simple minded as to think that the almighty 'Nanny State' is the best defense against unleashed homicidal terror. Is the notion of 'Personal Responsibility' so repugnant that it extends to the very lives of their children. What the F, If the principle tells a parent that he has an AR locked up in his office I would expect parents to be thrilled, wouldn't U!

Emma Gonzalez: Don't Arm Teachers, 'We Had a Resource Officer and He Didn't Do Jack Sh*t' | Breitbart

Well arming teachers is stupid because it's stupid, full stop.

Tell that to all of these states that already do it without problems...

Here’s all the states where teachers already carry guns in the classroom

Florida is on the verge of becoming the 15th state to arm teachers after Gov. Rick Scott signed an omnibus bill Friday allowing school staff to undergo law enforcement training to carry guns in the classroom.

Although the notion may seem radical, at least 14 states already arm teachers, according to a VICE News review of state laws and interviews with education department officials and school board associations around the country. Those states are Alabama, Arkansas, Colorado, Idaho, Indiana, Missouri, Montana, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, and Washington.


Another 16 states give local school boards the authority to decide whether school staff can carry guns, either explicitly or through legal loopholes, but officials said they didn’t know of any instances of armed teachers in those states.