American Presidents, and Israel

[PoliticalChic]

The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave.

A little more detail fleshing out your thesis, please.

rich coming from you.
i think you're arguing a habitual fondness for israel and habitual hatred of iran.

I dont want us to be slave to either

'Habitual' is far from an accurate description, as it leaves out the rationale behind same.

I 'habitually' lean toward rectitude, and choose the nation which represents democracy and Western values.

You, it seems, are unable to prioritize such concepts, and make your choice based either on a roll of the dice or some inchoate and/or atavistic attribute.

In short, you have never learned either values nor history.

 

[PoliticalChic]

During World War II Johnson joined [adviser Jim] Novy at a small Austin gathering to sell $65,000 in war bonds. According to Gomolak, Novy and Johnson then raised a very "substantial sum for arms for Jewish underground fighters in Palestine." One source cited by the historian reports that "Novy and Johnson had been secretly shipping heavy crates labeled 'Texas Grapefruit' - but containing arms - to Jewish underground 'freedom fighters' in Palestine."

How many Arab women and children did the Zionist terrorists murder with Lyndon's Texas Grapefruits? How much land did Zionists grab?

Defending oneself from attacks is 'murder'?

The murder here is your use of the English language.

 

[georgephillip]

Why begin with 1946???
“…the Philistines did not occupy the coast of Canaan until the twelfth century BCE…”

Jews have been stealing Arab land and water in Palestine over the past century because the Philistines killed Samson in Gaza thousands of years ago, right?

 

[PoliticalChic]

Why begin with 1946???
“…the Philistines did not occupy the coast of Canaan until the twelfth century BCE…”

Jews have been stealing Arab land and water in Palestine over the past century because the Philistines killed Samson in Gaza thousands of years ago, right?

1. When Jews control the Holy Land, all religions get to worship.
Under sharia, Jews could pray at the Wailing Wall—the last remnant of the Temple—only quietly and never sit, even in the heat. Nor were Jews allowed to separate men from women during prayer: the wall was only available for Jewish visitation with permission and under strict guidelines that would not connote independent worship or ownership of the Wall.

2. In 1928, on Yom Kippur, Jews decided to bring benches and chairs to sit while they prayed, resulting in bloody massacres. On August 15 1929, when Jews again marked a holiday by sitting, and also chanted “the Wall is ours,” the Arabs began yet another in a series of bloody massacres. The massacres in several cities culminated in unspeakable atrocities at Hebron.

3. On August 23 and 24, 1929, Hebron became a bloody nightmare. House to house, Arab mobs went, bursting into every room looking for hiding Jews. Religious books and scrolls were burned or torn to shreds. The defenseless Jews were variously beheaded, castrated, their breasts and fingers sliced off, and in some cases their eyes plucked from their sockets. Infant or adult, man or woman—it mattered not. The carnage went on for hours, with the Arab policemen standing down—or joining in. Blood ran in streamlets down the narrow stone staircases outside the buildings. House to house, room by room, the savagery was repeated.

a. Not a single victim was simply killed. Each was mutilated and tortured in accordance with their identities, the specific information provided by local Arabs. The Jewish man who lent money to Arabs was sliced open and the IOUs burned in his body. The Jewish baker’s head was tied to the stove and then baked. A Jewish scholar who had studied Koranic philosophy for years was seized, his cranium cut open, and his brain extracted. Another man was nailed to a door. Some sixty-seven Jews were brutally murdered.

This was the state of relations- long before Hitler ever gained power. Rather than an anomaly, this was one a along line of ongoing massacres.
Edwin Black discussed in his book, “ The Farhud: The Roots of the Arab-Nazi Alliance in the Holocaust.”

 

[ogibillm]

The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave.

A little more detail fleshing out your thesis, please.

rich coming from you.
i think you're arguing a habitual fondness for israel and habitual hatred of iran.

I dont want us to be slave to either

'Habitual' is far from an accurate description, as it leaves out the rationale behind same.

I 'habitually' lean toward rectitude, and choose the nation which represents democracy and Western values.

You, it seems, are unable to prioritize such concepts, and make your choice based either on a roll of the dice or some inchoate and/or atavistic attribute.

In short, you have never learned either values nor history.

a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld; and it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country without odium, sometimes even with popularity, gilding with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation

 

[georgephillip]

Defending oneself from attacks is 'murder'?

Jews were murdering Arabs for their homes, businesses, farm, and bank accounts sixty years ago. Do you and Lyndon have a problem with self-defense, or would that conflict with your support for lynching?

 

[PoliticalChic]

The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave.

A little more detail fleshing out your thesis, please.

rich coming from you.
i think you're arguing a habitual fondness for israel and habitual hatred of iran.

I dont want us to be slave to either

'Habitual' is far from an accurate description, as it leaves out the rationale behind same.

I 'habitually' lean toward rectitude, and choose the nation which represents democracy and Western values.

You, it seems, are unable to prioritize such concepts, and make your choice based either on a roll of the dice or some inchoate and/or atavistic attribute.

In short, you have never learned either values nor history.

a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld; and it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country without odium, sometimes even with popularity, gilding with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation

"Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong."
Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (October 16, 1854),



"Sympathy for the favorite nation..."
See post #24

 

[PoliticalChic]

Defending oneself from attacks is 'murder'?

Jews were murdering Arabs for their homes, businesses, farm, and bank accounts sixty years ago. Do you and Lyndon have a problem with self-defense, or would that conflict with your support for lynching?

"The name Iran means ‘Aryan,’ and was chosen to support a massive Nazi-dominated infrastructure which was ready to provide oil to the Nazis. By the early 1930s, Reza Pahlavi's close ties with Nazi Germany began worrying the Allied states.[8] Germany's modern state and economy highly impressed the Shah, and there were hundreds of Germans involved in every aspect of the state, from setting up factories to building roads, railroads and bridges.[9]" Germany Iran relations - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[ogibillm]

The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave.

A little more detail fleshing out your thesis, please.

rich coming from you.
i think you're arguing a habitual fondness for israel and habitual hatred of iran.

I dont want us to be slave to either

'Habitual' is far from an accurate description, as it leaves out the rationale behind same.

I 'habitually' lean toward rectitude, and choose the nation which represents democracy and Western values.

You, it seems, are unable to prioritize such concepts, and make your choice based either on a roll of the dice or some inchoate and/or atavistic attribute.

In short, you have never learned either values nor history.

a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld; and it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country without odium, sometimes even with popularity, gilding with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation

"Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong."
Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (October 16, 1854),



"Sympathy for the favorite nation..."
See post #24

So what's our common interests with israel in these negotiations with iran? We seem to be seeking a realistic diplomatic solution, bibi seems to be pushing for an increase on tension and a path to armed conflict, in which we would certainly commit ourselves.

I see then an engagement in the conflict desired by israel on their behalf with no clear reason except israel's position as favorite.

Bibi is wrong. Time to part with him.

 

[MisterBeale]

The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave.

A little more detail fleshing out your thesis, please.

It's from the first farewell address.

Usually it is only the wise that learn from history and their fathers.

 

[whitehall]

Statesman Netanyahu makes former community agitator Barry Sotoro Obama look like a petulant kid.

 

[PoliticalChic]

A little more detail fleshing out your thesis, please.

rich coming from you.
i think you're arguing a habitual fondness for israel and habitual hatred of iran.

I dont want us to be slave to either

'Habitual' is far from an accurate description, as it leaves out the rationale behind same.

I 'habitually' lean toward rectitude, and choose the nation which represents democracy and Western values.

You, it seems, are unable to prioritize such concepts, and make your choice based either on a roll of the dice or some inchoate and/or atavistic attribute.

In short, you have never learned either values nor history.

a passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without adequate inducement or justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others, which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill will, and a disposition to retaliate in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld; and it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens (who devote themselves to the favorite nation) facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country without odium, sometimes even with popularity, gilding with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good the base or foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation

"Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong."
Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (October 16, 1854),



"Sympathy for the favorite nation..."
See post #24

So what's our common interests with israel in these negotiations with iran? We seem to be seeking a realistic diplomatic solution, bibi seems to be pushing for an increase on tension and a path to armed conflict, in which we would certainly commit ourselves.

I see then an engagement in the conflict desired by israel on their behalf with no clear reason except israel's position as favorite.

Bibi is wrong. Time to part with him.

Be serious.

What happens in Tehran,stays in Tehran.....
...along with your hands.

 

[MisterBeale]

The Prime Minister of Israel spoke, yesterday, about the relationship between Israel and this nation, and mentioned the help American President's have given to Israel...


He said 'from Harry Truman to Barack Obama.'

It was Truman who showed the leadership that resulted in Israel being recognized at the United Nations.
One may understand the protocol of including the current President, whether deserved or not....but another should not be left out of the honor.
This may be an appropriate time to mention, in this connection, Lyndon Baines Johnson.





1. ".... the Associated Press reported that newly released tapes from US president Lyndon Johnson's White House office showed LBJ's "personal and often emotional connection to Israel."

2. ... the news report does little to reveal the full historical extent of Johnson's actions on behalf of the Jewish people and the State of Israel.... few know about LBJ's actions to rescue hundreds of endangered Jews during the Holocaust - actions that could have thrown him out of Congress and into jail.

3. Historians have revealed that Johnson, while serving as a young congressman in 1938 and 1939, arranged for visas to be supplied to Jews in Warsaw, and oversaw the apparently illegal immigration of hundreds of Jews through the port of Galveston, Texas. A key resource for uncovering LBJ's pro-Jewish activity is the unpublished 1989 doctoral thesis by University of Texas student Louis Gomolak, "Prologue: LBJ's Foreign Affairs Background, 1908-1948." Johnson's activities were confirmed by other historians ...

4. ... he inherited his concern for the Jewish people from his family. His aunt Jessie Johnson Hatcher, a major influence on LBJ, was a member of the Zionist Organization of America.




5. As a young boy, Lyndon watched his politically active grandfather "Big Sam" and father "Little Sam" seek clemency for Leo Frank, the Jewish victim of a blood libel in Atlanta. Frank was lynched by a mob in 1915, and the Ku Klux Klan in Texas threatened to kill the Johnsons. ....Lyndon's family hid in their cellar while his father and uncles stood guard with shotguns on their porch in case of KKK attacks.

a. Johnson's speechwriter later stated, "Johnson often cited Leo Frank's lynching as the source of his opposition to both anti-Semitism and isolationism."




6. Already in 1934 - four years before Chamberlain's Munich sellout to Hitler - Johnson was keenly alert to the dangers of Nazism and presented a book of essays,Nazism: An Assault on Civilization, to the 21-year-old woman he was courting, Claudia Taylor - later known as "Lady Bird" Johnson. It was an incredible engagement present.

7. FIVE DAYS after taking office in 1937, LBJ broke with the "Dixiecrats" and supported an immigration bill that would naturalize illegal aliens, mostly Jews from Lithuania and Poland. In 1938, Johnson was told of a young Austrian Jewish musician who was about to be deported from the United States. With an element of subterfuge, LBJ sent him to the US Consulate in Havana to obtain a residency permit.


8. According to historian James M. Smallwood, Congressman Johnson used legal and sometimes illegal methods to smuggle "hundreds of Jews into Texas, using Galveston as the entry port. Enough money could buy false passports and fake visas in Cuba, Mexico and other Latin American countries.... Johnson smuggled boatloads and planeloads of Jews into Texas. He hid them in the Texas National Youth Administration... Johnson saved at least four or five hundred Jews, possibly more."
A friend in deed - Features - Jerusalem Post




Considering who was mentioned that shouldn't have been, and who wasn't that should have, one can recognize the truth of the old saw...'One only finds justice in the dictionary and the cemetery.'

LBJ is the traitor the stood by and let Israel attack the USS Liberty. If the Premier of Israel didn't mention is name, it was probably a calculated move not to insult the memory of our dead or those loved ones who still remember this vicious attack that has gone unanswered.


Yes, it seems Johnson loves them Jews more than he loves Americans.

1. Your use of 'stood by' is not accurate nor appropriate.

2. But, if LBJ is a traitor with respect to the Liberty incident, what do you surmise would be the correct term for Obama in the light of Iran's hand in the US Embassy Hostages, the Beirut bombing and Khobar towers attack, and his efforts to give them a nuclear weapon?

3. I have a number of bones to pick with Johnson....but not with respect to his helping the Jewish State.

Okay, perhaps you are correct. LBJ may not have been aware that the Liberty was being attacked, when it was being attacked. However, after it was, he did nothing. He accepted the excuse that it was an accident, and steered the investigation in that direction, contrary to all evidence pointing otherwise. The men that were there said there was NO WAY an attack could continue for that long with out them knowing what and who they were attacking. However, the media and the history books will report what every they want to who ever wants to believe otherwise if the establishment will christen the "truth" to be otherwise.

And yes, ALL globalists are traitors, even Obama. Calling one person a traitor, do not excuse the other traitor. All of them are evil and despicable. I thought this was about LBJ. Remember, LBJ put together the Warren commission. Ask yourself why a banker was on the Warren Commission and why the congressional investigation into the assassination rejected the Commission findings. LBJ IS EVIL.


I am an American, I believe in the goodness of American culture. Part of my American culture is the belief in the Bill of rights, I hold them almost sacrosanct. Part of the Bill of right is the belief that government and religion will be separate.

Consequently, the whole notion of a "Jewish State" is, to me, just as silly and abhorrent as an "Islamic State." A Theocracy is a theocracy. It doesn't matter if you make one a democratic theocracy and the other a dictatorship, they both have a basis for religion. If you are an intellectual, and you KNOW the dirty little secrets of what and HOW religion is used to control people and divide people, you would not approve of either.

There is evil and bigotry in the Koran, the Talmud, and the Torah. If you don't know that, you are lying to yourself.

Let's not be be atheists though.


God created all manner of spiritual practices and paths for all people. Why would he create other religions and practices if they were wrong? THEY AREN'T. But to found a nation on any one particular spiritual practice is to invite tyranny, bigotry and disaster. This is exactly what we are seeing as the result of "Zionist" philosophy. The land of Israel and the state of Israel should NEVER have been reestablished. But now that it is, Zionism SHOULD NOT be it's ongoing political goal. Nor should "Israel" be a "Jewish" state if it is to be a democracy. It should be multicultural and all inclusive, just like the United States. This cultural supremacy thing they have going on over there is bigoted, mean, and just plain evil. The United States grew up and realized the whole notion of "manifest destiny" was wrong and evil. We realized the "Monroe doctrine" was bullying. We realized that imperialism was just an excuse to steal other peoples resources. When are the Jews going to realize "Zionism" is just Nazism under another name?

..... if LBJ is a traitor with respect to the Liberty incident, what do you surmise would be the correct term for Obama in the light of Iran's hand in the US Embassy Hostages, the Beirut bombing and Khobar towers attack, and his efforts to give them a nuclear weapon?

First off, your characterization of the Iranian revolution shows a lack of knowledge of how the US and the west has manipulated internal Iranian politics. The American revolution could be characterized with similar statements of "terrorism" Tarring and feathering of loyalists is far more vicious than taking hostages, and dumping of private property that took months to ship to port is far more damaging than anything than the Iranian revolutionaries ever did.

Second, the Beirut bombings were not conclusive proving to be linked to the Iranian government. The Iranian government claims they were the work of Al queda, an American linked terrorist funded outfit. When this same outfit, populated with Saudi nationals bombed the twin towers, we didn't impose sanctions on Saudi Arabia.

Lastly, when you use such hyperbola as, "his efforts to give them a nuclear weapon?" you weaken your whole case beyond anyone even trying to have a rational conversation with you. It's like you are swallowing neo-con MSM CFR propaganda HOOK LINE and SINKER.

This is an international effort to stop the tit for tat clandestine spy vs. spy war that has been going on.

Iran threatens retaliation after 'shooting down' U.S. spy drone in its air space

Read more: Iran shoots down U.S. spy plane Daily Mail Online


Obama IS NOT "giving Iran a nuclear weapon." Where do you get such drivel?


Experts Discuss Framework for a Final Iran Nuclear Agreement
Experts Discuss Framework for a Final Iran Nuclear Agreement Brookings Institution
In his remarks, Einhorn stressed three fundamental requirements for a potential agreement:

1. A final agreement should provide for as much transparency surrounding Iran's nuclear-related activities as possible, including monitoring and other confidence-building measures beyond the IAEA Additional Protocol.
2. Iran’s timeline for nuclear breakout should be lengthened to allow the international community to intervene decisively if Iran is found in violation of agreement protocols.
3. A deal must be accompanied by consensus among the President, the Congress, and Washington's international partners that an attempt by Iran to violate the agreement would be met with a swift and firm international response that may include use of military force.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave.

A little more detail fleshing out your thesis, please.

It's from the first farewell address.

Usually it is only the wise that learn from history and their fathers.

For clarity....your position is that the United States encourage the seventh century savages be encouraged to develop a nuclear bomb, their major ballistic missile program not be covered by the proposed treaty, and if it means the destruction of Israel....so be it?

Yes or no?

 

[MisterBeale]

The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave.

A little more detail fleshing out your thesis, please.

It's from the first farewell address.

Usually it is only the wise that learn from history and their fathers.

For clarity....your position is that the United States encourage the seventh century savages be encouraged to develop a nuclear bomb, their major ballistic missile program not be covered by the proposed treaty, and if it means the destruction of Israel....so be it?

Yes or no?

I don't know what "seventh century savages" you are talking about.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave.

A little more detail fleshing out your thesis, please.

It's from the first farewell address.

Usually it is only the wise that learn from history and their fathers.

For clarity....your position is that the United States encourage the seventh century savages be encouraged to develop a nuclear bomb, their major ballistic missile program not be covered by the proposed treaty, and if it means the destruction of Israel....so be it?

Yes or no?

I don't know what "seventh century savages" you are talking about.

1. Two questions I've asked that you have dodged.

a. .... if LBJ is a traitor with respect to the Liberty incident, what do you surmise would be the correct term for Obama in the light of Iran's hand in the US Embassy Hostages, the Beirut bombing and Khobar towers attack, and his efforts to give them a nuclear weapon?


b. For clarity....your position is that the United States encourage the seventh century savages be encouraged to develop a nuclear bomb, their major ballistic missile program not be covered by the proposed treaty, and if it means the destruction of Israel....so be it?



2. "First off, your characterization of the Iranian revolution shows a lack of knowledge of how the US and the west has manipulated internal Iranian politics."
I haven't 'characterized' the Iranian revolution, but would be happy to compare my knowledge of same with yours.


3. "I don't know what "seventh century savages" you are talking about."
You've gone from disingenuous to totally liar.

 

[MisterBeale]

Likewise, in order for the treaty to be passed, Iran must compromise on the missile issue, it need not be IN the treaty, but it will HAVE to be on the table.

See page 39.
http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/re...einhorn/31-nuclear-armed-iran-einhorn-pdf.pdf

 

[MisterBeale]

I have a migraine and must rest now. I'll not answer any more, you have dodged enough of mine.

 

[PoliticalChic]

11."Lady Bird elaborated, "Jews had been woven into the warp and woof of all [Lyndon's] years." THE PRELUDE to the 1967 war was a terrifying period for Israel, with the US State Department led by the historically unfriendly Dean Rusk urging an evenhanded policy despite Arab threats and acts of aggression. Johnson held no such illusions.

After the war he placed the blame firmly on Egypt: "If a single act of folly was more responsible for this explosion than any other, it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision [by Egypt] that the Strait of Tiran would be closed [to Israeli ships and Israeli-bound cargo]."


12. Kennedy was the first president to approve the sale of defensive US weapons to Israel, specifically Hawk anti-aircraft missiles.

But Johnson approved tanks and fighter jets, all vital after the 1967 war when France imposed a freeze on sales to Israel. "
A friend in deed - Features - Jerusalem Post



Here is Obama betraying two allies at the same time:

" TEL AVIV — The United States has blocked a multi-billion-dollar sale of an Israeli missile defense system to Poland..... David’s Sling has been developed by Israel’s state-owned Rafael Advanced Defense Systems and the U.S. firm Raytheon. The administration has allocated more than $100 million for the system, which underwent initial live-fire testing in 2013.


Poland has sought NATO-interoperable missile defense systems amid the
growing threat from neighboring Russia. In 2009, Washington decided against
developing and deploying the Standard Missile 3 Block 2B interceptor for
Poland.

Instead, L-M has offered the PAC-3 to Poland, said to be more expensive
than David’s Sling. Warsaw has also been examining MBDA’s SAMP/T, deployed
in France and Italy.

Obama was also said to have sabotaged another Israeli defense project.
On May 15, the Israeli daily Maariv said the White House was believed to
have pressured Germany not to agree to a discount for three missile boats to
Israel.

“Jerusalem suspects that this is a ‘punitive measure’ ...." Israeli media Obama blocked sale of David s Sling to Poland - World Tribune World Tribune

 

[MisterBeale]

The nation which indulges toward another an habitual hatred or an habitual fondness is in some degree a slave.

A little more detail fleshing out your thesis, please.

It's from the first farewell address.

Usually it is only the wise that learn from history and their fathers.

For clarity....your position is that the United States encourage the seventh century savages be encouraged to develop a nuclear bomb, their major ballistic missile program not be covered by the proposed treaty, and if it means the destruction of Israel....so be it?

Yes or no?

I don't know what "seventh century savages" you are talking about.

1. Two questions I've asked that you have dodged.

a. .... if LBJ is a traitor with respect to the Liberty incident, what do you surmise would be the correct term for Obama in the light of Iran's hand in the US Embassy Hostages, the Beirut bombing and Khobar towers attack, and his efforts to give them a nuclear weapon?


b. For clarity....your position is that the United States encourage the seventh century savages be encouraged to develop a nuclear bomb, their major ballistic missile program not be covered by the proposed treaty, and if it means the destruction of Israel....so be it?



2. "First off, your characterization of the Iranian revolution shows a lack of knowledge of how the US and the west has manipulated internal Iranian politics."
I haven't 'characterized' the Iranian revolution, but would be happy to compare my knowledge of same with yours.


3. "I don't know what "seventh century savages" you are talking about."
You've gone from disingenuous to totally liar.

I never lie, I'm only well read and immune to propaganda.
The revolution is over
After decades of messianic fervour, Iran is becoming a more mature and modern country, says Oliver August
The revolution is over The Economist
“The government tries to put up controls, but people are well versed in evading them,” says one of Iran’s first bloggers. A lot of effort has gone into trying to mimic China’s strategy of nurturing local websites that can be controlled, such as salam.ir, a search engine. But most of these have failed spectacularly because access to superior foreign competitors is easy. So-called VPNtrepreneurs sell the software and access codes to bypass controls. A 21-year-old wearing cordless headphones says he charges a dollar a month or $10 a year and has 80,000 clients. His day job at an IT company is a cover. Occasionally he pays the cyber-police a few hundred dollars in bribes.


The hunger for free information is fuelled by rising education levels, which are now comparable to those in Western countries. In 2009, 34% of Iranians in the relevant age group went to university. Three years later the number had gone up to 55% and is said to have climbed further since then, mostly thanks to the huge expansion of Azad University, which now has over 100 campuses and 1.5m students. Iran’s cabinet has more members with PhDs from American universities than that of America itself; the president, Hassan Rohani, got his in Scotland. According to SCImago, a Spanish firm that monitors academic journals, Iran’s scientific output has increased by 575% in the past decade. The country also publishes three times more books than all Arab nations combined.


The vastly expanded education system, which makes particular efforts to reach poor and rural families, has acted as a catalyst for independent thinking. The art world has opened up. Film scripts still require approval, but religious themes have faded. Culture is no longer a mere propaganda tool."

That's not a backward nation. The Iranians I've met are more knowledgeable than most Americans.