America Founded as a Christian Nation

[Vandalshandle]

"God, I really tried to set my slaves free, but the devil made me keep them!

Quote what the Bible says about slavery every time it appears in the Bible. Use Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible to locate each and every passage. Post them.

I don't give a rat's ass what the Bible says. if you have any moral compass at all, you will acknowledge that it is evil.

"God, I really tried to set my slaves free, but the devil made me keep them!

Quote what the Bible says about slavery every time it appears in the Bible. Use Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible to locate each and every passage. Post them.

I don't give a rat's ass what the Bible says. if you have any moral compass at all, you will acknowledge that it is evil.

You cannot, by any metric define what's right and what's wrong. See my above response in post # 56. I'd bet dollars against doughnuts that if I came to your house and tossed everything you own that was made in countries that utilize some form of slave labor, you probably wouldn't own a damn thing.

You want to set the bar really high. How high do you set it for yourself? OR do you just want to find fault with Christians when you know that your own soul is troubled? That's a rhetorical question. Don't bother answering it.

I find fault with Christians who self-righteously rationalize slavery by the founding fathers who supposedly created an American country of "Christian values".

And what does that have to do with the thread topic?

I was asked a question, and I answered it. Try to keep up.

 

[Correll]

America is a nation comprised mostly of Christians

We are NOT a Christian nation

This is the kind of typical dumbassery that I find personally offensive. A crackpot joins the discussion to make a point that has already been refuted, but he's too stupid to read the thread and get caught up to speed. THAT was an example of why these boards don't work very well.

Yes, America IS a Christian nation and we've proven it. At the beginning of each of my relevant posts to prove it I am telling posters which posts I have that follow the general narrative. That way, even with idiocy like you just posted, people can find the facts IF they are so inclined.

Other than that, I can't fix stupid.

You are a sad representation of a US Citizen

Our founders weep that you have missed the whole purpose of our democracy. Religious freedom

Freedom from state sponsored religion

Your inability to make a supporting argument is obvious to everyone. That is you being a poor debater.


That you try to cover for that, by insulting people, is you being a jerk.


Do you think that you can refute his claims? If so, why are you afraid to do that?


If not, why not?



Freedom from state religion, does not mean this is not a Christian nation.

 

[Vandalshandle]

America is a nation comprised mostly of Christians

We are NOT a Christian nation

This is the kind of typical dumbassery that I find personally offensive. A crackpot joins the discussion to make a point that has already been refuted, but he's too stupid to read the thread and get caught up to speed. THAT was an example of why these boards don't work very well.

Yes, America IS a Christian nation and we've proven it. At the beginning of each of my relevant posts to prove it I am telling posters which posts I have that follow the general narrative. That way, even with idiocy like you just posted, people can find the facts IF they are so inclined.

Other than that, I can't fix stupid.

You are a sad representation of a US Citizen

Our founders weep that you have missed the whole purpose of our democracy. Religious freedom

Freedom from state sponsored religion

Your inability to make a supporting argument is obvious to everyone. That is you being a poor debater.


That you try to cover for that, by insulting people, is you being a jerk.


Do you think that you can refute his claims? If so, why are you afraid to do that?


If not, why not?



Freedom from state religion, does not mean this is not a Christian nation.

I guess that you win the debate by telling RW that his insulting people makes him a "jerk".

 

[Lysistrata]

I also do not understand what some declaration that the United States was founded as a Christian nation would accomplish.

It means no gun control and heavy drug control. Marijuana remains a schedule one drug. We build the most powerful nuclear weapons in the world (got anti-matter bomb?) for world peace and to blow up that scary giant asteroid coming to end it all. It means abortion and homosexuality are illegal. That's not all, but it's a good start.

Nothing that you mention has anything to do with any belief in Jesus, either as messiah or as teacher, and, thus, has nothing to do with the Christian faith. BTW: The U.S. is a 325+ million person country that is very racially, religiously, and culturally diverse. You belong only to a very small segment of our population that adheres to cults. There are millions more of everyday Americans who are not associated with your dogma.

 

[Correll]

Quote what the Bible says about slavery every time it appears in the Bible. Use Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible to locate each and every passage. Post them.

I don't give a rat's ass what the Bible says. if you have any moral compass at all, you will acknowledge that it is evil.

Quote what the Bible says about slavery every time it appears in the Bible. Use Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible to locate each and every passage. Post them.

I don't give a rat's ass what the Bible says. if you have any moral compass at all, you will acknowledge that it is evil.

You cannot, by any metric define what's right and what's wrong. See my above response in post # 56. I'd bet dollars against doughnuts that if I came to your house and tossed everything you own that was made in countries that utilize some form of slave labor, you probably wouldn't own a damn thing.

You want to set the bar really high. How high do you set it for yourself? OR do you just want to find fault with Christians when you know that your own soul is troubled? That's a rhetorical question. Don't bother answering it.

I find fault with Christians who self-righteously rationalize slavery by the founding fathers who supposedly created an American country of "Christian values".

And what does that have to do with the thread topic?

I was asked a question, and I answered it. Try to keep up.

Sooo, are you admitting that it had nothing to do with the thread topic? I asked the question, because I was trying to "keep up" your lack of a response was not helpful at all.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

And even if you proved somehow that the majority of founders were not "Really" Christians, that would not mean that they did not craft the government and nation they were making, to be Christian.

The founders whether Christian or not, did not ‘make’ or try to ‘make’ a Christian nation. They sought to create a secular nation with no preference or rejection of Religion as one of its ideals.

 

[Correll]

America is a nation comprised mostly of Christians

We are NOT a Christian nation

This is the kind of typical dumbassery that I find personally offensive. A crackpot joins the discussion to make a point that has already been refuted, but he's too stupid to read the thread and get caught up to speed. THAT was an example of why these boards don't work very well.

Yes, America IS a Christian nation and we've proven it. At the beginning of each of my relevant posts to prove it I am telling posters which posts I have that follow the general narrative. That way, even with idiocy like you just posted, people can find the facts IF they are so inclined.

Other than that, I can't fix stupid.

You are a sad representation of a US Citizen

Our founders weep that you have missed the whole purpose of our democracy. Religious freedom

Freedom from state sponsored religion

Your inability to make a supporting argument is obvious to everyone. That is you being a poor debater.


That you try to cover for that, by insulting people, is you being a jerk.


Do you think that you can refute his claims? If so, why are you afraid to do that?


If not, why not?



Freedom from state religion, does not mean this is not a Christian nation.

I guess that you win the debate by telling RW that his insulting people makes him a "jerk".

No, I will "win" the debate when RW tries to refute Rockwells claims, and finds that he cannot.


NOt within his current ideological framework.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Well, it is all good, I guess. Some people claim that this is a Christian nation, even though it is also full of Jews, Muslims, and even Buddhists. Calling it that does not have any more authority than my calling it an atheist nation, so Meh.....

 

[Vandalshandle]

I don't give a rat's ass what the Bible says. if you have any moral compass at all, you will acknowledge that it is evil.

I don't give a rat's ass what the Bible says. if you have any moral compass at all, you will acknowledge that it is evil.

You cannot, by any metric define what's right and what's wrong. See my above response in post # 56. I'd bet dollars against doughnuts that if I came to your house and tossed everything you own that was made in countries that utilize some form of slave labor, you probably wouldn't own a damn thing.

You want to set the bar really high. How high do you set it for yourself? OR do you just want to find fault with Christians when you know that your own soul is troubled? That's a rhetorical question. Don't bother answering it.

I find fault with Christians who self-righteously rationalize slavery by the founding fathers who supposedly created an American country of "Christian values".

And what does that have to do with the thread topic?

I was asked a question, and I answered it. Try to keep up.

Sooo, are you admitting that it had nothing to do with the thread topic? I asked the question, because I was trying to "keep up" your lack of a response was not helpful at all.

I'm not here to help you Correll.

 

[Correll]

And even if you proved somehow that the majority of founders were not "Really" Christians, that would not mean that they did not craft the government and nation they were making, to be Christian.

The founders whether Christian or not, did not ‘make’ or try to ‘make’ a Christian nation. They sought to create a secular nation with no preference or rejection of Religion as one of its ideals.

No, they didn't. They sought to avoid an Established Church.


THat you try to spin that as "rejection of Religion" is not reasonable.



I challenge you to support your conclusion, with ANYTHING.

 

[Correll]

Well, it is all good, I guess. Some people claim that this is a Christian nation, even though it is also full of Jews, Muslims, and even Buddhists. Calling it that does not have any more authority than my calling it an atheist nation, so Meh.....

That is a nice Assertion of your position.


Now, explain why the history of the nation being vastly majority Christian, does not refute your assertion.

 

[Correll]

You cannot, by any metric define what's right and what's wrong. See my above response in post # 56. I'd bet dollars against doughnuts that if I came to your house and tossed everything you own that was made in countries that utilize some form of slave labor, you probably wouldn't own a damn thing.

You want to set the bar really high. How high do you set it for yourself? OR do you just want to find fault with Christians when you know that your own soul is troubled? That's a rhetorical question. Don't bother answering it.

I find fault with Christians who self-righteously rationalize slavery by the founding fathers who supposedly created an American country of "Christian values".

And what does that have to do with the thread topic?

I was asked a question, and I answered it. Try to keep up.

Sooo, are you admitting that it had nothing to do with the thread topic? I asked the question, because I was trying to "keep up" your lack of a response was not helpful at all.

I'm not here to help you Correll.

A figure of speech.

Was your post about finding fault with Christians, made in reference to the thread topic? And if so, how?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

I cited Winthrop as he articulated why the colonists were coming here and the principles upon which we were establishing this "shining city on a hill."

Above, Winthrop is “establishing” “shining city on a hill. That certainly can be construed as what you meant by ‘founding’ a Christian Nation.

Below, I guess you are explaining that Winthrop and his Christianity has nothing to do with founding a nation on Christian principles.

I never claimed Winthrop was anything

Which Porter Rockwell am I corresponding with?

I said the man preached a sermon. I have not said he is or is not a founder.

 

[Correll]

Oh, man I see how this is going. The libs know that they cannot refute the OP, so they will just bog the thread down in insanely boring historical trivia and be insulting assholes until they get the thread locked.


ON some level, they all know that America is a Christian nation, and that they cannot hope to refute that point, but they can't admit it, nor do they even want to see it discussed.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

America is a nation comprised mostly of Christians

We are NOT a Christian nation

This is the kind of typical dumbassery that I find personally offensive. A crackpot joins the discussion to make a point that has already been refuted, but he's too stupid to read the thread and get caught up to speed. THAT was an example of why these boards don't work very well.

Yes, America IS a Christian nation and we've proven it. At the beginning of each of my relevant posts to prove it I am telling posters which posts I have that follow the general narrative. That way, even with idiocy like you just posted, people can find the facts IF they are so inclined.

Other than that, I can't fix stupid.

You are a sad representation of a US Citizen

Our founders weep that you have missed the whole purpose of our democracy. Religious freedom

Freedom from state sponsored religion

America is a Republic; I support religious Freedom to the point that I am not judging you for whatever it is you believe in and would fight to the death for your Right to believe and say it. You wouldn't do likewise because you just proved you won't. And you think I'm the bad representation???

If you could get it done by popularity vote, you'd have me drawn and quartered for not kissing your ass.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

You cannot, by any metric define what's right and what's wrong. See my above response in post # 56. I'd bet dollars against doughnuts that if I came to your house and tossed everything you own that was made in countries that utilize some form of slave labor, you probably wouldn't own a damn thing.

You want to set the bar really high. How high do you set it for yourself? OR do you just want to find fault with Christians when you know that your own soul is troubled? That's a rhetorical question. Don't bother answering it.

I find fault with Christians who self-righteously rationalize slavery by the founding fathers who supposedly created an American country of "Christian values".

And what does that have to do with the thread topic?

I was asked a question, and I answered it. Try to keep up.

Sooo, are you admitting that it had nothing to do with the thread topic? I asked the question, because I was trying to "keep up" your lack of a response was not helpful at all.

I'm not here to help you Correll.

Apparently you are here to troll this thread and show us why the left should be allowed to turn America into an atheistic democracy.

 

[rightwinger]

So, near as I can tell, the primary defense from the Left to Rockwell's challenge, is to argue that the Founders were not really Christians.


That is not a very good defense.


THe bar for your judgement being stronger than another person's self identification is very high.


And even if you proved somehow that the majority of founders were not "Really" Christians, that would not mean that they did not craft the government and nation they were making, to be Christian.

Nobody denies most were Christian

But those Christians demanded a non sectarian Government

 

[Correll]

So, near as I can tell, the primary defense from the Left to Rockwell's challenge, is to argue that the Founders were not really Christians.


That is not a very good defense.


THe bar for your judgement being stronger than another person's self identification is very high.


And even if you proved somehow that the majority of founders were not "Really" Christians, that would not mean that they did not craft the government and nation they were making, to be Christian.

Nobody denies most were Christian

But those Christians demanded a non sectarian Government

Vandal certainly seems to be. Others have also implied as much. They are all being cagey about it, for obvious reasons.


I agree. That the Christian founders "demanded" a non sectarian Government.


I agree completely. And indeed, will go further and state that you said it BETTER than I did.


A government that does not take sides in religious conflicts or rivalries, is what you need to have


FREEDOM OF RELIGION.


Excellent job, RW. I knew you had it in you.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation. Be forewarned, I will not respond to posts that are more than twelve or so paragraphs. If we are going to discuss the issue, it has to be a few things at a time. Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith”

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

“We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come

So what? It was also founded as a slaver nation, and a racist nation, and a misogynist nation. Then, we benefited from intellectual and scientific enlightenment and left those things behind.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

THat you try to spin that as "rejection of Religion" is not reasonable.

I guess plain English is too complicated for you.

I wrote that the founders “sought to create a secular nation with no preference or rejection of religion as an ideal”.

Please try to explain how in the hell you could ever interpret that lofty ideal of pure governmental neutrality on the practice of religion to be an attempt by me to spin that as a “rejection” of religion by our founding fathers.

Do you understand what I wrote, now?