America Founded as a Christian Nation

[Lysistrata]

The U.S. was founded on the principle of having no established religion. I was once told by a noted Christian author and retired Episcopalian bishop something that I will never forget about aiming forward and finding the truth. I once consulted with a Buddhist monk at the nearby temple about how best to help a dear friend who was a Buddhist refugee from Laos who was in trouble. I have received from a monk the string bound upon my wrist in prayer and wore it until it fell off of me. If I have a moral question and want to speak with someone who might inject some wisdom into the situation, I may like to sit down the Rabbi Harold Kushner and discuss it

Wisdom and faith belong to everybody on this earth.

 

[Correll]

THat you try to spin that as "rejection of Religion" is not reasonable.

I guess plain English is too complicated for you.

I wrote that the founders “sought to create a secular nation with no preference or rejection of religion as an ideal”.

Please try to explain how in the hell you could ever interpret that lofty ideal of pure governmental neutrality on the practice of religion to be an attempt by me to spin that as a “rejection” of religion by our founding fathers.

Do you understand what I wrote, now?

I understood what you said fine. And you are the one that cut your own words, so that you could lie about what you just said.


You are trying to troll this thread, because on some level, you understand that you cannot refute the points of the OP, yet are not honest enough to admit it.


So, your goal is to fill it with static, until you manage to get it locked.


That is what liberals do, when confronted by the Contest of Ideas, today.

 

[Correll]

The U.S. was founded on the principle of having no established religion. I was once told by a noted Christian author and retired Episcopalian bishop something that I will never forget about aiming forward and finding the truth. I once consulted with a Buddhist monk at the nearby temple about how best to help a dear friend who was a Buddhist refugee from Laos who was in trouble. I have received from a monk the string bound upon my wrist in prayer and wore it until it fell off of me. If I have a moral question and want to speak with someone who might inject some wisdom into the situation, I may like to sit down the Rabbi Harold Kushner and discuss it

Wisdom and faith belong to everybody on this earth.

The op is about the nation. Not having an established religion, or more to the point, an established CHURCH, does not mean the nation is not, or was not, Christian.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

So, near as I can tell, the primary defense from the Left to Rockwell's challenge, is to argue that the Founders were not really Christians.


That is not a very good defense.


THe bar for your judgement being stronger than another person's self identification is very high.


And even if you proved somehow that the majority of founders were not "Really" Christians, that would not mean that they did not craft the government and nation they were making, to be Christian.

Nobody denies most were Christian

But those Christians demanded a non sectarian Government

I already answered that criticism in the first two postings on this thread. Great straw man argument.

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." Proverbs 18 : 13

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So, near as I can tell, the primary defense from the Left to Rockwell's challenge, is to argue that the Founders were not really Christians.


That is not a very good defense.


THe bar for your judgement being stronger than another person's self identification is very high.


And even if you proved somehow that the majority of founders were not "Really" Christians, that would not mean that they did not craft the government and nation they were making, to be Christian.

Nobody denies most were Christian

But those Christians demanded a non sectarian Government

I already answered that criticism in the first two postings on this thread. Great straw man argument.

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." Proverbs 18 : 13

You're really not getting this.

Nobody gives a shit what a religious handbook says. That's the entire point. By design.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Due to popular request I am starting a thread covering the fact that America was begun as a Christian nation. Be forewarned, I will not respond to posts that are more than twelve or so paragraphs. If we are going to discuss the issue, it has to be a few things at a time. Bottom line: America was founded as a Christian nation.

As soon as one says that the atheists and other non-believers will start with their lies and straw man arguments. They will tell you that I just said America was founded as a theocracy. AMERICA WAS NOT FOUNDED AS A THEOCRACY. IT WAS FOUNDED AS A REPUBLIC BASED UPON CHRISTIAN PRINCIPLES.

Politics is nothing more than religion in action. Our sense of right and wrong are all predicated on moral values and we got from biblical precepts. The very first governing document of the New World was the Mayflower Compact. It states:

In the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the loyal subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France, and Ireland, King, defender of the Faith, etc.


Having undertaken, for the Glory of God, and “advancements of the Christian faith”

Okay, I’m well aware that St. Augustine is the oldest city in the U.S, the Spaniards were there before the colonists and that other colonists preceded those on the Mayflower. That Mayflower Compact was the first GOVERNING document of the New World. Colonization and founding are synonymous.

The First Charter of Virginia of 1606 stated:

“We greatly commending, and graciously accepting of, their Desires for the Furtherance of so noble a Work, which may, by the Providence of Almighty God, hereafter tend to the Glory his Divine Majesty, in propagating of Christian Religion to such People, as yet live in Darkness and miserable Ignorance of the true Knowledge and Worship of God, and may in time bring the Infidels and Savages, living in those parts, to human Civility, to a settled and quiet government.”

Similar language attesting to our Christian roots during this period would be the Second Charter of Virginia of 1609, Third Charter of Virginia 1611 – 1612, The Charter of New England 1620, Ordinances For Virginia, July 24, 1621, The Charter of Massachusetts Bay 1629, and I will add more to the chorological order each time I post.

In 1630, John Winthrop delivered a sermon aboard the Arbella as it sailed toward the New World. That sermon has been cited by U.S. statesmen including, but not limited to JFK and Ronald Reagan. It defines WHO the colonists were and what their objective was in the New World. Any sermon being quoted by American politicians 300 years later deserves to be examined. Here is a link to it and it is a must read if you want to add intelligent commentary to this thread:

https://www.casa-arts.org/cms/lib/PA01925203/Centricity/Domain/50/A Model of Christian Charity.pdf More to come

So what? It was also founded as a slaver nation, and a racist nation, and a misogynist nation. Then, we benefited from intellectual and scientific enlightenment and left those things behind.

What a cop out! Yeah, that slave B.S. seems to really work wonders for your argument IF those who wail about it were not loyal to the political party that perpetuated it. The REAL reason people like you moan about it: you believe you can put whites on the defensive over it. It's your Ace in the hole until it got exposed for what it is.

All your other B.S. asked and answered on this thread. It has no merit. Read the thread.

 

[Porter Rockwell]

So, near as I can tell, the primary defense from the Left to Rockwell's challenge, is to argue that the Founders were not really Christians.


That is not a very good defense.


THe bar for your judgement being stronger than another person's self identification is very high.


And even if you proved somehow that the majority of founders were not "Really" Christians, that would not mean that they did not craft the government and nation they were making, to be Christian.

Nobody denies most were Christian

But those Christians demanded a non sectarian Government

I already answered that criticism in the first two postings on this thread. Great straw man argument.

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." Proverbs 18 : 13

You're really not getting this.

Nobody gives a shit what a religious handbook says. That's the entire point. By design.

Actually nobody gives a rip what your uneducated ass thinks. You came here to be a blowhard and jump in the middle of a conversation without reading the thread. That doesn't speak too highly of your IQ or your character.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yeah, that slave B.S. seems to really work wonders for your argument IF those who wail about it were not loyal to the political party that perpetuated it

That is so fucking stupid. I didn't read the rest of your nonsense. You are embarrassing yourself.

 

[Correll]

Yeah, that slave B.S. seems to really work wonders for your argument IF those who wail about it were not loyal to the political party that perpetuated it

That is so fucking stupid. I didn't read the rest of your nonsense. You are embarrassing yourself.

OMG, your trolling is completely transparent. Do you even think you are fooling anyone?

 

[Lysistrata]

The U.S. was founded on the principle of having no established religion. I was once told by a noted Christian author and retired Episcopalian bishop something that I will never forget about aiming forward and finding the truth. I once consulted with a Buddhist monk at the nearby temple about how best to help a dear friend who was a Buddhist refugee from Laos who was in trouble. I have received from a monk the string bound upon my wrist in prayer and wore it until it fell off of me. If I have a moral question and want to speak with someone who might inject some wisdom into the situation, I may like to sit down the Rabbi Harold Kushner and discuss it

Wisdom and faith belong to everybody on this earth.

The op is about the nation. Not having an established religion, or more to the point, an established CHURCH, does not mean the nation is not, or was not, Christian.

There is no reason to declare our nation as christian or not. There is no purpose to this. Nations do not have a religion. Individual people do. You may attend the house of worship of your choice.

 

[Correll]

The U.S. was founded on the principle of having no established religion. I was once told by a noted Christian author and retired Episcopalian bishop something that I will never forget about aiming forward and finding the truth. I once consulted with a Buddhist monk at the nearby temple about how best to help a dear friend who was a Buddhist refugee from Laos who was in trouble. I have received from a monk the string bound upon my wrist in prayer and wore it until it fell off of me. If I have a moral question and want to speak with someone who might inject some wisdom into the situation, I may like to sit down the Rabbi Harold Kushner and discuss it

Wisdom and faith belong to everybody on this earth.

The op is about the nation. Not having an established religion, or more to the point, an established CHURCH, does not mean the nation is not, or was not, Christian.

There is no reason to declare our nation as christian or not. There is no purpose to this. Nations do not have a religion. Individual people do. You may attend the house of worship of your choice.

YOu might not see a purpose to it. It is certain that the person who started the thread, titled "America founded as a Christian nation" disagrees. Considering the strong opposition to the op from many, I suspect they can see some possible "purpose" to it too. One(s) that they oppose.

 

[Lysistrata]

The U.S. was founded on the principle of having no established religion. I was once told by a noted Christian author and retired Episcopalian bishop something that I will never forget about aiming forward and finding the truth. I once consulted with a Buddhist monk at the nearby temple about how best to help a dear friend who was a Buddhist refugee from Laos who was in trouble. I have received from a monk the string bound upon my wrist in prayer and wore it until it fell off of me. If I have a moral question and want to speak with someone who might inject some wisdom into the situation, I may like to sit down the Rabbi Harold Kushner and discuss it

Wisdom and faith belong to everybody on this earth.

The op is about the nation. Not having an established religion, or more to the point, an established CHURCH, does not mean the nation is not, or was not, Christian.

There is no reason to declare our nation as christian or not. There is no purpose to this. Nations do not have a religion. Individual people do. You may attend the house of worship of your choice.

YOu might not see a purpose to it. It is certain that the person who started the thread, titled "America founded as a Christian nation" disagrees. Considering the strong opposition to the op from many, I suspect they can see some possible "purpose" to it too. One(s) that they oppose.

I cannot see any possible purpose to it. Even if there is a segment of the population that follows some division of the Christian faith, there are millions of others who don't. Moreover, some Christians are rejecting other Christians at the southern border. Do you think that someone who is named Maria or Jesus it a non-Christian?

 

[Porter Rockwell]

Yeah, that slave B.S. seems to really work wonders for your argument IF those who wail about it were not loyal to the political party that perpetuated it

That is so fucking stupid. I didn't read the rest of your nonsense. You are embarrassing yourself.

AMERICA IS WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION

This is a continuation of posts 1 , 2, 7, 17, 35, 39, 56, 91 and 109

What is so stupid is that trolls jump on threads, sling skeet and don't have the common courtesy to see if their point has been answered. So, I have to keep repeating the same points and that is a waste of my time; it makes for a long and cumbersome thread and the points are never made and we never move forward. You're stupid to think I'll play along.

"A nation is a stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, history, ethnicity, or psychological make-up manifested in a common culture."

Nation - Wikipedia

Our nation was built on those things that constitute that definition. Putting people from every corner of the earth, representing every race, color, creed, political persuasion, sexual persuasion, and religion into one big melting pot is not a nation. It is a recipe for disaster.

America was founded by white people who used the Bible as the basis for their system of jurisprudence - our history of articulating good from bad, right from wrong, just from unjust.

Seventy five years ago you could look at an American and you would know what he was, much the same way we can look at the Chinese, Japanese, North Korean, etc. today and know what they are. We were a homogeneous people.

As a homogeneous people, we shared common values. We valued the sanctity of life; we developed a belief in unalienable Rights - Rights that were so fundamental they were ruled above the law by our courts; we cherished Liberty. We had certain limitations. Unlike the Muslims, women were put on a pedestal, not in the closet. We had a very distinct outlook on things like fair play.

Today, the liberals control America. Our courtrooms are controlled by judges who were trained in law schools accredited by the American Bar Association (ABA.) The ABA is the most liberal organization in the United States - slightly left of Marxism. The over-all numerical advantage in Congress goes to the Democrats. Many Republicans are RINOs and neither side really supports the Constitution as it was originally written and intended.

Presidents have become figureheads and none of them in my lifetime were knowledgeable about the Bible. With Congress being predominantly Democrats, then it is Democrats that have to step up to the plate and answer for the status quo.

Everything from immigration laws to restrictions on our unalienable Rights lie at the feet of the people who are rejecting our culture and history in favor of a multicultural society. These non-believers who have dominated the political arena for the last two generations have been in charge as America has gone down the toilet. The youth are on drugs (and it is the non-believers who advocate for liberal drug laws.) Americans consume over 80 percent of the world's opioid supply; we have the highest number of people in prisons both in raw numbers and per capita than the rest of the world; America's children are diagnosed with mental disorders in numbers higher than any nation on the planet.

If you follow the downfall of America, it's downfall can be measured by the number of laws and court decisions that have tried to exclude any mention of our cultural values and that is because those values are tied to the Bible. Though not a big fan of this guy, I feel his input is invaluable on this issue, so I'm leaving links for those who want to get serious:

America's Godly Heritage (B01)

Keys to Good Government (DVD03)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000S2OFHE/?tag=ff0d01-20

 

[NotfooledbyW]

THat you try to spin that as "rejection of Religion" is not reasonable.

I guess plain English is too complicated for you.

I wrote that the founders “sought to create a secular nation with no preference or rejection of religion as an ideal”.

Please try to explain how in the hell you could ever interpret that lofty ideal of pure governmental neutrality on the practice of religion to be an attempt by me to spin that as a “rejection” of religion by our founding fathers.

Do you understand what I wrote, now?

I understood what you said fine. And you are the one that cut your own words, so that you could lie about what you just said.


You are trying to troll this thread, because on some level, you understand that you cannot refute the points of the OP, yet are not honest enough to admit it.


So, your goal is to fill it with static, until you manage to get it locked.


That is what liberals do, when confronted by the Contest of Ideas, today.

Why not simply explain how you arrived at your conclusion that my point that our founders were neutral on religion’s relationship to an established ideal government was an attempt by my to our founders rejected religion.

if you understand what I wrote then you lied about what I wrote.

Have it your way.

 

[Bezukhov]

America can call itself a "Christian Nation" all it wants. In the end it doesn't mean diddly squat.

Behold, the nations are as a drop of a bucket, and are counted as the small dust of the balance: behold, he taketh up the isles as a very little thing
Isaiah 40:15

 

[Questioner]

I'm tempted to argue that the state law (Common law in most states) is quite overtly "religious" in its founding principles, not a direct copy of the Bible, but most definitely based on "religious" principles, such as the Golden Rule (respect for people, families, property, and so forth) and having developed from older legal systems, such as Rome, Exodus, and others which acknowledged notions such as property rights, personal autonomy, and so forth (which the Biblical 10 Commands in fact did, regardless of what others want to say about the Old Testament or the national government of Iron Age Israel; that's a subject for another time entirely). This makes ideoloiges such as Marxism or Communism (which want to abolish private property) highly antithetical to it, or atheistic ideologies which are nihilistic or founded on some vein of "might makes right" or "survival of the fittest" (this includes fascism or totalitarianism in general).

The Federal Constitution is something of a different ballpark.

Regardless, in practice, what it was or supposedly "was" at the time of the founding is irrelevant in relation to the actual Constitutional process, such as the amending of it; the potential for changing it was definitely intended.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The current crop of Democrats are opposed to Christian principles across the board.

Please be specific: What Christian principles are the current crop of Democrats opposed to?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I never claimed Winthrop was anything

I pulled the name from your sloppy dissertation. Why did you cite Winthrop then? For a allegedly being a well educated man you sure are sloppy with your language and arguments.

so far Jefferson believed Jesus was a great moral teacher and nothing more. And now a true religious Christian leader Winthrop had nothing to do with the founding.

I thought I’d find a challenge here.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Correll, post: 23872436

I understood what you said fine. And you are the one that cut your own words, so that you could lie about what you just said.

What words did I cut?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The op is about the nation. Not having an established religion, or more to the point, an established CHURCH, does not mean the nation is not, or was not, Christian.

The OP told me that if one believes only that Jesus was a great moral teacher but rejects the hocus-pocus of Christianity then that person is a Christian. Does that match your definition of being a Christian?