A Year Since MH-17 Tragedy

[Stratford57]

On July, 17 it will be exactly a year since the flight MH-17 has been intercepted by a rocket and the Malaysian Boeing with almost 300 people on its board crashed. And after a year we still have as much information about it as the first few days.

1. The communications between the pilots and the Ukrainian air traffic controllers have never been published. In all other cases the communications have been published same or the next day after the crash.
2. “Irrefutable evidence” of who has shot the Boeing, which Obama has been claiming to have, has never been presented.

All above sounds like everybody, who has access to the true information about the reasons and the causers of the tragedy [Obama and official Kiev] , are not interested for the truth to come out. Why? May be because it contradicts their geopolitical games?…

Obama is so arrogant to think that he is so great and all the world is so damn to believe his words automatically without any evidence.

 

[indiajo]

On July, 17 it will be exactly a year since the flight MH-17 has been intercepted by a rocket and the Malaysian Boeing with almost 300 people on its board crashed. And after a year we still have as much information about it as the first few days.

1. The communications between the pilots and the Ukrainian air traffic controllers have never been published. In all other cases the communications have been published same or the next day after the crash.
2. “Irrefutable evidence” of who has shot the Boeing, which Obama has been claiming to have, has never been presented.

All above sounds like everybody, who has access to the true information about the reasons and the causers of the tragedy [Obama and official Kiev] , are not interested for the truth to come out. Why? May be because it contradicts their geopolitical games?…

Obama is so arrogant to think that he is so great and all the world is so damn to believe his words automatically without any evidence.

I think he has some other problems presently.
One is possibly to find a suitable home for Poroshenko, after all this will be the next Ukrainian president leaving the country by a nightly flight, this time direction west, after the fascist mercenaries, hired and trained by Academi, now turn their guns against their master.

Karma is bitch.

 

[Camp]

Today is anniversary of Russian linked rebels with Russian help murdered plane load of innocent people

de.storyclash.com/Field-of-death-Unraveling-the-mystery-of-MH17-4424195

 

[Camp]

Russia will not allow UN to investigate with a tribunal. They are only country to veto it. Like giving valid endorsement to Crimea annexation, Russia stands alone. To this day Crimea is not looked as a real country that had a real election, and to this day and beyond Russia will be blamed for murder of airline passengers by shooting down MH-17 over Ukraine.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-33710088

 

[Stratford57]

Russia has vetoed a draft of a UN Security Council resolution calling for an international tribunal on the crash of the Malaysian Airlines MH17 flight over eastern Ukraine last July and classifying the plane’s downing as a threat to peace and security.

Despite the veto, Moscow is ready to assist the investigation into the reasons for the Malaysian Boeing 777 crash, Russian UN envoy Vitaly Churkin said.

“Russia stands ready to cooperate in the conduct of a full independent and objective investigation of the reasons and circumstances of the crash,” he said.

Russia vetoes MH17 tribunal draft at UN Security Council RT News

The US, which has the best intelligence gathering capabilities on earth, is trying to deny justice by refusing to release a full intelligence assessment of the MH17 case, Daniel McAdams, executive director of the Ron Paul Institute told RT.

RT: Russia's UN envoy Vitaly Churkin explained the legal reasons for the veto. But US ambassador Samantha Power's message was very different. She has almost put all the blame on Russia. Why such a difference in stance here? Why is there such a different viewpoint?

Daniel McAdams:I think just watching Ambassador Power’s reaction to the expected veto shows why the veto was made in the first place. It is a pure propaganda ploy on the part of the US and those who are towing the US line on this. She essentially says: By vetoing this extraordinary proposal just confirms that Russia is guilty of the shooting. If you read between the lines- that is what she is saying. It’s just unbelievable, and… it’s clearly being used for propaganda purposes. We haven’t even seen the final report yet. Why would you go to the lengths to do something totally unusual like this?

RT: So now we know the result of the vote. What reaction can we expect from the international community?

DM:The countries that tow the US line will try to use this as further proof. But if you want to talk about what the Ambassador said:“Russia is trying to deny justice.”… We know that somebody did it: It was Russia, Ukraine or the separatists, it was an accident, or it was on purpose. But it isn’t [considered] unusual that this proposal was drafted by Ukraine, which is one of the suspects in the crime. It must be unprecedented in criminal history to have one of the suspects draft a proposal like this.

Why does the US refuse to release full intelligence assessment of MH17 plane crash RT Op-Edge

 

[Camp]

Ron Paul is a nobody that at one time was a wanna be important guy that America rejected years ago. He is viewed by most who pay attention to fringe radical elements as a hopeless isolationist. His spokesperson for his so called institute is a person of no meaningful stature. Just another commentator with a radical agenda.
No excuses you make will work to change peoples minds. Veto of the UN Tribunal means Russia has something to hide.

 

[Tehon]

Ron Paul is a nobody that at one time was a wanna be important guy that America rejected years ago. He is viewed by most who pay attention to fringe radical elements as a hopeless isolationist. His spokesperson for his so called institute is a person of no meaningful stature. Just another commentator with a radical agenda.
No excuses you make will work to change peoples minds. Veto of the UN Tribunal means Russia has something to hide.

Putin is absolutely correct in his veto. He has already been convicted in the court of public opinion with zero evidence presented by his accusers. We have yet to see the report on the incident but it appears that it will also point in the direction of Russia without providing evidence. Would there be an expectation of a fair trial in a legal setting? I don't think so. Being that a veto by Russia was a given, it would seem to me that Mr. McAdams is correct in his assessment that the resolution is a mere propaganda stunt. If we are going to prosecute this case in public, as the West has done, the least they can do is provide some evidence that their accusations against Russia have merit.
Your attempt to disparage Ron Paul and Daniel McAdams is a huge fail and calls attention to the weakness of your argument..... such that it is. Radical agenda?

 

[Camp]

Ron Paul is a nobody that at one time was a wanna be important guy that America rejected years ago. He is viewed by most who pay attention to fringe radical elements as a hopeless isolationist. His spokesperson for his so called institute is a person of no meaningful stature. Just another commentator with a radical agenda.
No excuses you make will work to change peoples minds. Veto of the UN Tribunal means Russia has something to hide.

Putin is absolutely correct in his veto. He has already been convicted in the court of public opinion with zero evidence presented by his accusers. We have yet to see the report on the incident but it appears that it will also point in the direction of Russia without providing evidence. Would there be an expectation of a fair trial in a legal setting? I don't think so. Being that a veto by Russia was a given, it would seem to me that Mr. McAdams is correct in his assessment that the resolution is a mere propaganda stunt. If we are going to prosecute this case in public, as the West has done, the least they can do is provide some evidence that their accusations against Russia have merit.
Your attempt to disparage Ron Paul and Daniel McAdams is a huge fail and calls attention to the weakness of your argument..... such that it is. Radical agenda?

The link I provided in post #3 offers plenty of evidence. My so called attempt to disparage Ron Paul is simply stating facts that you do not want to accept. He tried to be an important guy here in America and failed. I never heard of Daniel McAdams. These men are not leaders in America. They are just guys who make a living out of talking. They have no power. Ron Paul at one time had a small following, but not anymore. You should know that. Russians are being fooled to think differently. Read the link in post #3.

 

[ESay]

DM:The countries that tow the US line will try to use this as further proof. But if you want to talk about what the Ambassador said:“Russia is trying to deny justice.”… We know that somebody did it: It was Russia, Ukraine or the separatists, it was an accident, or it was on purpose. But it isn’t [considered] unusual that this proposal was drafted by Ukraine, which is one of the suspects in the crime. It must be unprecedented in criminal history to have one of the suspects draft a proposal like this.

This McAdams is a funny gay.

Firstly. Unless I am mistaken, it is Malaysia that prepared the draft and gave it to the Security Council. And after that Ukraine as well as Australia, Belgium, and the Netherlands gave their support of the document.

Secondly. If he is talking about Ukraine ‘which is one of the suspects in the crime’ and ‘It must be unprecedented in criminal history to have one of the suspects draft a proposal like this’ then why he isn’t talking about Russia being also among suspects of the crime and that it is quite illogical to give it a right to vote on the tribunal. It is the same thing if a murder suspect would be given a right to reject the trial because it is according to their opinion is political show. Isn’t it unprecedented in criminal history?

 

[Tehon]

Secondly. If he is talking about Ukraine ‘which is one of the suspects in the crime’ and ‘It must be unprecedented in criminal history to have one of the suspects draft a proposal like this’ then why he isn’t talking about Russia being also among suspects of the crime and that it is quite illogical to give it a right to vote on the tribunal. It is the same thing if a murder suspect would be given a right to reject the trial because it is according to their opinion is political show. Isn’t it unprecedented in criminal history?

Your opinion highlights the absurdity of the UN resolution. If there was more evidence than what has been produced for magazine articles then the perpetrators would be brought to justice without the need for such theatrics. Thank you. Now, maybe Camp can also see this point and stop worrying about Ron Paul's popularity, especially since it is completely irrelevant.

 

[Sonc]

I guess we'll never know for sure who is to blame.
But there are a few simple questions.

1) Cui bono (/ kwiː boʊnoʊ /), literally "to whose benefit?"
What is the benefit Russia? None. This is advantageous the United States to accuse Putin.
Or you can tell in what benefit of Russia?

2) If Russia was hit by a plane, why we did not destroy the "black box"? Pro-Russian separatists were there first. The offender sends a a record of how committed a crime?

3) Where is this record? Why didn't anyone told what upon it written?

 

[Camp]

Secondly. If he is talking about Ukraine ‘which is one of the suspects in the crime’ and ‘It must be unprecedented in criminal history to have one of the suspects draft a proposal like this’ then why he isn’t talking about Russia being also among suspects of the crime and that it is quite illogical to give it a right to vote on the tribunal. It is the same thing if a murder suspect would be given a right to reject the trial because it is according to their opinion is political show. Isn’t it unprecedented in criminal history?

Your opinion highlights the absurdity of the UN resolution. If there was more evidence than what has been produced for magazine articles then the perpetrators would be brought to justice without the need for such theatrics. Thank you. Now, maybe Camp can also see this point and stop worrying about Ron Paul's popularity, especially since it is completely irrelevant.

You are attacking the messenger, the magazine, instead of the message. The magazine is just publishing data that has been found during investigations, including information that came out in the official preliminary report put out by the Dutch investigation. The cell phone intercepts and social media comments make it pretty clear that separatist and Russians were involved to many people. There are also eye witnesses who saw the missile launch from separatist territory along with a photo of it's vapor trail. The BUK was tracked with photo's in Russia, traveling into Ukraine, entering the launch area just before the launch, leaving the launch area and returning to Russia. A tribunal would offer a legal and formal setting to present these and other facts, and the opportunity for Russia and the separatist to respond. The magazine article provides the opportunity to listen to the recorded intercepts, view the photo's and examine the evidence.
You can not complain about the messenger of the of the information, a magazine, and than refuse to have the data presented in a legal setting.
As far as Ron Paul's popularity, it appeared to be being presented as if his name and position in the US was relevant, which you have agreed it is not. Citizens in other counties are often tricked into believing comments and positions made by irrelevant Americans have some kind of meaning because they have no concept of who or what these people are or what they represent.
Finally, the statement that the perpetrators would or could be brought to justice without a UN resolution and tribunal is a bit disturbing. The world, and particularly the nations that had it's citizens murdered, no doubt would like to learn how that will be accomplished without the proposed UN tribunal. Perhaps there is an international investigative body that can hold an official investigation that can also hold guilty parties accountable that you know about that they don't.

 

[Sonc]

There are also eye witnesses who saw the missile launch from separatist territory along with a photo of it's vapor trail.
Can we see this photo?

 

[ESay]

Your opinion highlights the absurdity of the UN resolution. If there was more evidence than what has been produced for magazine articles then the perpetrators would be brought to justice without the need for such theatrics. Thank you. Now, maybe Camp can also see this point and stop worrying about Ron Paul's popularity, especially since it is completely irrelevant.

You are welcome.
But you seem not to understand my opinion correctly, I am afraid. The UN resolution itself isn’t an absurdity; the absurdity is the voting system in the UN Security Council.

 

[ESay]

1) Cui bono (/ kwiː boʊnoʊ /), literally "to whose benefit?"
What is the benefit Russia? None. This is advantageous the United States to accuse Putin.
Or you can tell in what benefit of Russia?

In this case it can be applied only partially. No one says that Russia or Russia-backed rebels did that on purpose.

2) If Russia was hit by a plane, why we did not destroy the "black box"? Pro-Russian separatists were there first. The offender sends a a record of how committed a crime?

It is one of those extremely rare cases when I agree with a Russian ‘patriot’. It is very strange that the rebels, if we assume that they are guilty, began to cooperate with the investigators almost from the very beginning of the investigation.

 

[Camp]

There are also eye witnesses who saw the missile launch from separatist territory along with a photo of it's vapor trail.
Can we see this photo?

It is in the link I provided in post #3.

 

[Stratford57]

First, let’s ask a simple question: why any War Tribunal is even needed, especially before:
a) The communications between the pilots and the Ukrainian air traffic controllers are published. (In all other cases the communications have been published same or the next day after the crash.)
and
b) “Irrefutable evidence” of who has shot the Boeing, which Obama has been claiming to have, is presented.
Sounds, like somebody badly needs another show instead of clean investigation. So far all “the evidence” presented by West or Ukraine was nothing but political spin.

1.USA and Ukraine as well as some other countries have shot civilian planes before, but nobody even thought about having War tribunal about that.
- Iran Air Flight 655 - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

- Ukraine finally admitted that its military shot down a Russian airliner that crashed into the Black Sea last week, killing all 78 passengers and crew.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/1359353/Ukraine-admits-it-shot-down-Russian-airliner.htm

The Israelis suspect the authorities in Kiev of covering up evidence that the Tu-154, which crashed into the Black Sea, was struck by a stray surface-to-air missile fired during a military exercise. They privately accused Ukraine yesterday of deliberately preventing an air investigation team from leaving Israel within hours of the crash, despite earlier guarantees of full co-operation.
Israel accuses Ukraine of hiding missile strike that destroyed jet - Telegraph

2. HAGUE tribunal has already shown to the world how “just” a Tribunal could be.

3. The Russian Defense Ministry published satellite images and radar data, saying that evidence proved that Ukraine had both ground-based anti-aircraft batteries and military aircraft capable of firing an air-to-air missile deployed in the region on the day of the MH17 shoot-down

Malaysian Airlines plane crash Russian military unveil data on MH17 incident over Ukraine FULL - YouTube

Also see how Kiev was trying to “present the proof”
Wrong time altered images Moscow slams Kiev s MH17 satellite data RT News

4. I hope sooner or later there will be a clean (keyword!) War Tribunal for all those war crimes Kiev Junta has committed against Ukrainian civilians. Over 6 thousand (officially!) have been killed, that's where the War Tribunal is really needed.

 

[Sonc]

It is very strange

Not only that.
in 2001 Ukraine shot down the Russian TU154
was used С 200

length TU154/777 49/74
charge weight с200/BUK 220/60

TU 154 was not destroyed immediately.
And the 777 was.

 

[ESay]

Not only that.
in 2001 Ukraine shot down the Russian TU154
was used С 200

length TU154/777 49/74
charge weight с200/BUK 220/60

TU 154 was not destroyed immediately.
And the 777 was.

I am not an expert in missiles and planes. Are you?
But I seem to understand what you are trying to say. I think it is quite illogical to blow up a plane in the air using a bomb and then to try to convince everybody that the plane was shot down by a missile, falsifying evidence. Why wouldn’t use a missile for that then?

 

[Tehon]

Secondly. If he is talking about Ukraine ‘which is one of the suspects in the crime’ and ‘It must be unprecedented in criminal history to have one of the suspects draft a proposal like this’ then why he isn’t talking about Russia being also among suspects of the crime and that it is quite illogical to give it a right to vote on the tribunal. It is the same thing if a murder suspect would be given a right to reject the trial because it is according to their opinion is political show. Isn’t it unprecedented in criminal history?

Your opinion highlights the absurdity of the UN resolution. If there was more evidence than what has been produced for magazine articles then the perpetrators would be brought to justice without the need for such theatrics. Thank you. Now, maybe Camp can also see this point and stop worrying about Ron Paul's popularity, especially since it is completely irrelevant.

You are attacking the messenger, the magazine, instead of the message. The magazine is just publishing data that has been found during investigations, including information that came out in the official preliminary report put out by the Dutch investigation. The cell phone intercepts and social media comments make it pretty clear that separatist and Russians were involved to many people. There are also eye witnesses who saw the missile launch from separatist territory along with a photo of it's vapor trail. The BUK was tracked with photo's in Russia, traveling into Ukraine, entering the launch area just before the launch, leaving the launch area and returning to Russia. A tribunal would offer a legal and formal setting to present these and other facts, and the opportunity for Russia and the separatist to respond. The magazine article provides the opportunity to listen to the recorded intercepts, view the photo's and examine the evidence.
You can not complain about the messenger of the of the information, a magazine, and than refuse to have the data presented in a legal setting.
As far as Ron Paul's popularity, it appeared to be being presented as if his name and position in the US was relevant, which you have agreed it is not. Citizens in other counties are often tricked into believing comments and positions made by irrelevant Americans have some kind of meaning because they have no concept of who or what these people are or what they represent.
Finally, the statement that the perpetrators would or could be brought to justice without a UN resolution and tribunal is a bit disturbing. The world, and particularly the nations that had it's citizens murdered, no doubt would like to learn how that will be accomplished without the proposed UN tribunal. Perhaps there is an international investigative body that can hold an official investigation that can also hold guilty parties accountable that you know about that they don't.

What's wrong with the International Criminal Court. A tribunal is just the continuation of the same dog and pony show we are currently watching.