A question for pro-lifers...

[koshergrl]

You confuse "justify your position" with "justify the position I have falsely attributed to you".

 

[AmyNation]

You confuse "justify your position" with "justify the position I have falsely attributed to you".

That is entirely possible.

pro-life supports believe abortion is the murder of an innocent baby.

Am I mistaken?

 

[koshergrl]

^^^^Oh look, trying to falsely attribute again.

 

[koshergrl]

"Or perhaps pro-life supports recognize that there is indeed a substantial difference between a fetus and a baby they just don't want to admit that they are more anti-abortion than they are pro-life."


This is the one I was talking about. Please cite and link some support.

 

[AmyNation]

"Or perhaps pro-life supports recognize that there is indeed a substantial difference between a fetus and a baby they just don't want to admit that they are more anti-abortion than they are pro-life."


This is the one I was talking about. Please cite and link some support.

You want a source to my personal opinion? .... I could link you to my favorite author, my favorite professor, and my moms Facebook page... I guess they would be the ones more responsible for helping form the person I am.

 

[koshergrl]

Ah, so you falsely attribute as directed.

Shocker.

 

[AmyNation]

Ah, so you falsely attribute as directed.

Shocker.

Lol wut?

What part of my opinion do you disagree with?

 

[koshergrl]

I don't waste time arguing against falsely attributed stances, just as I don't argue points I've never made.

 

[AmyNation]

I don't waste time arguing against falsely attributed stances, just as I don't argue points I've never made.

Im pretty sure if I cared enough I could find a post of you saying something to the effect of

"when does it become a baby!?! What's the diffrence between one day after birth vs one day before!!!!"

However... I don't care enough.

 

[koshergrl]

Your level of non-caring is evident, trust me. It shines through every post. You don't care about babies, women, and you also don't care about reality or fact.

You just don't care.

 

[AmyNation]

Your level of non-caring is evident, trust me. It shines through every post. You don't care about babies, women, and you also don't care about reality or fact.

You just don't care.

^^accidental irony.

 

[californiafats]

Or perhaps pro-life supports recognize that there is indeed a substantial difference between a fetus and a baby they just don't want to admit that they are more anti-abortion than they are pro-life.

But I understand the need to dismiss the hypocrisy as something "I just can't understand" when you fail to justify your position.

Many pro-life people believe there is a difference between a fetus and a baby. The liberal need to paint all of their opposition with the same brush is a clearly visibile indicator of the poverty of the liberal ability to THINK.

 

[JoeB131]

True enough. BUt anyone can feed the baby if the mother decides she doesn't want to deal with that shit. Now, when we can take fetuses out of wombs and put them into anti-abortion assholes, you might have an argument here.

Again don’t have sex and you don’t have to have an abortion.

No, they have the right to decide to have sex, and they have the right to terminate any unwanted pregnancies. Not only is that the LAW in this country, it's just common sense. Unless you want to start throwing pregnant women in jail and sending them to "Breeder Camps". Just because they don't do what you want (A standard by your own admission, you couldn't meet!) doesn't give you a say.

When you support taking care of these kids AFTER they are born, I'll start taking you seriously about what happens tothem before they are born. Or not.

[

So two of your examples are underdeleopled countries, one is a military system not designed to treat children, and Germany. Sorry, not making a convincing case for "socialized medicine is Eeeeeevil". Your argument was that you couldn't get timely treatment, not that they made wrong diagnosis. 96,000 American die every year because of medical mistakes in this country.

I never said that “socialized medicine” is evil. They weren’t trying to kill me it is just a trade off. With the system we have the hospitals are doctors are in it to make money and to avoid possible law suits. They will go overboard in ensuring that there is nothing wrong with you and if there is they treat it. Sure they make mistakes there is no perfect system. When it comes to “Socialized Medicine” they want to do as little as possible because there main concern is saving money. So when it comes to whether or not the give you a test is if they think you really need one. When they decide whether or not they are going to give you medicine they decide based on your chance to survive. They have the minimum number of beds and doctors to get the job done so you have to wait longer for services.

First, are you just as keen to think that privatized medicine isn't just as keen to save money as socialized medicine? Even more so, they have to make up profits. So they disallow "pre-existing conditions" and get rid of people like myself who run up too many medical bills on their plan.

And again, Industrialized countries with universal health care have longer life expectencies and lower infant mortality rates than Americans.

[

Goody for you. Not seeing why everyone else has to live to your standard because of your silly religious beliefs.

One I don’t believe in religion so that has nothing to do with my feelings. My standards are why does an unborn child have to die because two people decide to have unprotected sex? Now if you want to promote free services to where they can be castrated or have their tubes tied we can talk.

Again- YOU CALL IT an "unborn child". I call it a fetus. My term is technically accurate, yours isn't. So we are talking about your BELIEF it's a person, not any scientific, legal or practical matter. If it can't live outside a womb, it's the owner of that womb's decision. Period.

 

[californiafats]

You confuse "justify your position" with "justify the position I have falsely attributed to you".

That is entirely possible.

pro-life supports believe abortion is the murder of an innocent baby.

Am I mistaken?

Very. Some pro-life people believe that, and others don't. We're not as unibrained as liberals.

 

[koshergrl]

True enough. BUt anyone can feed the baby if the mother decides she doesn't want to deal with that shit. Now, when we can take fetuses out of wombs and put them into anti-abortion assholes, you might have an argument here.

Again don’t have sex and you don’t have to have an abortion.

No, they have the right to decide to have sex, and they have the right to terminate any unwanted pregnancies. Not only is that the LAW in this country, it's just common sense. Unless you want to start throwing pregnant women in jail and sending them to "Breeder Camps". Just because they don't do what you want (A standard by your own admission, you couldn't meet!) doesn't give you a say.

When you support taking care of these kids AFTER they are born, I'll start taking you seriously about what happens tothem before they are born. Or not.




First, are you just as keen to think that privatized medicine isn't just as keen to save money as socialized medicine? Even more so, they have to make up profits. So they disallow "pre-existing conditions" and get rid of people like myself who run up too many medical bills on their plan.

And again, Industrialized countries with universal health care have longer life expectencies and lower infant mortality rates than Americans.

[

Goody for you. Not seeing why everyone else has to live to your standard because of your silly religious beliefs.

One I don’t believe in religion so that has nothing to do with my feelings. My standards are why does an unborn child have to die because two people decide to have unprotected sex? Now if you want to promote free services to where they can be castrated or have their tubes tied we can talk.

Again- YOU CALL IT an "unborn child". I call it a fetus. My term is technically accurate, yours isn't. So we are talking about your BELIEF it's a person, not any scientific, legal or practical matter. If it can't live outside a womb, it's the owner of that womb's decision. Period.

"

• A Marxist believes that personality and human value are imparted by the external and economic environment, not by any inherent spiritual value, or even by biological processes.

• The fetus, according to a Marxist, becomes a person when he is judged as such by “someone of higher wisdom.” The humanity of the fetus depends upon how the mother perceives the “social relationship” that exists between them. If the mother desires to keep the baby, then she “fantasizes” it into becoming a human being. But, if she does not want the pregnancy, “it is something else entirely.” Her opinion of the fetus thereby denies it of personhood.

• “Biological processes,” says Albury, “do not carry automatic moral values as the Right to Life suggests … Human economic, social, and political relationships create moral values.”

• According to Albury, “Material conditions of life change, and so do moral values.” This means that, to a Marxist, the unborn baby may be a human being for a time, but may then become depersonified and rendered ‘pre-human,’ all because his or her mother began to think differently about him or her. She adds: “Certainly, many women experience mixed feelings; the fantasy baby may even appear for a while. Women can tell it goodbye forever.”

Baby killing monsters/Joe. Can't tell them apart.

Marxism and Abortion — The Forerunner

 

[JoeB131]

Actually, Some Marxists actually tried to ban abortion and birth control and turn women into the breeders you want to turn them into...

Read up on Nicolae Ceausescu -

http://www.sustainer.org/dhm_archive/index.php?display_article=vn318cohort_of67ed

In his wisdom dictator Nicolae Ceausescu decided in the mid-1960s that Romania ought to have 25 million people. At the time the population was 19 million. He designated the title "Heroine Mother" for any woman who bore and brought up ten or more children. For seven to nine children a woman won the order of "Maternal Glory." For five or six children she was given the "Maternity Medal."

In their wisdom the mothers of Romania, living in cramped quarters with a poor diet and a declining standard of living, decided that, medals or no medals, they could not support large families. They were having on average less than two children apiece. If that reproduction rate continued, Romania's population would begin to fall.

The pill and the intrauterine device had never been allowed in the country. Other modern means of contraception were essentially unavailable. The women were maintaining their low birth rate with the only option open to them -- abortion, which was legal and available on a walk-in basis at any local clinic for a fee of about $2. In 1966 in Romania there were four abortions for every live birth.

In that year, with no warning, Ceausescu issued Decree No. 770 prohibiting abortion. He did nothing to make contraceptives more available. He was not motivated by concern for families or unborn children; he wanted a larger labor force.

In 1967 the Romanian birth rate doubled. Then it started dropping. Within ten years it was nearly as low as it had been before, though there had been no change in policy.

Wait for it, it gets better...

Finally, at a crowded party, with my official spies momentarily out of hearing range, I had an opportunity to find out. I was talking to the head of obstetrics at a major Bucharest hospital. I told him I wondered how the birth rate had fallen, and then I asked, "What has happened to your maternal mortality rate?"

He looked straight at me. He got my drift. "It has become very, very high," he said with great sadness. In nearly every country women who die of complications from abortion, legal or illegal, are listed in health statistics as maternal mortalities. Later I saw some actual figures. As the birth rate came down in Romania after Decree 770, the maternal mortality rate tripled.

Ceausescu's policy to increase the Romanian population failed to achieve its goal. It imposed pain, injury, and death on Romanian women

Sounds like your kind of guy, Kosh!

 

[AmyNation]

You confuse "justify your position" with "justify the position I have falsely attributed to you".

That is entirely possible.

pro-life supports believe abortion is the murder of an innocent baby.

Am I mistaken?

Very. Some pro-life people believe that, and others don't. We're not as unibrained as liberals.

I admit, I had no idea there were pro-life supporters who believe a fetus is not a baby. I've never encountered one.

Is that your position?

 

[koshergrl]

You're an idiot.

"Fetus" is just a label, like "baby", that identifies a human being at a particular stage of development.

Stages of life of a human:

embryo
fetus
infant
child
adolescent
adult
aged


You're a narrow minded, and ignorant, moron. We have discussed this particular topic on here many times, with the pro-life people saying repeatedly that "fetus" is just a development/age description that in no way affects the HUMANITY of a human.

 

[AmyNation]

You're an idiot.

"Fetus" is just a label, like "baby", that identifies a human being at a particular stage of development.

Stages of life of a human:

embryo
fetus
infant
child
adolescent
adult
aged


You're a narrow minded, and ignorant, moron. We have discussed this particular topic on here many times, with the pro-life people saying repeatedly that "fetus" is just a development/age description that in no way affects the HUMANITY of a human.

I don't agree that a fetus is a person. Apparently there are some pro-life supporters who agree with me, clearly you are not one of them.

 

[AmyNation]

Btw why don't you let her argue her own position, you are not really helping her arugement.