14 yr old rape victim lashed to death

[Bosun]

OK, apostasy was not coerced. the person, born a Muslim, heard the word of god through unbelievers and accepted that the House of Issac over Ismael. In other-words reject the Qur'an as not being true, and Muhammad as the inventor of a religion and not being inspired of the Archangel Gabriel.... The Apostate now believes that Abraham took Issac up on the mountain and was justified at releasing Ismael and Hagar from his home because they were unusally cruel to Issac.

Now the Apostate reveals that Islam is not the true religion, however, does not go out of his or her way to openly oppose or disrespect it.... How would you and your Islamic court deal with that person? What if it was one who was emotionally close to you, how would you deal with it?

If this person abandoned the Truth for the falsehoods you describe above and spread the news of their apostasy in public, they will have sufficiently proved themselves guilty of apostasy and treason and face execution if they did not recant. Their closeness to me or anybody else would not affect the sentencing.

so, the sentence of death is appropriate? would honour killing by a senior member of the family be appropriate? would you caste the first stone, Bro?Now, my dear brother, Kalam...

What does Sin, Savalation, and Redemption mean to you... What is the teaching in your holy book and that of the Prophet (PBUH) and his companions???

 

[Vargulf]

Muhammad a kind an compassionate man????!!! Right. He was a raider, a thief, a murderer and a child molester.
As for rape victims being murdered, that is Islam for you. The victim must have four male witnesses to the rape (as if rapists rape their victims in front of everyone). This is part of the absurdity and cruelty of Islam. It is truely a religion of hate. It clearly advocates the oppression, persecution and killing of infidels and considers anyone not Muslim to be not an innocent.
If the citizens of western nations do not rise up against it, they will only have themselves to blame for eventually being tormented under its yoke.

 

[Bosun]

OK, apostasy was not coerced. the person, born a Muslim, heard the word of god through unbelievers and accepted that the House of Issac over Ismael. In other-words reject the Qur'an as not being true, and Muhammad as the inventor of a religion and not being inspired of the Archangel Gabriel.... The Apostate now believes that Abraham took Issac up on the mountain and was justified at releasing Ismael and Hagar from his home because they were unusally cruel to Issac.

Now the Apostate reveals that Islam is not the true religion, however, does not go out of his or her way to openly oppose or disrespect it.... How would you and your Islamic court deal with that person? What if it was one who was emotionally close to you, how would you deal with it?

If this person abandoned the Truth for the falsehoods you describe above and spread the news of their apostasy in public, they will have sufficiently proved themselves guilty of apostasy and treason and face execution if they did not recant. Their closeness to me or anybody else would not affect the sentencing.

Now, my dear brother, Kalam...

What does Sin, Savalation, and Redemption mean to you... What is the teaching in your holy book and that of the Prophet (PBUH) and his companions???

 

[Bosun]

Muhammad a kind an compassionate man????!!! Right. He was a raider, a thief, a murderer and a child molester.
As for rape victims being murdered, that is Islam for you. The victim must have four male witnesses to the rape (as if rapists rape their victims in front of everyone). This is part of the absurdity and cruelty of Islam. It is truely a religion of hate. It clearly advocates the oppression, persecution and killing of infidels and considers anyone not Muslim to be not an innocent.
If the citizens of western nations do not rise up against it, they will only have themselves to blame for eventually being tormented under its yoke.

good point...

 

[Kalam]

Oh for fucks sake. FOUR WITNESSES?

See above. Four witnesses are not required to pass sentence on a rapist.

Is not about rape, it is about adultery.

Incorrect. The hadith and the fatawa I linked to show that rape is not merely a form of zina and it has been treated as a separate crime throughout Islam's jurisprudential history. The hadith shows that Muhammad (SAWS) was prepared to pass sentence against the man accused of rape even though there were not four witnesses. Again, read the words of your favorite scholar, al-Munajjid. Mail your objections to him. You claim to be interested in what you call "traditional Islam" -- there is no scholar of note who has ever adopted the enormously flawed position you describe above. More information:

Sunnipath - Shaykh Faraz Rabbani - Four witnesses in rape?
IslamOnline - Shaykh Ahmad Kutty - Are Raped Women Asked to Bring Four Witnesses?
IslamQA - Shaykh Muhammad Saleh al-Munajjid - What is the ruling on the crime of rape in Islam?

"If a woman becomes pregnant without having a husband or a master (if she is a slave), she may not be punished and instead she should be asked about it. If she claims that she was coerced into it or that she committed adultery under dubious circumstances, or if she simply does not confess adultery then she will not be punished. This is the saying of Abu Hanifah and ash-Shafi'i, because she may be pregnant as a result of a forceful intercourse or dubious circumstances. Punishment will be abandoned in case suspicion exists." - Ibn Qudamah (Hanbali, b. 1147), Al-Mughni​

Rape is not merely zina and a woman cannot be punished if she claims she was coerced.

 

[Kalam]

OK, apostasy was not coerced. the person, born a Muslim, heard the word of god through unbelievers and accepted that the House of Issac over Ismael. In other-words reject the Qur'an as not being true, and Muhammad as the inventor of a religion and not being inspired of the Archangel Gabriel.... The Apostate now believes that Abraham took Issac up on the mountain and was justified at releasing Ismael and Hagar from his home because they were unusally cruel to Issac.

Now the Apostate reveals that Islam is not the true religion, however, does not go out of his or her way to openly oppose or disrespect it.... How would you and your Islamic court deal with that person? What if it was one who was emotionally close to you, how would you deal with it?

If this person abandoned the Truth for the falsehoods you describe above and spread the news of their apostasy in public, they will have sufficiently proved themselves guilty of apostasy and treason and face execution if they did not recant. Their closeness to me or anybody else would not affect the sentencing.

Now, my dear brother, Kalam...

What does Sin, Savalation, and Redemption mean to you... What is the teaching in your holy book and that of the Prophet (PBUH) and his companions???

You'll have to be more specific.

 

[Kalam]

It's worth mentioning that Imam Malik believed that evidence of coercion was necessary (so I was partially mistaken) but ijma' has rendered this opinion invalid. The words of the eminent Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani (Hanafi - Deobandi) on the issue:

What is the rationale for removing the Shariah punishment for rape? The authors argue that the Hudood Ordinance treated a victim of rape who was unable to produce four witnesses as a criminal herself; she was jailed for allegedly having committed adultery. This claim is simply false.

I myself had been directly hearing cases registered under Hudood Ordinance, first as a Judge of Federal Shariah Court and then for seventeen years as a member of Shariah Appellate Bench of the Supreme Court. In this long tenure, not once did I come across a case in which a rape victim was awarded punishment simply because she was unable to present four witnesses.

In fact it was not possible to do so. First, according to the Hudood Ordinance, the condition of four witnesses only applied to enforcing the hadd for rape. Clause 10(3), which awarded the ta’zeer punishment, did not have this requirement; the crime could be proven through one witness, medical reports, and chemical analysis report. Consequently most rape criminals were awarded punishment as per this clause.

Further, a woman claiming rape could not be punished under Qazf (false accusation of zina) since Exemption 2 in Qazf Ordinance Clause 3 clearly stated that if someone approaches the legal authorities with a rape complaint, she could not be punished in case she was unable to present four witnesses.

The only possibility was that the woman could be awarded punishment for committing adultery with her own free will. Obviously, if the available evidence did prove her guilt, punishing her was the just course of action. However, such cases were rare, since usually there was insufficient evidence to prove that the woman was lying; in 99% of the cases the court was neither convinced that the man had compelled the woman, nor could it prove her guilt and so she was given the benefit of doubt and set free.

 

[idb]

i hate injustice regardless of who is doing it....hard to claim that your religion doesnt punish rape victim when this girl died of the punishment

I think what Kalam is saying is that the people that meted out this punishment are perverting Islam. Much in the same way some Christians pervert Christianity.

I know that.


However, i sure don't see any christian arbitration handing out judgments nor do i see them passing out punishments that are carried out.

I haven't seen any christian stoning s or whippings of late. Have you?

Careful...abortion clinic bombings spring to mind!

 

[idb]

OK, apostasy was not coerced. the person, born a Muslim, heard the word of god through unbelievers and accepted that the House of Issac over Ismael. In other-words reject the Qur'an as not being true, and Muhammad as the inventor of a religion and not being inspired of the Archangel Gabriel.... The Apostate now believes that Abraham took Issac up on the mountain and was justified at releasing Ismael and Hagar from his home because they were unusally cruel to Issac.

Now the Apostate reveals that Islam is not the true religion, however, does not go out of his or her way to openly oppose or disrespect it.... How would you and your Islamic court deal with that person? What if it was one who was emotionally close to you, how would you deal with it?

If this person abandoned the Truth for the falsehoods you describe above and spread the news of their apostasy in public, they will have sufficiently proved themselves guilty of apostasy and treason and face execution if they did not recant. Their closeness to me or anybody else would not affect the sentencing.

For that reason alone (if no other), Shariah is surely incompatible with the law of the USA.
Observe the First Amendment.

Is there a fatwa or other pronouncement or law regarding the status in Islam and responsibilities of a Muslim voluntarily living under non-Islamic law?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Rape is not merely zina and a woman cannot be punished if she claims she was coerced.

You keep saying that I havent found the way for her to prove she was coerced if the "violator" is a good guy how acts piously. Do you have some kind of proof?

 

[strollingbones]

could we please focus here? a 14 yr old girl was killed after being raped...she was killed by the religious council of this village....while the rapist paid a fine?

i dont give a flying fuck what religion you are...this is merely a combo of sadism coupled with woman hating...i cannot even begin to understand a mind that can rationalize this....holding a 14 yr girl more responsible than a 40 yr old man?

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

could we please focus here? a 14 yr old girl was killed after being raped...she was killed by the religious council of this village....while the rapist paid a fine?

i dont give a flying fuck what religion you are...this is merely a combo of sadism coupled with woman hating...i cannot even begin to understand a mind that can rationalize this....holding a 14 yr girl more responsible than a 40 yr old man?

I dont think the reasoning was sound in Islam. For money to have been paid it would be paid to the surviving victim. And no escape is found for the violator.
In the community the girl must have been troublesome in some way ( to tempting) and the rapist popular (rich and influential)

Rape as hiraba is a violent crime that uses sexual intercourse as a weapon. The focus in a hiraba prosecution is the accused rapist and his intent and physical actions, and not second-guessing the consent of the rape victim. Hiraba does not require four witnesses to prove the offense, circumstantial evidence, medical data and expert testimony form the evidence used to prosecute such crimes.

Islamic legal responses to rape are not limited to a criminal prosecution for hiraba. Islamic jurisprudence also provides an avenue for civil redress for a rape survivor in its law of "jirah" (wounds). Islamic law designates ownership rights to each part of one’s body, and a right to corresponding compensation for any harm done unlawfully to any of those parts. Islamic law calls this the ‘law of jirah’ (wounds).

Harm to a sexual organ, therefore, entitles the person harmed to appropriate financial compensation under classical Islamic jirah jurisprudence. Each school of Islamic law has held that where a woman is harmed through sexual intercourse (some include marital intercourse), she is entitled to financial compensation for the harm. Further, where this intercourse was without the consent of the woman, the perpetrator must pay the woman both the basic compensation for the harm, as well as an additional amount based on the ‘diyya’ (financial compensation for murder, akin to a wrongful death payment).

Rape in Islam

 

[strollingbones]

Allah said "flog each of them with a hundred stripes." No word on the man, but they got right to work on the teenage girl. The poor and marginalized consistently bear the brunt of Sharia's brutality.

Fifteen-year-old Hena Begum died in hospital on Monday after a village court in the southern Bangladesh district of Shariatpur sentenced her to 100 lashes, said local police chief A.K.M Shahidur Rahman.

"We have arrested one of the clerics (who sat on the village court) and three villagers including the wife of the man who Hena Begum had an illicit relationship with," Mr Rahman told AFP.

"Let not compassion move you," said the supposed creator of the universe.

According to Mr Rahman, the teenage girl was "beaten mercilessly" by the family of the married man, who was also Hena's cousin, after the affair was discovered.

"Let not compassion move you," said the allegedly "compassionate and merciful."

Bangladesh: 15-year-old girl dies during punishment straight out of the Qur'an - Jihad Watch


no compassion....no mercy.....hardly a religion of peace...a religion of peace...show compassion and mercy....my spirituality demands compassion and mercy....esp to children...and that is what she was...a child

 

[strollingbones]

"Her family members said she was admitted to a hospital after the incident and she died six days later. The village elders also asked the girl's father to pay a fine of about 50,000 Taka (£430; $700)," district superintendent of police, AKM Shahidur Rahman, told the BBC.

BBC News - Four arrested after Bangladesh girl 'lashed to death'

includes a pic of the girl.....how anyone can function with this type of backwards thinking is beyond me.

 

[mdn2000]

Allah said "flog each of them with a hundred stripes." No word on the man, but they got right to work on the teenage girl. The poor and marginalized consistently bear the brunt of Sharia's brutality.

Fifteen-year-old Hena Begum died in hospital on Monday after a village court in the southern Bangladesh district of Shariatpur sentenced her to 100 lashes, said local police chief A.K.M Shahidur Rahman.

"We have arrested one of the clerics (who sat on the village court) and three villagers including the wife of the man who Hena Begum had an illicit relationship with," Mr Rahman told AFP.

"Let not compassion move you," said the supposed creator of the universe.

According to Mr Rahman, the teenage girl was "beaten mercilessly" by the family of the married man, who was also Hena's cousin, after the affair was discovered.

"Let not compassion move you," said the allegedly "compassionate and merciful."

Bangladesh: 15-year-old girl dies during punishment straight out of the Qur'an - Jihad Watch


no compassion....no mercy.....hardly a religion of peace...a religion of peace...show compassion and mercy....my spirituality demands compassion and mercy....esp to children...and that is what she was...a child

This happened in an Islamic society where Islam has been the culture for centuries.

It does not matter what Kalem or anyother person thinks, this murder happened in the name of Allah, simply because, in the eyes of Islamic culture, it is Allah's will.

It was Allah's will that this girl was raped and then murdered with a bull whip.

I am serious, every follower of Islam will not argue with this statement, it was Allah's will that this girl was raped and murdered.

 

[mdn2000]

could we please focus here? a 14 yr old girl was killed after being raped...she was killed by the religious council of this village....while the rapist paid a fine?

i dont give a flying fuck what religion you are...this is merely a combo of sadism coupled with woman hating...i cannot even begin to understand a mind that can rationalize this....holding a 14 yr girl more responsible than a 40 yr old man?

It is more important to point out that "Moslems in the World's largest Moslem University know more about Sharia law" than those who live and breath Islam on a daily basis according to the traditions and culture of Islam that has existed hundreds of years.

It is more important to defend Islam and show its purity than to demand Islamic culture obey simply laws, like you do not Bull Whip children.

 

[Ropey]

It is more important to defend Islam and show its purity than to demand Islamic culture obey simply laws, like you do not Bull Whip children.

This is the nexus mdn. The cultural dis-convergence.

 

[Liability]

Says nothing about establishing in the US.........FAIL

That's funny. Because I said nothing about "establishing sharia law in the US" either. Neither had logical4u.

What I had said mocked YOUR idiotic reply to logical4U since there ARE some folks who do call for Sharia "law" here in the United States. Then YOU said "sure" as though my rather limited contention was itself wrong.

So, your transparent and typically dishonest effort to move the goal post and make any kind of "point" with your little straw-man creation is indeed a fail.

No surprises there.

That's the best ya got???

I thought you were serious. How bout showing any serious attempt at establishing sharia law in the US?

As usual, you fall on your face

But you are still fun to play with

We've already estblished that you engaged in a strawman and in moving the goalposts.

You are dishonest in your manner of debate. (Even your username is dishonest.)

And that, sadly, IS the best you've got.

You remain an abject fail.

 

[strollingbones]

again focus on what is happening today....not what is done in the bible 100's of years ago....

 

[Intense]

again focus on what is happening today....not what is done in the bible 100's of years ago....

What was done here was an Atrocity. Some here have no defense for the action, so they need to spin and divert the argument away by any desperate means, no matter how far stretched. The Truth is that these examples of Claimed Sharia Law are Human Rights Violations, worse so because they claim what they are doing is condoned by God.