Zero Respect

[Onyx]

Nah, it would have died a quiet death. Nice job. The partisans loved it.

You're probably a nice guy in person, probably a little angsty, but a decent bloak.

I just try to abide by the human condition.

I get emotional. I get angry. I get scared. I make mistakes.

 

[Preacher]

I have zero respect if you do not sincerely believe that both presidential candidates are vile human beings.

There is no justifying your ignorance if that is the case.

Trump SAID stupid,mean,vile things
Clinton DID stupid,mean,vile,criminal things.

See the difference?

 

[OldLady]

Vile is not the right word.

I would say both candidates are statists, elitists, and ignorant of the Constitution. Do you think this make me ignorant?

I agree with the last bit, although I myself do not care for the constitution.

That stuff aside, they are still also vile human beings. Trash to the core.

What's your angle today? No, don't tell me. You will continue to diss our country and our leaders and our constitution, which gives you the freedom to spout your rubbish, to demoralize us all to the point that we have no faith in our leadership. And there's your sweet spot.
Not buying it. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Do you have faith in yourself? In your families? In your communities? In your schools? In your local organizations?

What do you put faith in?


It seems to me that the establishment is doing a pretty good job of destroying our faith in the leaders and the nation all on it's own.

Although I don't agree with Onyx's disdain and abuse directed toward the membership, we all have been frustrated with others. Education of people rather then putting them down is probably a preferable course of action, isn't it?

Of course. If you can educate Onyx to see things differently, I will personally give you an award.
In the meantime, I will continue to have faith in my nation, warts and all. I'm a bit old to believe that anything is perfect.

Onyx is an idealist and an ideologue. I'm not sure there is much that can be done for him. I think he is very intelligent and a very valuable member to the board and has a lot of valuable information to impart to the community that most members would never encounter because of the foundation control over both government schooling and the corporate control of media information.

OTH, I don't think he really knows a lot about the anthropological perspectives of how governments developed among humanity, the philosophy of government, or even realpoltik. From his ideological POV, these considerations aren't really necessary or, in the final analysis, very important.

I know you are against Trump, but if he is elected, will you still have faith in your nation?

I know you are against Trump, but if he is elected, will you still have faith in your nation?[/QUOTE]
Of course, why would I not? Anarchists are missing the human angle. Their ideology has never and will never work because us damned humans get thrown into the mix, and as a whole, we hate chaos and uncertainty, lack of direction. We can't survive in this world of nation states if we are not united, without some central power to speak for us and act in our interests. Of course it sounds great, but so did Plato's Republic. Nothing wrong with a dream; you just gotta admit it's a dream.
What I DO object to is the way all the various factions, not just Onyx, are using the tactic of tearing down and really whaling on their opposition in fiercely demoralizing rhetoric that will never in the end do anyone any good, except those who would see us fall apart as a country. And sorry, I can't abide any thought collective that doesn't believe in the Constitution or voting. This dog's too old.

 

[Onyx]

Well then, just taking in the considerations of realpolitik, should a US citizen A) not vote or B) who should they vote for and why?

Let's just clear something up first. An honest idealist always thinks practically. Okay, now buckle up, because I don't want to lose you.

A "US citizen" should not vote. Voting is a means of manufacturing consent to legitimize the states right to rule. The state creates nothing and takes everything, and never has systematically controlling a population ever worked for the greater good.

You must accept that the only functions of the state are to appropriate and control. Then you must acknowledge that neither forcible appropriation or institutionalized control ever benefits the general population (nor do power hierarchies, but I'll exempt that for now).

When you accept this fundamental truth, then you come to terms with the fact that falsely consenting to the system will not benefit humanity, and that the existence of the system hurts humanity.

Now you could retort, and claim that you do not give a rats ass about humanity. That you only care about yourself. If that is the case, then I would point out that when you chose to live through others, their happiness becomes an extension of your own happiness, and therefore you gain net utility. When you manufacture consent to the state through voting, you give false legitimacy to a system that deprives you of utility.

Some quotes from Frederic Bastiat affirming what I just said....

]

 

[Onyx]

Trump SAID stupid,mean,vile things
Clinton DID stupid,mean,vile,criminal things.

See the difference?

Donald Trumps crooked history is not widely acknowledged. Nonetheless, it is there.

 

[Preacher]

Trump SAID stupid,mean,vile things
Clinton DID stupid,mean,vile,criminal things.

See the difference?

Donald Trumps crooked history is not widely acknowledged. Nonetheless, it is there.

I've heard rumors but nothing concrete and what he has been accused of were taken care of. Clinton just keeps lying about what she did and keeps hiding stuff. People will trust you more if you acknowledge your issues and settle them instead of keep kicking the can down the road. Its even worse for her because she got others killed and she has a 30 years history of doing it in politics.

 

[Onyx]

Of course, why would I not? Anarchists are missing the human angle.

Seriously?

There is nothing human about the state. It is greed and savagery exemplified.

Their ideology has never and will never work

Except when it has

because us damned humans get thrown into the mix

Going to stop you right there.

Human nature is a social construct. Anarchy is the natural state of man. When human beings formed the first civilizations over ten thousand years ago, they did not have kings, courts, or all the other bullshit that you dipshits believing is preventing the sky from falling.

and as a whole, we hate chaos and uncertainty

States have plunged humanity into every war in human history, have killed more of their own people than every war in human history, and had a direct hand in every case of economic turmoil since the birth of markets.

If you hate chaos and uncertainty, then why are you pledging allegiance to a flag that has directly and indirectly led to the deaths of hundreds of millions?

lack of direction.

Not that is an interesting word. Direction.

The never ending pursuit towards human perfection, IE, progress. Cruel and unrelenting progress. When does that progress of yours end? When the human race and mother earth are completely destroyed by wars and corporate exploitation?

We can't survive in this world of nation states if we are not united, without some central power to speak for us and act in our interests.

We cannot survive in a world of nation-states.

The nation state has brought jingoism, violence, and conditioning into our lives. Pretty soon, nations states are going to destroy everything you hold dear in nuclear Armageddon.

Statists are barbaric, inhuman, hateful, idiotic, conditioned, and self destructive. We were born into this earth with everything, and the ruling class that you are subsevient too pissed it all away. Soon we will have nothing, and you are guilty by association.

 

[Onyx]

I've heard rumors but nothing concrete and what he has been accused of were taken care of.

Same exact ordeal with Clinton.

You believe what you want to believe.

 

[Preacher]

I've heard rumors but nothing concrete and what he has been accused of were taken care of.

Same exact ordeal with Clinton.

You believe what you want to believe.

Oh most things with her were and are true PLUS she was in politics and when she screwed something up it affected EVERYONE. Trump was/is a businessman.

 

[Onyx]

Oh most things with her were and are true PLUS she was in politics and when she screwed something up it affected EVERYONE. Trump was/is a businessman.

Same ordeal with Trump.

For god sakes, the guy even admitted to forming crony relationships with politicians. How else would of his businesses got bailed out and subsidized by taxpayer dollars? Come on, use your head here.

I understand that you are a white nationalist. You might find a better candidate in the American Freedom Party.

At least this asshole didn't steal our tax dollars. Just my hope for humanity.

 

[Preacher]

Oh most things with her were and are true PLUS she was in politics and when she screwed something up it affected EVERYONE. Trump was/is a businessman.

Same ordeal with Trump.

For god sakes, the guy even admitted to forming crony relationships with politicians. How else would of his businesses got bailed out and subsidized by taxpayer dollars? Come on, use your head here.

I understand that you are a white nationalist. You might find a better candidate in the American Freedom Party.

At least this asshole didn't steal our tax dollars. Just my hope for humanity.

Of course he did he was a businessman who used the laws available to him to make his business grow and give a profit to his investors! It was up to people like Clinton to CLOSE those holes he was using. Why did she not do that? I know Trump can fix things because he has used these things for 40 years so of course he knows what they are and knows how to fix them. I would vote for Bob Whitaker if he was on my ballot and I wasn't in a swing state. But he isn't on the ballot and I am in a swing state so Trump needs my vote.

 

[Onyx]

Of course he did he was a businessman who used the laws available to him to make his business grow and give a profit to his investors! It was up to people like Clinton to CLOSE those holes he was using.

That's such bullshit.

He acted unethically and nearly everyone that had associated in business with him (his investors) has called him a slimeball. The law was written for crooks like Trump, and no amount of excuses are going to make the things he did okay.

If you ever get mugged, make sure to give some words of praise to the thug that did it. After all, he was just leveraging his assets, and it isn't his fault the police were not there to stop him.

 

[Preacher]

Of course he did he was a businessman who used the laws available to him to make his business grow and give a profit to his investors! It was up to people like Clinton to CLOSE those holes he was using.

That's such bullshit.

He acted unethically and nearly everyone that had associated in business with him (his investors) has called him a slimeball. The law was written for crooks like Trump, and no amount of excuses are going to make the things he did okay.

If you ever get mugged, make sure to give some words of praise to the thug that did it. After all, he was just leveraging his assets, and it isn't his fault the police were not there to stop him.

So he used the law as it was written. I see nothing wrong lawfully. Was it low and underhanded? Sure but if he didn't use it THOUSANDS of other businessman and women WOULD HAVE and he would be out of business.

 

[gipper]

Of course, why would I not? Anarchists are missing the human angle.

Seriously?

There is nothing human about the state. It is greed and savagery exemplified.

Their ideology has never and will never work

Except when it has

because us damned humans get thrown into the mix

Going to stop you right there.

Human nature is a social construct. Anarchy is the natural state of man. When human beings formed the first civilizations over ten thousand years ago, they did not have kings, courts, or all the other bullshit that you dipshits believing is preventing the sky from falling.

and as a whole, we hate chaos and uncertainty

States have plunged humanity into every war in human history, have killed more of their own people than every war in human history, and had a direct hand in every case of economic turmoil since the birth of markets.

If you hate chaos and uncertainty, then why are you pledging allegiance to a flag that has directly and indirectly led to the deaths of hundreds of millions?

lack of direction.

Not that is an interesting word. Direction.

The never ending pursuit towards human perfection, IE, progress. Cruel and unrelenting progress. When does that progress of yours end? When the human race and mother earth are completely destroyed by wars and corporate exploitation?

We can't survive in this world of nation states if we are not united, without some central power to speak for us and act in our interests.

We cannot survive in a world of nation-states.

The nation state has brought jingoism, violence, and conditioning into our lives. Pretty soon, nations states are going to destroy everything you hold dear in nuclear Armageddon.

Statists are barbaric, inhuman, hateful, idiotic, conditioned, and self destructive. We were born into this earth with everything, and the ruling class that you are subsevient too pissed it all away. Soon we will have nothing, and you are guilty by association.

That is without question the BEST post of the day. I was about to respond to Oldlady's foolish, statist, brainwashed post, but you did a far better job than I could.

If only people would realize that statism, big unlimited government, or whatever form of control the elites utilize to attain power and wealth, is the PROBLEM. Anarchy is the solution, but sadly too many people have been told by statists that anarchy equals chaos and statism equals peace and order, when clearly the opposite is true.

 

[Onyx]

If only people would realize that statism, big unlimited government, or whatever form of control the elites utilize to attain power and wealth, is the PROBLEM. Anarchy is the solution, but sadly too many people have been told by statists that anarchy equals chaos and statism equals peace and order, when clearly the opposite is true.

Thanks, I guess.

A state is anyone or anything that uses institutional force to exercise control over others, whether that be a common street gang or a government (it can even be an individual). Anarchists uphold themselves to a higher level of consciousness in regards to civil cooperation.

Those that claim anarchy is chaos do not really understand the first thing about anarchism. Rulers, or those that exercise violence to control others, are simply not condoned in an anarchy. How can a society that rejects power and violence be considered chaotic?

All I can advise people to do is to keep on educating themselves. It amazes me how many contemporary anarchists have never even touched a book on the subject.

 

[Onyx]

So he used the law as it was written. I see nothing wrong lawfully. Was it low and underhanded? Sure but if he didn't use it THOUSANDS of other businessman and women WOULD HAVE and he would be out of business.

Right, yet you continue to act apologetic. Unethical "businessmen" (crooks more like it) take away wealth from honest capitalists.

When money is appropriated artificially by the government, like it was to Donald Trump and his business, it creates an unsustainable bubble. For that reason you have Donald Trump to thank for the recent recession, at least in part.

 

[Norman]

I have zero respect if you do not sincerely believe that both presidential candidates are vile human beings.

There is no justifying your ignorance if that is the case.

Agreed, only one of them is a criminal cheater.

 

[Preacher]

So he used the law as it was written. I see nothing wrong lawfully. Was it low and underhanded? Sure but if he didn't use it THOUSANDS of other businessman and women WOULD HAVE and he would be out of business.

Right, yet you continue to act apologetic. Unethical "businessmen" (crooks more like it) take away wealth from honest capitalists.

When money is appropriated artificially by the government, like it was to Donald Trump and his business, it creates an unsustainable bubble. For that reason you have Donald Trump to thank for the recent recession, at least in part.

Eh I despise capitalism so.

 

[Onyx]

Eh I despise capitalism so.

It has its flaws. Most people that fit your profile treat the word capitalism with esteem.

 

[Norman]

Donald Trump is responsible for the bubble now?

These people have lower IQs than cretins, you couldn't make this stuff up.

The real villains:

Clinton and Bush.