Zelensky says no peace deal without Kyviv

[Rigby5]

An expansion of NATO 35 years ago was not necessary

Putin’s aggression makes it obvious further expansion is necessary
Ukraine needs an assurance of safety

Wrong.
NATO has always been the bad guys.
NATO is just a new name for the Colonial Imperialists, the French, British, and the US replaced Spain after the Spanish American war.
WWI for example, was entirely caused by the Allies, who not only illegally assassinated Archduke Ferdinand and his wife, but then the French illegally invaded Southern Germany.

The Germans were illegally forced to surrender in WWI even though they still won the battlefield, by illegally sinking civilian food ships and starving the Germany population, in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

They the Treaty of Versailles was totally criminal, stealing over half of Germany, all their colonies, shipping, etc.

The "aggression" is the bribes by the US to the ethnic Polish generals in Kyiv, to steal the Ukraine from Russia.
The Ukraine historically has always been the heart of Russia, with Kyiv being the capital of Russia from 900 AD to 1200 AD when it had to be moved to Moscow in order to avoid the Mongol invasion.

The Ukraine has always been inside the Russian defense grid, so there is no way Russia can ever allow the Ukraine to join NATO, and illegally place a nuclear first strike force inside of Russian defenses.
The violator is entirely the Ukraine and the US, not Russia.
Russia happens to be the "good guys" in this case.

 

[Rigby5]

I want to see Ukraine win the war snd push russia back to pre-2020 borders

But that is not happening

The Ukraine was a US puppet since the Maidan Coup of 2014, and Russia clearly is going to win back the entire country.

 

[TimFitz]

Trump never said he would exclude Ukraine from the talks, please point out where he said that.

He gave the store away without talking to Zelinsky. Trump never once mentioned Ukrainian participation in his talks with aputin over Ukraine’s fate.

you are playing games now.

Trump gave the store away without asking Zelinsky at all.

The one being encircled by Russian forces? Yeah, good job, that's 50,000 Ukrainian troops who will never return home unless they surrender. The Kursk gambit failed the minute Russia decided not to pull troops from the front and instead moved troops from the interior to expel the invaders.

I guess failure is why the Ukranians are still there.

 

[TimFitz]

Wrong.
NATO has always been the bad guys.
NATO is just a new name for the Colonial Imperialists, the French, British, and the US replaced Spain after the Spanish American war.
WWI for example, was entirely caused by the Allies, who not only illegally assassinated Archduke Ferdinand and his wife, but then the French illegally invaded Southern Germany.

The Germans were illegally forced to surrender in WWI even though they still won the battlefield, by illegally sinking civilian food ships and starving the Germany population, in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

They the Treaty of Versailles was totally criminal, stealing over half of Germany, all their colonies, shipping, etc.

The "aggression" is the bribes by the US to the ethnic Polish generals in Kyiv, to steal the Ukraine from Russia.
The Ukraine historically has always been the heart of Russia, with Kyiv being the capital of Russia from 900 AD to 1200 AD when it had to be moved to Moscow in order to avoid the Mongol invasion.

The Ukraine has always been inside the Russian defense grid, so there is no way Russia can ever allow the Ukraine to join NATO, and illegally place a nuclear first strike force inside of Russian defenses.
The violator is entirely the Ukraine and the US, not Russia.
Russia happens to be the "good guys" in this case.

Are you a Russian troll too? We have at least two others on this thread.

 

[martybegan]

He gave the store away without talking to Zelinsky. Trump never once mentioned Ukrainian participation in his talks with aputin over Ukraine’s fate.

you are playing games now.

Trump gave the store away without asking Zelinsky at all.

I guess failure is why the Ukranians are still there.

He gave nothing away, the talks haven't even started.

"Being "still there" in your own country but having someone else occupy almost all the parts the other side wants isn't an accomplishment or a path to victory.

 

[Rigby5]

Anything less than totally independent Ukraine in its existing borders would make them a slave state to Russia.

A fight for democracy is always in the interest of the United States and any democratic country.

Wrong.
The Ukraine has always been ethnic Russian and part of Russia.
The Ukraine legally elected pro-Russian politicians in 2012, and we illegally bribed the Maidan Coup in 2014 to end the democracy in the Ukraine.
We illegally had all the pro-Russian politicians murdered, imprisoned, or exiled.

Nor has the US ever been very "democratic", starting illegal wars based on lies, like the Spanish American war, WWI, WWII, the Korean war, Vietnam, Desert Storm, the invasion of Grenada, the invasion of Panama, the invasion of Iraq, the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Libya, the invasion of Syria, etc.

 

[TimFitz]

The Ukraine was a US puppet since the Maidan Coup of 2014, and Russia clearly is going to win back the entire country.

You must be ecstatic over Trump’s duplicity.

After all, Trump told Putin he could keep his gains and that Trump would make sure that the rest of Ukrsinevwas prevented from rearming or rebuilding until your bosses have time to replenish their army and invade the rest of the country.

 

[justoffal]

Zelensky lost January 20th

Right now he's not even the legal president of the country.

 

[Rigby5]

Anything less than totally independent Ukraine in its existing borders would make them a slave state to Russia.

A fight for democracy is always in the interest of the United States and any democratic country.

Wrong.
The Ukraine has always been the main part of Russia.

 

[TimFitz]

Wrong.
The Ukraine has always been ethnic Russian and part of Russia.
The Ukraine legally elected pro-Russian politicians in 2012, and we illegally bribed the Maidan Coup in 2014 to end the democracy in the Ukraine.
We illegally had all the pro-Russian politicians murdered, imprisoned, or exiled.

Nor has the US ever been very "democratic", starting illegal wars based on lies, like the Spanish American war, WWI, WWII, the Korean war, Vietnam, Desert Storm, the invasion of Grenada, the invasion of Panama, the invasion of Iraq, the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Libya, the invasion of Syria, etc.

Ukraine has never been a willing part of Russia. Conquest and slaughter has been the means of Russian domination.

That was true in 1453, and it is true now.

And Trump is on Russia’s side.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Are you a Russian troll too? We have at least two others on this thread.

We have multiple assholes in this thread, you included, yet you are the one complaining, how come?

 

[TimFitz]

Right now he's not even the legal president of the country.

Because you said so?

Still singing Putin’s song?

Trumpster are a disgrace to the United States and everything we stand for in the world.

 

[martybegan]

Wrong.
The Ukraine has always been the main part of Russia.

The Ukrainians disagree with that.

You can't count the ethnic Russians moved into the Ukraine before and after WWII.

 

[Rigby5]

Are you a Russian troll too? We have at least two others on this thread.

There have really been only 3 revolutions against the aristocracies that run the world.
There was the US revolution, but that was totally corrupted and sold out by 1880 or so.
There was the French revolution, but the Jacobians were murdered the empires of Napoleon took over.
The third is the Russian revolution, and is the only real republic left.

Look at how we tried to install Chang Kai Shek as dictator in China, Syngman Rhee as dictator in Korea, Batista as dictator in Cuba, Diem as dictator in Vietnam, the Shah as dictator in Iran, Samosa as dictator in Nicaragua, Marcos as dictator in the Philippines, etc.
It is Russia who stood up for what is right and tried to stop us.
And they did not make a cent on any of it.

 

[martybegan]

Ukraine has never been a willing part of Russia. Conquest and slaughter has been the means of Russian domination.

That was true in 1453, and it is true now.

And Trump is on Russia’s side.

Trump is not on Russia's side, he just doesn't see the benefit of continuing the current stalemate.

 

[martybegan]

There have really been only 3 revolutions against the aristocracies that run the world.
There was the US revolution, but that was totally corrupted and sold out by 1880 or so.
There was the French revolution, but the Jacobians were murdered the empires of Napoleon took over.
The third is the Russian revolution, and is the only real republic left.

Look at how we tried to install Chang Kai Shek as dictator in China, Syngman Rhee as dictator in Korea, Batista as dictator in Cuba, Diem as dictator in Vietnam, the Shah as dictator in Iran, Samosa as dictator in Nicaragua, Marcos as dictator in the Philippines, etc.
It is Russia who stood up for what is right and tried to stop us.
And they did not make a cent on any of it.

The American Revolution was one aristocracy revolting against another.

The Russians are not a free republic, and you forget that non-democratic Soviet Union phase they went through.

 

[Rigby5]

You must be ecstatic over Trump’s duplicity.

After all, Trump told Putin he could keep his gains and that Trump would make sure that the rest of Ukrsinevwas prevented from rearming or rebuilding until your bosses have time to replenish their army and invade the rest of the country.

Wrong.
The Ukraine is historically part of Russia.
The ethnic Polish of Kyiv were the defeated descendants of the Polish invasion of 1700.
They are not the legitimate natives of the Ukraine.

 

[Rigby5]

Because you said so?

Still singing Putin’s song?

Trumpster are a disgrace to the United States and everything we stand for in the world.

Wrong.
I am far left wing, progressive, liberal, but Trump is doing better in the Ukraine than Biden did.
Biden bribed the Maidan Coup, which was totally illegal.

 

[martybegan]

Wrong.
The Ukraine is historically part of Russia.
The ethnic Polish of Kyiv were the defeated descendants of the Polish invasion of 1700.
They are not the legitimate natives of the Ukraine.

Part of the Russian empire maybe, but nor Russia.

You think the same of the Baltic States?

 

[Rigby5]

The Ukrainians disagree with that.

You can't count the ethnic Russians moved into the Ukraine before and after WWII.

False.
The only Ukrainians who do not claim to be Russian are the defeated descendants of the failed Polish invasion of 1700.
No ethnic Russians moved into the Ukraine before or after WWII.
The Ukraine has always been ethnic Russian since 900 AD.