Ukraine faces losing dignity or US support with Trump’s plan to end war, Zelensky says

Now, when the result of suicidal policy of Mertz became more and more obvious, it is. At least according YouGov polls.


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Disturbing, to say the least.

Meanwhile, Poland and Latvia, crews are tearing up the eas-west Russian gauge railroads and removing the ballast.
 
If Russia bordered the United States and invaded Canada, you’d understand very clearly.

You don’t know any history, and can’t seem to be able to read a map.

NOONE anywhere in Europe is in any doubt as to the Russian threat.

You, and your beloved fuhrer support Russian conquest and expansionism.

You want the Iron Curtsin to ring back down. Just as Putin intends.
I understand fully well that the U.S. and Canada are on North America. If Putin invaded Canada, I'd support U.S. intervention, and I certainly wouldn't be crying for the French to come help or send money and weapons.

If they did send help, I would express gratitude (name one European leader besides Zelensky who did that), and I would understand that the help would not be unlimited in time or scope.
 
Disturbing, to say the least.

Meanwhile, Poland and Latvia, crews are tearing up the eas-west Russian gauge railroads and removing the ballast.
Yep. You pay them - they do what you said them to do. May be, they'll even sell their compatriots as cannon fodder, too. Their politicians don't work for their people. They work for those, who pay them. If you don't pay them - they may prefer to live in peace and tolerance with their ethnic minorities and neighbours.
 
I understand fully well that the U.S. and Canada are on North America. If Putin invaded Canada, I'd support U.S. intervention,
Even if Putin's and Xi's intervention was more or less "proxy-aggression"? Like, say, "Revolution of Canadian Dignity" backed with Chinese money and Russian militants?

Do I understand correctly, that the US decision-makers can't allow deployment of Russian and Chinese ballistic missiles in Canada whatever Canadian regime think about it, and that ordinary US WASPs can't tolerate "Eastern terror" against Canadian WASPs? Whatever POTUS decide - American volunteers will come in Canada to support English-speaking Canadians in their fight against Chinese and Muslim terror?
 
If they did send help, I would express gratitude (name one European leader besides Zelensky who did that), and I would understand that the help would not be unlimited in time or scope.
You see - significant part of Europeans belive that Ukrainian conflict is a kind of American proxy-war against both Russia and Europe. They don't give a shit about what language people speak in Mariupol or Poltava, but they feel with their own wallets the price of American gas and American weapons.

Would you be that gratitude to France, if you think, that it were French officials who stirred up situation in Québec to the level of local war?
 
Yep. You pay them - they do what you said them to do. May be, they'll even sell their compatriots as cannon fodder, too. Their politicians don't work for their people. They work for those, who pay them. If you don't pay them - they may prefer to live in peace and tolerance with their ethnic minorities and neighbours.
You should work on your Elglish.
 
You see - significant part of Europeans belive that Ukrainian conflict is a kind of American proxy-war against both Russia and Europe. They don't give a shit about what language people speak in Mariupol or Poltava, but they feel with their own wallets the price of American gas and American weapons.

Would you be that gratitude to France, if you think, that it were French officials who stirred up situation in Québec to the level of local war?
You started the war.
 
I understand fully well that the U.S. and Canada are on North America. If Putin invaded Canada, I'd support U.S. intervention, and I certainly wouldn't be crying for the French to come help or send money and weapons.

If they did send help, I would express gratitude (name one European leader besides Zelensky who did that), and I would understand that the help would not be unlimited in time or scope.
I guess you’re so devoted to Trump’s wholesale retreat from world leadership that you missed the point.

Russia stands on the east flank of NATO.

There isn’t a person alive in the EU who doesn’t understand the Russian threat.

Although the generation that was alive when the Russians were poised to March to the Elglish Channel is largely gone, their ancestors lived by the Iron Curtain for another 35 years.

They are well aware of Russia’s territorial ambitions, and it’s desire to rebuild its empire.

It was the United States that kept the Russians in check with the Marshal Plan and the establishment ofvNATO.

It is Trump who works to destroy or undermine NATO and bless Moscow’s ambitions.

When Trump was elected in 2016, I predicted that he would work steadily to serve Moscow’s aims, and work just as hard at betraying the legacy of Roosevelt and Churchill, and retreat into isolationism.

People like you condemned me for that prediction.

It has long since come true, and you’re here cheering for American disgrace and Trump duplicity.
 
I guess you’re so devoted to Trump’s wholesale retreat from world leadership that you missed the point.

Russia stands on the east flank of NATO.

There isn’t a person alive in the EU who doesn’t understand the Russian threat.

Although the generation that was alive when the Russians were poised to March to the Elglish Channel is largely gone, their ancestors lived by the Iron Curtain for another 35 years.

They are well aware of Russia’s territorial ambitions, and it’s desire to rebuild its empire.

It was the United States that kept the Russians in check with the Marshal Plan and the establishment ofvNATO.

It is Trump who works to destroy or undermine NATO and bless Moscow’s ambitions.

When Trump was elected in 2016, I predicted that he would work steadily to serve Moscow’s aims, and work just as hard at betraying the legacy of Roosevelt and Churchill, and retreat into isolationism.

People like you condemned me for that prediction.

It has long since come true, and you’re here cheering for American disgrace and Trump duplicity.
Could you explain in your own words, why you believe the united states has an obligation to take sides in the endless wars of europe?

Do you believe that we should send troops to fight the Ruskies as we sent them to fight the germans on behalf of the russians?
 
Could you explain in your own words, why you believe the united states has an obligation to take sides in the endless wars of europe?

Do you believe that we should send troops to fight the Ruskies as we sent them to fight the germans on behalf of the russians?
Because the United States was the anchor of the Weatern Alliance, which has included the aunited States and Western Europe for nearly 80 years. Most of the world’s nations identify with the Western Alliance. It has been the core of Americans power and influence for 75 years. Longer than most people alive today can remember. Folks like you take it for granted.

I do not believe it will be necessary to send American forces to fight Russians. You try and limit the discussion to this dishonest either/or fallacy. You aren’t the first Trump disciple to try that.

The United States will be a significantly less powerful country without any allies.

Which is precisely what the Russians want. They have wanted it since 1945.

Trump supports the Russian invasion. He has done everything he can to throw roadblocks in front of Zelinsky.

serving Russian interests from the start.

They just rope a doped Trump into promoting a peace plan thst tey wrote and dictated it to the White House (and to the press, so Trump had to jump in front of it.)
 
Because the United States was the anchor of the Weatern Alliance,
We have had that role for far too long. Seventy-five years, if you don't count WWI and the years before we declared war on Germany during which it was (rightly) assumed that we would step in again to save Europe.
The United States will be a significantly less powerful country without any allies.
Not at all true. Our so-called "allies" are nothing more than our protectorates. They are a drain on our power, not an enhancement of it.
Which is precisely what the Russians want. They have wanted it since 1945.

Trump supports the Russian invasion. He has done everything he can to throw roadblocks in front of Zelinsky.

serving Russian interests from the start.

They just rope a doped Trump into promoting a peace plan thst tey wrote and dictated it to the White House (and to the press, so Trump had to jump in front of it.)
Roadblocks? He was the one who sent lethal aid to Ukraine - before the Russian invasion - after Obama sending only blankets and first aid kits. You are deliberately making assertions counter to fact.

If Trump is throwing roadblocks to Ukraine's defense, why did the Ruskies not invade until his first term was over? What sense does it make to invade when Joe Biden was in office and was sure to give harsh speeches against them, plus send a little aid?
 
We have had that role for far too long. Seventy-five years, if you don't count WWI and the years before we declared war on Germany during which it was (rightly) assumed that we would step in again to save Europe.

Who says we have led the world for too long?

You won’t enjoy living in a world where the United Staes is no longer on top. You won’t like it when countries that you thought of as protectorates, thumb their noses at us meaningfully. Small gestures like tMI-6’s decision to stop sharing intelligence in the Carribian are tiny in comparison to what will happen when former allies reject major American initiatives.

This is more down to Trump’s consistant duplicity, his disloyalty, incompetence and bad faith.

His ugly American act plays to his cult, and the Fox types think it’s great.

In the world, every time Trump does it, he gets smaller and less serious. A President who can be safely ignored.

No one will resent that more than folks like you, the very folks who cheer for failure and cowardice.
\
Not at all true. Our so-called "allies" are nothing more than our protectorates. They are a drain on our power, not an enhancement of it.

Where do you get that notion. The GDPof the EU is roughly the same as the United States. Together, we collectively are the richest block in the world.

Cut that in half, Like you want to, and the Russians will look more powerful (particularly if Trump gives Ukraine away). A Russian victory in Ukraine would be the biggest boost for Russian expansion in 80 years. Not to mention that it would be a huge boon to Chinese ambitions.

You want to give it to them. Why? Apparantly because Trump said so.
Roadblocks? He was the one who sent lethal aid to Ukraine - before the Russian invasion - after Obama sending only blankets and first aid kits. You are deliberately making assertions counter to fact.

Trump made noise about that aid, and then sat on it…..for months and months.

After he was out of office, he used his ability to bully the lickspittles in the GOP Congress to sit on Biden;s aid package for over a year.

Of course, if you were a real American, the question you would be asking is why Trump isn’t sending lethal aid to Ukraine NOW.

If Trump is throwing roadblocks to Ukraine's defense, why did the Ruskies not invade until his first term was over? What sense does it make to invade when Joe Biden was in office and was sure to give harsh speeches against them, plus send a little aid?

I think there are a number of factors.

Trump had been driving wedges between the United States and NATO since late in 2016.

He started his Administration by trying to return the safe houses the Obama administration confiscated from the Russians.

He routinely sided with Putin and engaged in a number of stunts that made him appear subservient to Moscow.

On his way out, he launched the first political insurrection Imus history.

Planning for the Russian invasion began about two weeks later, and was well underway before the evacuation of Afghanistan.

Which Putin interpreted as another sign of American weakness, leaving a power vacuum.

Of course, once the invasion was launched, Trump publicly endorsed it.

So much for us standing with our allies.
 
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Because the United States was the anchor of the Weatern Alliance, which has included the aunited States and Western Europe for nearly 80 years. Most of the world’s nations identify with the Western Alliance. It has been the core of Americans power and influence for 75 years. Longer than most people alive today can remember. Folks like you take it for granted.

I do not believe it will be necessary to send American forces to fight Russians. You try and limit the discussion to this dishonest either/or fallacy. You aren’t the first Trump disciple to try that.

The United States will be a significantly less powerful country without any allies.

Which is precisely what the Russians want. They have wanted it since 1945.

Trump supports the Russian invasion. He has done everything he can to throw roadblocks in front of Zelinsky.

serving Russian interests from the start.

They just rope a doped Trump into promoting a peace plan thst tey wrote and dictated it to the White House (and to the press, so Trump had to jump in front of it.)
so by the very same metric, you should have no problem with 'boots on the ground' in Venezuela, where Putin has just signed agreements w/ Maduro Tim.....~S~
 
so by the very same metric, you should have no problem with 'boots on the ground' in Venezuela, where Putin has just signed agreements w/ Maduro Tim.....~S~

Putin's agreements are worth shit since 2022 and everyone knows it, look no further than Iran and Syria.
 
so by the very same metric, you should have no problem with 'boots on the ground' in Venezuela, where Putin has just signed agreements w/ Maduro Tim.....~S~

I didn’t say anything about boots on the ground.

Comparing Trump’s phony war with Venezuela to the Russian invasion of Ukraine is pathetic.
 
Who says we have led the world for too long?

You won’t enjoy living in a world where the United Staes is no longer on top.
Oh, we'd still be on top. I just don't want to keep "leading" by providing them with money and defnse. We'd be on top of the top, in fact, since we'd no longer be dragged down by all of our protectorates.

But, I don't actually mind still having countries like South Korea, and Taiwan be protected by us. Those countries have value to the United States, whereas Europe has been an 85 year drain on our resources, with little in return to show for it. We don't even have their respect, the news constantly runs stories about this leader or that leader mocking the U.S. president.
You won’t like it when countries that you thought of as protectorates, thumb their noses at us meaningfully. Small gestures like tMI-6’s decision to stop sharing intelligence in the Carribian are tiny in comparison to what will happen when former allies reject major American initiatives.
Let them take care of themselves then and we'll take care of ourselves. What initiative would they have the right to reject, once our initiative are based on the needs of the American people instead a desire to be the world's most unappreciated world leader?
This is more down to Trump’s consistant duplicity, his disloyalty, incompetence and bad faith.

His ugly American act plays to his cult, and the Fox types think it’s great.

In the world, every time Trump does it, he gets smaller and less serious. A President who can be safely ignored.

No one will resent that more than folks like you, the very folks who cheer for failure and cowardice.
\


Where do you get that notion. The GDPof the EU is roughly the same as the United States. Together, we collectively are the richest block in the world.

Cut that in half, Like you want to, and the Russians will look more powerful (particularly if Trump gives Ukraine away). A Russian victory in Ukraine would be the biggest boost for Russian expansion in 80 years. Not to mention that it would be a huge boon to Chinese ambitions.

You want to give it to them. Why? Apparantly because Trump said so.


Trump made noise about that aid, and then sat on it…..for months and months.

After he was out of office, he used his ability to bully the lickspittles in the GOP Congress to sit on Biden;s aid package for over a year.

Of course, if you were a real American, the question you would be asking is why Trump isn’t sending lethal aid to Ukraine NOW.



I think there are a number of factors.

Trump had been driving wedges between the United States and NATO since late in 2016.

He started his Administration by trying to return the safe houses the Obama administration confiscated from the Russians.

He routinely sided with Putin and engaged in a number of stunts that made him appear subservient to Moscow.

On his way out, he launched the first political insurrection Imus history.

Planning for the Russian invasion began about two weeks later, and was well underway before the evacuation of Afghanistan.

Which Putin interpreted as another sign of American weakness, leaving a power vacuum.

Of course, once the invasion was launched, Trump publicly endorsed it.

So much for us standing with our allies.
Wait, you're blaming the Trump Administration for the invasion that happened under Biden?

So, this is just "Wah-wah-wah, I hate Trump."
 
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