Ukraine faces losing dignity or US support with Trump’s plan to end war, Zelensky says

[Zavulon]

Who says we have led the world for too long?

You won’t enjoy living in a world where the United Staes is no longer on top. You won’t like it when countries that you thought of as protectorates, thumb their noses at us meaningfully. Small gestures like tMI-6’s decision to stop sharing intelligence in the Carribian are tiny in comparison to what will happen when former allies reject major American initiatives.

You see - America isn't on top already. The behaviour model - "You do what we said you to do and we protect you" don't work anymore. Europe already said "f#ck you" and do what they want to do. And now the USA haven't many leverages to change the situation. One of those leverages is Russia.

America can say: "Do whatever you want to do, if you are that smart and strong, but if you are getting in troubles we are not defending you". May be, it will force them to change their behaviour and return under American control and make NATO stronger and more effective. May be, it will be the end of NATO and, even may be, it will be the end of Europe (at least current European regimes) as we know it. But the USA will become much stronger and wealthier because of it, and the stronger USA will be able to find another allies or increase control over current allies.

Or, America can say: "Do whatever you want to do, and if you are getting in troubles we'll fight for you anyway". And it will make the USA nothing but a hired gun of Europe. May be even not "hired", because in the terms of economy America sponsor Europe, not vice versa. And that will be end of America. Making America expendable asset of Europe means losing even American independence.
If Europe doesn't get the fair share of expenses and, say, continue buy Russian gas and oil - there is nothing good for America in it.

This is more down to Trump’s consistant duplicity, his disloyalty, incompetence and bad faith.

Faith in what? In the stupid Nazi propaganda that Russia is populated by a bunch of degenerative Untermenchen and can be easily defeated? The Russians proved many times that it is a lie. Americans believe in different things.

His ugly American act plays to his cult, and the Fox types think it’s great.

In the world, every time Trump does it, he gets smaller and less serious. A President who can be safely ignored.

No one will resent that more than folks like you, the very folks who cheer for failure and cowardice.
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Americans are pragmatic and, mostly, sane people. They won't commit mass murder-suicide just because the voices in the head of a modern European führer said them to do so.

Where do you get that notion. The GDPof the EU is roughly the same as the United States. Together, we collectively are the richest block in the world.

Yep. There is a lot of fat there, but this fat should be melted into muscles. Into real industrial power, into real ships, weapons and vechicles, into really trained soldiers and sailors. You know, no pain - no gain.

Cut that in half, Like you want to, and the Russians will look more powerful (particularly if Trump gives Ukraine away).

No. What is good for Americans in Europe getting wealthier, if this wealth is protected by poor Americans? What is reason for American soldiers and engineers to defend houses of Europeans, if as result they will be homeless themselves?

A Russian victory in Ukraine would be the biggest boost for Russian expansion in 80 years. Not to mention that it would be a huge boon to Chinese ambitions.

And, what is more important - it will be a good lesson for Europeans that they should follow American orders and buy American weapons.

You want to give it to them. Why? Apparantly because Trump said so.

If there is the choice between kicking Europeans back in obedience and forcing them to melt some of their fat into muscles and, as another option, risking lifes of American civilians and soldiers with obvious loss of life quality to allow Europeans continue live safe and wealth... The choice is obvious for any American patriot.

Trump made noise about that aid, and then sat on it…..for months and months.

After he was out of office, he used his ability to bully the lickspittles in the GOP Congress to sit on Biden;s aid package for over a year.

Of course, if you were a real American, the question you would be asking is why Trump isn’t sending lethal aid to Ukraine NOW.

It's simple. Because it would be meaningless.

I think there are a number of factors.

Trump had been driving wedges between the United States and NATO since late in 2016.

He started his Administration by trying to return the safe houses the Obama administration confiscated from the Russians.

He routinely sided with Putin and engaged in a number of stunts that made him appear subservient to Moscow.

On his way out, he launched the first political insurrection Imus history.

Planning for the Russian invasion began about two weeks later, and was well underway before the evacuation of Afghanistan.

Which Putin interpreted as another sign of American weakness, leaving a power vacuum.

Of course, once the invasion was launched, Trump publicly endorsed it.

So much for us standing with our allies.

America can stand with allies, not instead of them. If Europe doesn't want to risk their wealth and safety, why America should?

 

[Ringo]

Wait, you're blaming the Trump Administration for the invasion that happened under Biden?

An old, cheap trick used by “democratic” countries. “It's not us! It's the Democrats/Republicans!”
That is precisely why the US cannot be trusted in foreign policy. The word of an American representative is worthless.
On the other hand, the word of the USSR, given by the only party during its existence, was ironclad. The USSR paid its debts regularly and kept its promises.
It is almost the same with today's Russia, where Putin has been at the helm for almost 25 years.

 

[Seymour Flops]

An old, cheap trick used by “democratic” countries. “It's not us! It's the Democrats/Republicans!”
That is precisely why the US cannot be trusted in foreign policy. The word of an American representative is worthless.
On the other hand, the word of the USSR, given by the only party during its existence, was ironclad. The USSR paid its debts regularly and kept its promises.
It is almost the same with today's Russia, where Putin has been at the helm for almost 25 years.

Great!

Sound like Europe will benefit greatly from a Russia in ascendance.

Or if they don't think so, they are welcome to join Ukraine's fight.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Or if they don't think so, they are welcome to join Ukraine's fight.

Ukraine's fight? It's the Europe's fight by the stupid Ukrainian hands from the start. Ukies got nothing of their own except the debts generations to come will have to repay for ages.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Ringo]

In Odessa, police are conducting raids on fake Jews.
Ukrainians have started pretending to be Jewish to avoid mobilization and walk freely around the city, according tolocal media outlets.

 

[Ringo]