Yes or no? NATO PTOVOKED this war.

[RetiredGySgt]

It would be goofy of me to try to explain this to you. One can only assume a certain amount of context in conversations between adults.

Ohh shut up the comparison is valid.

 

[JohnDB]

This whole notion of "NATO expansion" being a threat to Russia is a bad piece of rhetoric at best.

There's a huge difference between defensive weapons and offensive weaponry. NATO is all about defensive weapons...not offensive.
NATO is about Anti-missile defense systems and tank/armored vehicle denial systems. Yes there are rifles and etc...but these weapons have nothing to do with acquisition of territory. (Exactly like what Putin is doing with his Offensive weaponry)

So you can tell Putin is lying right off the bat by this statement alone.

What has happened is that Russia was getting outbid for the exports of Ukraine. The electricity and other energy reserves as well as the groceries and technology products that Ukraine produces were getting much better prices from Europe than Russia was willing to pay.

So now we have to watch as an entire nation becomes enslaved by Russia. And we have a choice of letting it happen or not.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So, petty political interest over national interest?

We have no national interest there. Frankly, you have to wonder why Biden, Pelosi, Kerry and Romney all have kids working in Ukraine

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Oh I'm not defending Putin at all...
I'm attacking the decision to choose war when it could have been avoided.
Ukraine would have many legal recourses even with the Russian Parliament. I feel Zelensky chose war because he was pressured to by NATO.

...being pressured by Soros and the WEF

 

[JohnDB]

We have no national interest there. Frankly, you have to wonder why Biden, Pelosi, Kerry and Romney all have kids working in Ukraine

Actually we do.
Tractor Supply/Dollar General use their technology extensively for programming needs...they aren't the only ones either. Elon Musk uses their rocket engines engineering for his uses as well.

Then there's the groceries they produce which feeds the Baltic/Slavic nations. Their electricity helps power the German Economy which BiogeN is a part of. (Partners of Pfizer) Then there's the precision machining of steel products and Uranium processing facilities which power the Nuclear Energy industry. Then there's the Semiconductor industry that was rapidly expanding there. (Educated and skilled population)

They were very much a portion of Western Economics...and rapidly growing.

 

[Oddball]

Here is a well written and balanced article on the subject. No white hats here people.

Many predicted Nato expansion would lead to war. Those warnings were ignored | Ted Galen Carpenter

Jo

yes

 

[Oddball]

Zalensky's stupid decision has cost him the destruction of an entire nation and the displacement of his people.
He's an idiot.

Jo

Zelensky has been goaded into playing tough guy by the west.

Ukraine needs to be neutral.

 

[Decus]

Zelensky has been goaded into playing tough guy by the west.

Ukraine needs to be neutral.

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. If they choose to be neutral like Switzerland it should be left to them to decide.

Once you demand that they begin to give up their rights in order to placate a dictator they are no longer sovereign.

.

 

[Oddball]

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. If they choose to be neutral like Switzerland it should be left to them to decide.

Once you demand that they begin to give up their rights in order to placate a dictator they are no longer sovereign.

.

Switzerland isn't a border nation with Russia.

How would you feel about Mexico making a military pact with China, and having nukes on mobile launchers moved there?

 

[Decus]

Switzerland isn't a border nation with Russia.

How would you feel about Mexico making a military pact with China, and having nukes on mobile launchers moved there?

The Ukraine gave up its nukes or did you forget that??? To my knowledge no one is contemplating equipping the Ukraine with nukes in the future.

If Mexico wants to sign a defense pact with Russia or China I'm fine with that.

The right to self-determination is fundamental to our very existence. Deny Ukraine that right and our whole system and way of life is a joke.

.

 

[Dayton3]

Not per-say, but it was the potential encroachment of NATO that did. Putin and most Russians believe that only Ukraine is preventing Russia to be a front-line state.

If Russia is so strong why should that matter?

 

[Dayton3]

Switzerland isn't a border nation with Russia.

How would you feel about Mexico making a military pact with China, and having nukes on mobile launchers moved there?

Why would it? Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia are already members of NATO right next to Russia and the U.S. doesn't deploy nuclear weapons there.

 

[Sunni Man]

Great article about the geopolitical gamesmanship of Ukraine and America's role in exacerbating the situation by antagonizing Russia's Putin to take action.
Ukraine’s Deadly Gamble

 

[martybegan]

No, NATO did not provoke this war

Considering NATO is by treaty only a defensive organization it's hard for it to be considered "Provoking"

Even if Poland decided to invade say Belarus, NATO wouldn't need to get involved because the treaty provisions only come into play when a signing member is attacked.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Ukraine is a sovereign nation. If they choose to be neutral like Switzerland it should be left to them to decide.

Once you demand that they begin to give up their rights in order to placate a dictator they are no longer sovereign.

.

Soros and the Globalists own Zelensky

 

[konradv]

We have no national interest there. Frankly, you have to wonder why Biden, Pelosi, Kerry and Romney all have kids working in Ukraine

They aren’t American nationals? You can’t seriously be saying that they’re the only ones! Not a single scion of the R class?

 

[Darkwind]

Ukraine is not without corruption. They do bear responsibility for the mistakes they made in lowering the temperature before the invasion.

^^^ That is not an endorsement of Russia.

The entire discussion is a waste of time because the left are going to scream that if you don't believe like they do, you're some kind of Putin bitch. Like they do with everything.

America has no business being involved in a hot war in Europe. FULL FUCKING STOP.

If you bleed so much for Ukraine, then suck it up and do what is needed to pull the rug out from under Putin and embargo all of his oil exports. No money, no honey.

 

[Dalia]

Putin is simply after hydrocarbon reserves in Ukraine. The known gas and oil reserves in Ukraine are mostly east of Dnieper river. So the Russians are likely going to at the very least take nearly every oblast east of the Dnieper river and overthrow the government in Kiev.

That's also one of the reasons that Obama/Biden gave Putin Crimea in 2014. Lots of offshore hydrocarbon reserves. Plus it gives Putin a sense of nationalistic Russian pride to control the home of the Russian Black Sea Fleet since around the late 16th century. It's very strategically located.

Putin owns Biden.

That's why you shouldn't vote for corrupt brain damaged career politicians like Quid Pro Pedo Joe Biden in the first place.

I think they are all a bunch of looney tunes ,they can't gouvern a nation. Macron keep on speaking with Putin and he comes at the French tv to tell us that thing are getting better to then come back to said that it is a lot worse, he was acting the same way with covid .

 

[Mac-7]

He waited for 2 months for some assurances that weapons would not be placed in Ukraine...

Now you are just making ip stuff that you have no way of knowing

 

[Mac-7]

Putin is not Stalin....doesn't make him a good guy...

Actually he compares more closely to hitler