WTF are you talking about? Russia nears victory...

[justoffal]

There is absolutely no excuse for the horror visited on the innocent Civilians in Ukraine.
They were not given a say by either country.

The idea that Russia is floundering badly in Ukraine simply does not add up. As each day passes the nation is being dismantled from within. I'm not sure how this adds up to a rallying cry for Ukranians.

The combat has been deadly...but then again the invader always suffers the greater losses at first. This is not an alignment with Putin just a pragmatic observation seeking to avoid false hope based on weakly reasoned positions. What the real numbers are we will probably never actually know. Suffice it to say Russia is paying a serious price for the invasion. That however does not translate into a win for UKRAINE. Even if they do eventually manage to push the Russians out what exactly did they win? Self respect? They are still very much on the losing end here and would do well to make terms. It is unforgivable that Zelensky chose war over the option of signing a few stupid papers....DUMB!

The people of that Nation deserved better than this.

Jo

 

[MisterBeale]

The idea that Russia is floundering badly in Ukraine simply does not add up. As each day passes the nation is being dismantled from within. I'm not sure how this adds up to a rallying cry for Ukranians.

On maps wars and hate-filled mobs “canceling Russia”​

On maps wars and hate-filled mobs “canceling Russia” | The Vineyard of the Saker

A bird's eye view of the vineyard

thesaker.is

"First, the obligatory map of the day:

Now I need to make a note about maps, as some clearly struggle with the concept. Okay, first, a map is NOT a faithful representation of reality. But it is just that, a REPRESENTATION. Which means that depending on the author of the map and the intended public, two different maps representing the same situation on the ground can look very different.

That, my friends, is *normal*.

When preparing a map, the first thing you need to ask yourself is what is your goal. A military map will typically be more accurate, but it will be confusing to most people. Now a “what happened today” like the one above does not have any other purpose than to give you, the non-specialized reader, an idea, a feeling for what is going on.

Check out this map for example:

And, finally, please check this western map (which I already posted yesterday):

<snip>

". . . . Well duh! Did you really expect a Russian map to actually give out exactly the positions for the Russian forward echelons?!?!

Instead what we get is various pseudo pro-Russian websites dismissing all the “Russian propaganda” maps while promoting other, putatively not pro-Russian propaganda, maps. The truth? These websites are run by civilians with exactly no relevant education or experience and their goals are purely financial (clickbaiting) and ideological (serving the interests of the 5th or 6th, depending on the case, columns).

As for the real owners (and masters) of these websites they are, of course, Western PSYOPs. Until just about now, the western PSYOPs mission was simple “flood the Internet with info showing the Russians have failed, the Ukies are winning, Putin is sobbing and hugging a pillow under his bed“.

If that means declaring that 3000 Russian aircraft have been shot down – no problem.

So, for the first two weeks, the point of maps from the point of view of western PYSOPs was simple. Now that the “map wars” are coming to an end (at least in the mind of those who can read a map), the main theme will change. It won’t be “the heroic Ukie cyborgs destroyed 3 Airborne Divisions” but it will be “drunken Russians bombing a maternity hospital, murdering all the innocent babies and raping nurses” (the more cliches, the “better”).

And, who knows, I would not be surprised if tomorrow’s CNN’s or BBC’s would be “Russian invaders toss all the babies from the incubators in Volnovakha”!

Wait, what? Did we not see that already?

Oh yes, I guess we did, at least the older ones who remember the Gulf War…

You catch my drift

So, the map wars are coming to an end and welcome to the gore wars! . . . . ."

 

[SmokeALib]

There is absolutely no excuse for the horror visited on the innocent Civilians in Ukraine.
They were not given a say by either country.

The idea that Russia is floundering badly in Ukraine simply does not add up. As each day passes the nation is being dismantled from within. I'm not sure how this adds up to a rallying cry for Ukranians.

The combat has been deadly...but then again the invader always suffers the greater losses at first. This is not an alignment with Putin just a pragmatic observation seeking to avoid false hope based on weakly reasoned positions. What the real numbers are we will probably never actually know. Suffice it to say Russia is paying a serious price for the invasion. That however does not translate into a win for UKRAINE. Even if they do eventually manage to push the Russians out what exactly did they win? Self respect? They are still very much on the losing end here and would do well to make terms. It is unforgivable that Zelensky chose war over the option of signing a few stupid papers....DUMB!

The people of that Nation deserved better than this.

Jo

Political scientist Francis Fukuyama says you're wrong:

Preparing for Defeat

I’m writing this from Skopje, North Macedonia, where I’ve been for the last week teaching one of our Leadership Academy for Development [https://cddrl.fsi.stanford.edu/lad/events] courses. Following the Ukraine war is no different here in terms of available information, except that I’m in

www.americanpurpose.com

 

[MisterBeale]

Political scientist Francis Fukuyama says you're wrong:

Preparing for Defeat

I’m writing this from Skopje, North Macedonia, where I’ve been for the last week teaching one of our Leadership Academy for Development [https://cddrl.fsi.stanford.edu/lad/events] courses. Following the Ukraine war is no different here in terms of available information, except that I’m in

www.americanpurpose.com

I appreciate that perspective, and he is a well known political scientist.

Though, I do wish he would give some idea as to how he comes by his perceptions as though they are rising above the fog of war. . . . ???

In both the OP, and in my post, we recognize those inherent difficulties. This guy does not, he just repeats the war propaganda as though it is true. . .

Why? What gives us indication that it is?

I am not saying that the blogs and intel that come from the east are any more correct, they too could just be Russian propaganda.

Who knows which numbers and which narratives are correct. . . but do we believe this guy and our media because we want that to be true, or do we have evidence?

 

[justoffal]

I appreciate that perspective, and he is a well known political scientist.

Though, I do wish he would give some idea as to how he comes by his perceptions as though they are rising above the fog of war. . . . ???

In both the OP, and in my post, we recognize those inherent difficulties. This guy does not, he just repeats the war propaganda as though it is true. . .

Why? What gives us indication that it is?

I am not saying that the blogs and intel that come from the east are any more correct, they too could just be Russian propaganda.

Who knows which numbers and which narratives are correct. . . but do we believe this guy and our media because we want that to be true, or do we have evidence?

Even if you accept that Russia has taken say 15,000 casualties...that leaves 160,000 active Russian Troops in the country. I'm pretty sure no one is going to dispute that. All of the major cities have been trampled except for Kiev which has now been transformed into a citadel instead of a functioning city.
As I said in the OP...even if Ukraine drives Russia back out, which will cost them as much as it did Russia because now you're on the offense and more highly exposed, Where is the victory? What victory? It's more like an all around loss with the Civilians taking the biggest hit to their lives, livelihoods and security. A far more palatable victory would have been simply to sign a few stupid little documents and avoid the Military intrusion. Who the hell advised this guy to purposely Trash his entire country for some stupid western Illusion of democracy? Hell we don't even have on here in the US....

JO