Would you support subsidizing...

[Missourian]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

 

[g5000]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

You need to be more specific.

 

[Missourian]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

You need to be more specific.

You've got to keep in mind I'm not as macro-economically savvy as you are...but what I mean is returning industry from China...and other countries.

Subsidizing it thru tax incentives and even grants...and then instituting some forms if protectionism to allow it to grow.

 

[Vastator]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

You need to be more specific.

You've got to keep in mind I'm not as macro-economically savvy as you are...but what I mean is returning industry from China...and other countries.

Subsidizing it thru tax incentives and even grants...and then instituting some forms if protectionism to allow it to grow.

Subscribed...

 

[g5000]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

You need to be more specific.

You've got to keep in mind I'm not as macro-economically savvy as you are...but what I mean is returning industry from China...and other countries.

Subsidizing it thru tax incentives and even grants...and then instituting some forms if protectionism to allow it to grow.

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

 

[Brain357]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

You need to be more specific.

You've got to keep in mind I'm not as macro-economically savvy as you are...but what I mean is returning industry from China...and other countries.

Subsidizing it thru tax incentives and even grants...and then instituting some forms if protectionism to allow it to grow.

Economically that is very unlikely to work. The USSR was a very closed economy, it failed miserably...

 

[MisterBeale]

You know, I have thought about that as well.

I am definitely pretty dogmatic when it comes to the free market, but when I was young, and at University studying policy, I keenly understood why the government subsidized the Agricultural industry. It is a national security issue.

. . . now it has become increasing clear, some items, also are national security issues as we have developed "just in time" manufacturing and supply lines.

Of course, this would not apply to consumer luxuries like electronics, g5000 is being absurd.

OTH, having basic medical supplies, like contagion masks, bandages, hypodermic needles, some basic clothing. TOILET PAPER, etc., this now seems only prudent.

. . . and of course, munitions, these types of items probably SHOULD be produced at home, or at least have some basic capacity at the very least reserved.

 

[Missourian]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

 

[Siete]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

industry has outsourced - it wont be back

end of story

 

[Missourian]

You know, I have thought about that as well.

I am definitely pretty dogmatic when it comes to the free market, but when I was young, and at University studying policy, I keenly understood why the government subsidized the Agricultural industry. It is a national security issue.

. . . now it has become increasing clear, some items, also are national security issues as we have developed "just in time" manufacturing and supply lines.

Of course, this would not apply to consumer luxuries like electronics, g5000 is being absurd.

OTH, having basic medical supplies, like contagion masks, bandages, hypodermic needles, some basic clothing. TOILET PAPER, etc., this now seems only prudent.

. . . and of course, munitions, these types of items probably SHOULD be produced at home, or at least have some basic capacity at the very least reserved.

g5000 ^^^^This.

(Thanks MisterBeale)

 

[g5000]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I am being very serious.

Labor is by far the largest operating expense of any business. That is precisely why manufacturers move overseas. It has virtually nothing to do with taxes.

Cheap labor is precisely what gives them their edge.

So no, I am not kidding.

 

[Brain357]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

The price would go up rather drastically.

 

[Missourian]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

industry has outsourced - it wont be back

end of story

That is an opinion...don't mistake it for a fact.

 

[MisterBeale]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I think for consumer luxuries, it would hamper advancements and competition.

If it isn't a national security issue? It probably would only hurt advancements and competition.

Huawei Has Taken Over Apple's Market Share In China; It Will Get Worse

 

[MisterBeale]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

industry has outsourced - it wont be back

end of story

If certain industries are given large benefits to come back? They will.

 

[Brain357]

You know, I have thought about that as well.

I am definitely pretty dogmatic when it comes to the free market, but when I was young, and at University studying policy, I keenly understood why the government subsidized the Agricultural industry. It is a national security issue.

. . . now it has become increasing clear, some items, also are national security issues as we have developed "just in time" manufacturing and supply lines.

Of course, this would not apply to consumer luxuries like electronics, g5000 is being absurd.

OTH, having basic medical supplies, like contagion masks, bandages, hypodermic needles, some basic clothing. TOILET PAPER, etc., this now seems only prudent.

. . . and of course, munitions, these types of items probably SHOULD be produced at home, or at least have some basic capacity at the very least reserved.

We are far more likely to have shortages if you try to only produce those items here, see the USSR.

 

[MisterBeale]

So you want our government to allow Apple to treat American factory workers like slaves, and have them live in company barracks with suicide nets, and pay them peanuts like they can do in China?

Seems like a strawman...not a serious question.

So here is a non-serious answer...

I'd prefer that Apple made phones here and paid a UAW wage...and protected that wage through tarriffs if necessary.

I am being very serious.

Labor is by far the largest operating expense of any business. That is precisely why manufacturers move overseas. It has virtually nothing to do with taxes.

Cheap labor is precisely what gives them their edge.

So no, I am not kidding.

So much shit is begin automated, this is nonsense.

 

[Brain357]

...U.S. re-industrialization?

Why or why not?

industry has outsourced - it wont be back

end of story

If certain industries are given large benefits to come back? They will.

The result won’t be what you think.

 

[g5000]

Allow me to familiarize all of you with what is known as the Smiley Curve of Production:

This represents where value is added, i.e., where the profits are made, in the production cycle.

As you can see, the big money is in design phase and the distribution phase.

The design phase is the engineering phase. The invention phase. This is where innovation happens, and innovation happens as the result of higher education.

That is where we are seriously flagging, folks. You know who is kicking ass in this part of the Smiley Curve?

India.

The other end of the Smiley Curve is distribution. The Apple Store. The sales part of the picture.

It doesn't take a lot of brains to sell shit, and this is where most of our weight is thrown around these days. Service industry bullshit. That's where we are making our money.

But it isn't the idiot low skilled workforce making that money. It's the owners of the company. You want to make money for yourself, you need to be on the other end of the curve, and that requires an education.

There are factories cranking out laptops by the millions, and at the end of the assembly line they glue on corporate logos. And the logo makes all the difference in how much each laptop will sell for. Pretty crazy.

All because of the Smiley Curve.

But you know what? If someone else starts inventing the new shit, do you think they are going to sell it through US outlets, or will they sell through their own outlets and bring all that cash home?

Yeah. So think about that.

Now look at the middle of the curve. There's no money in manufacturing. That's why a lot of shit is made in China by slaves these days. The margins are just too narrow.

But America is still manufacturing more stuff than it ever has. It really is. People who tell you America doesn't make things any more are FULL OF SHIT.

It just takes a lot less PEOPLE to make all that STUFF. The wonders of automation.


Look at the curve. Think about it. A lot.

I do. All the time.

We are going to get whacked because we are slacking off on the Design side of the curve. The innovation and invention side. That's the genesis of everything which is ever created, folks.

So you better start believing we need a LOT more higher education in America.

A lot more.

 

[MisterBeale]

You know, I have thought about that as well.

I am definitely pretty dogmatic when it comes to the free market, but when I was young, and at University studying policy, I keenly understood why the government subsidized the Agricultural industry. It is a national security issue.

. . . now it has become increasing clear, some items, also are national security issues as we have developed "just in time" manufacturing and supply lines.

Of course, this would not apply to consumer luxuries like electronics, g5000 is being absurd.

OTH, having basic medical supplies, like contagion masks, bandages, hypodermic needles, some basic clothing. TOILET PAPER, etc., this now seems only prudent.

. . . and of course, munitions, these types of items probably SHOULD be produced at home, or at least have some basic capacity at the very least reserved.

We are far more likely to have shortages if you try to only produce those items here, see the USSR.

I never implied that we should exclusively produce items here. I was only saying, we should encourage some manufacturing capacity here, so if we have supply lines cut, we have SOME manufacturing capacity.