Zone1 Without God Who Or What Decides What Moral Law Is?

[playtime]

No, I disagree. Everyone is born with a conscience, but unfortunately some people screw it up to the point where it's almost completely nonexistent.

there are children who aren't 'molded' yet that have committed evils acts not due to be merely 'of a juvenile mind'.

I don't know if you're a Christian,

i am.

but that's biblical... 1 Timothy 4:2 talks about how a conscience can be "seared" as with a hot iron.

if there is a god, then there is evil as well. sociopathic people are devoid of a conscience & human emotion. they didn't lose it, they never had it.

 

[Anathema]

Secular humans have a higher moral standard than the religious

I don’t believe there’s any real relationship between religion and morals any more than there’s a relationship between religion and God.

 

[alang1216]

I think that it's a very good question actually. She brings up a very good point.

With or without God the answer is the same. We as a society determine what is right and what is wrong. Religion merely reflects and codifies it. Look at the moral code of the ancient Hebrews, Medieval Christians, and Western Culture today. We arguably live under the same God but can hardly be said to share the same morality.

 

[buttercup]

there are children who aren't 'molded' yet that have committed evils acts not due to be merely 'of a juvenile mind'.

Yes, that's true, but not for the reason you've assumed. It's because we all have two things within us.... we have our conscience, which comes from God...and is (for lack of better words) our moral compass. But we also have our human nature, which is prone to selfishness, impatience, at times mean-spiritedness, etc, etc.

Those two things are often at odds with each other, and of course when our human nature 'wins', bad things will happen.

I highly recommend the book 'Mere Christianity' by C.S Lewis. He goes into all of this, in depth, and explains it all SO well. It is an excellent read, especially the first few chapters.

i am.

if there is a god, then there is evil as well. sociopathic people are devoid of a conscience & human emotion. they didn't lose it, they never had it.

Yes, of course there is evil. But again, I don't agree that there are people born without a conscience or emotion. People get messed up along the way. Also, not to get all "woo woo" here, in the eyes of some people, but I also believe there is a spiritual factor involved. And that can come very early in one's life... or later in life. The "evil" comes from the spiritual realm that is in opposition to God.

 

[Moonglow]

One man's moral relativity-inclined God is another man's immoral relativity-inclined God.

 

[irosie91]

One man's moral relativity-inclined God is another man's immoral relativity-inclined God.

some famous brtish guy once said "civilization rests on the anal sphincter" <<<
that's the sum total of British "wit" and the reason that you are excluded from
pleasant society

 

[irosie91]

there are children who aren't 'molded' yet that have committed evils acts not due to be merely 'of a juvenile mind'.




i am.



if there is a god, then there is evil as well. sociopathic people are devoid of a conscience & human emotion. they didn't lose it, they never had it.

studies have actually proved our Buttercup to be correct-----children in their natural, unsullied state are actually FAIR MINDED

 

[norwegen]

Ethics is a far superior way of determining right and wrong. It's a rational replacement for the arbitrary and often nonsensical rules set up by religious types to preserve their racket.

The ethics of the Nazis resulted in the extermination of millions of Jews.

Social values determine morality for a people. In the US, social values first and fundamentally were determined by English common law, Enlightenment rationalism, classical antiquity, and Christianity. The morally degenerate attack Christianity first, then common law, and then, well, the rest is history.

 

[irosie91]

The ethics of the Nazis resulted in the extermination of millions of Jews.

Social values determine morality for a people. In the US, social values first and fundamentally were determined by English common law, Enlightenment rationalism, classical antiquity, and Christianity. The morally degenerate attack Christianity first, then common law, and then, well, the rest is history.

ok---sorta true---somehow english common law was a tiny bit short of the job

 

[occupied]

The ethics of the Nazis resulted in the extermination of millions of Jews.

Social values determine morality for a people. In the US, social values first and fundamentally were determined by English common law, Enlightenment rationalism, classical antiquity, and Christianity. The morally degenerate attack Christianity first, then common law, and then, well, the rest is history.

The Nazis were fascists. By definition their rules did not apply to the elites.

 

[norwegen]

The Nazis were fascists. By definition their rules did not apply to the elites.

And what were their ethics again?

 

[occupied]

And what were their ethics again?

Might makes right. That's about it. They did make a lot of morality laws that they had no intention of living by themselves. In that way they were like the priesthood of every religion and cult you ever heard of.

 

[jackflash]

I think that it's a very good question actually. She brings up a very good point.

Without a God Almighty there would be no creation for humanity, & that would mean in that case humanity itself would never have been created. There is the evolution theory but that theory is so riddled with holes that it cannot hold up to scrutiny when put under the magnifying glass of the theoretical physicists. There are self admitted atheists among the theoretical physicists for sure like professor Stephen Hawking & professor Albert Einstein, but their atheism appears to be generated more from personal hardships & outright tragedy that they blame mankind's Maker for. The field of creation & morality is a much deeper subject than most common folks would ever care to admit to.

List of theoretical physicists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RevenantBlues]

That's nice to know. P'raps you can explain why our species is so self-destructive?

Weakness. Gullibility.

The ambitious, the greedy, the evil among us come up with ideas, such as religion, which they then present to the people who more often than not subscribe to and worship.

People at large claim to be morally upright—willing to follow their moral codes to the gates of hell (Christians, I'm looking at you.) These same people claim to be strong in the will of God, the teachings of Jesus or Buddha or whomever. These are the same people who will ride your bumper, road rage for miles, froth at the mouth and want to kill you, simply because you were doing the speed limit.

These are the same people (again, Christians) who sit back and readily, thoughtlessly allow American doctors to murder tens of millions of babies in the womb. Their solution? We'll pray for all those dismembered children and, and we'll pray for the abortionists to have a sudden change of heart. It's the same with any current evil running rampant under the American sun. People who claim to be strong of faith and committed to good moral behavior do nothing, absolutely nothing to stop the bad, evil men out there.

This is the key problem with our species: the masses put their own personal responsibility in the hands of their so-called leaders who then set out to rape and murder and plunder the world. What do these so-called "good" men and women do in response? They all proclaim loudly, "It's out of our hands, there was nothing more we could do." That is why our world has gone to hell. Not because bad men have driven us to hell but because self-proclaimed good men are always unwilling to defy their kings and emperors and nobles and presidents and put an end to evil even if doing so means the end of their own lives.

The answer to your question: why is our species so self-destructive? Because 99.999% of our species are cowards. Cowards who would rather pursue their own petty personal interests than stand up to the tyrants who drive them all to famine, poverty, war and mass death.

Or you know . . . you could keep chalking it all up to "It's God's will" and continue to sit back and watch it all burn.

 

[BreezeWood]

I think that it's a very good question actually. She brings up a very good point.

obviously the desert religions of servitude for those that believe in those fallacies, they will never find the path to the heavens - the goal granted a&e and their journey for that very purpose.

 

[jackflash]

Aren’t people capable of determining right or wrong on their own?

There were/are millions of folks globally that think one or the other of the links below are morally right. For me I say only the first links images are morally good. What about the other folks that think the second link is also morally good???

Toddler rescued from rubble as quake death toll passes 20,000

Feb 9 news: Hopes of finding survivors are quickly dwindling, but rescue teams are still pulling people out alive.

www.aljazeera.com

World War II Holocaust Images | Eisenhower Presidential Library

www.eisenhowerlibrary.gov

Quality/beneficial morality generally is best 'installed' in the mind/cpu of a living creation by the Programmer for proper performance. Of course viruses of assorted types can affect an individuals mind/cpu leading to less than optimum performance & in severe cases even a disastrous situation for all involved.

 

[The Duke]

I think that it's a very good question actually. She brings up a very good point.

There is no moral standard without God. He made the world and sets it.

That's a smart girl, and I think exactly the same as she does.

 

[rightwinger]

There is no moral standard without God. He made the world and sets it.

Allah?

 

[The Duke]

Allah?

Allah did not create the world. He is not omniscient, either. Admittedly by Muslims.

Muslims think what they do out at sea and/or at night, Allah cannot see their depraved transgressions.

So they do a lot of bad shit at night and out to sea and think Allah is none the wiser.

Well, Allah is a fake God, and they will face consequences for their actions.

A) On this earth by the karma that God ingrained into this world when he created it. It runs like clockwork everywhere, all the time.

and

B) In the afterlife.

 

[jackflash]

NO. Human nature prohibits mankind from being able to codify Right and Wrong on our own.

Correct! The human condition(human nature) @ current is obviously not performing as originally intended.