Zone1 Without God Who Or What Decides What Moral Law Is?

[surada]

Wait a sec, have YOU read the Code of Hammurabi? It's HUGE!! It a lot more like the Napoleonic Code in its complexity. Add to that a bureaucratic inflexibility that only a government could provide.

Don't get me wrong, my bet is that it was a big step forward, but let's understand that it's not something to read while ur say, on a bus.

I have read some of it.

 

[irosie91]

I have read some of it.

I have read lots of it and considered it in comparison to hindu social structure, jewish law,
greek and roman social structure and canon law-----a bit, since I am not all that
"expert" in ANY of the pertinent subjects. I did come to the conclusion that jewish
law is a "reaction against" to some extent---the Code of Hammurabi. Specifically--the
'CODE' is very caste oriented. Reminded me of the episode in TALE OF TWO CITIES--in
which a nobleman gets away with running over and killing a peasant child with his horse
and carriage. The much cited "an eye for an eye....." has never meant ---if someone
knocks a persons eye out---the penalty is KNOCK HIS OUT. in Jewish law----OR in
Babylonian law------but nevah mind----getting rid of that misconception is HOPELESS

 

[Arlette]

Only God and sweet baby Jesus keep my blood lust at bay. If I didn't believe bullshit I would be a serial murderer. No doubt about it.

 

[BreezeWood]

Only God and sweet baby Jesus keep my blood lust at bay. If I didn't believe bullshit I would be a serial murderer. No doubt about it.

funny, a distinction between them and the documents written in their name - the opposite response to validate what they do onto others. the serial haters - given license for their crimes.

 

[surada]

A key (and tragic) deficit in human reasoning is belief that mankind is not capable of governing himself free from self-forged iron shackles of either mythological deities who know all, see all and who spectacularly punish mistakes of the species or god-like men such as kings appointed to rule by command of said mythological deities.

The way one determines right from wrong (in the absence of any god's wrath) is to identify and differentiate between those actions which harm the continuation of our species and those which benefit it and encourage its proliferation.

For instance, abortion—even without the dusty presence of ancient deities—can be easily identified as morally wrong; the act of abortion—mass abortion in particular—severely reduces the number of humans available to procreate and continue our species. Thus, and without any inclination toward deity worship, the act of abortion is provably, morally wrong. It is the same with issues such as mass homosexuality, mass transgenderism and euthanasia as a societal policy: all three aforementioned philosophical perversions severely detract from the capability of our species to reproduce, perpetuate and survive—all without need of deity worship or mention.

Harming children in any way, be that harm physical or psychological, is super antithetical to the continuation of the human species. War, also, is against the logical means and natural progression of our race other than in those few true instances of war for national defense, a situation which is historically so rare as to (almost) have never arisen.

Murder is also antithetical to prosperity in general, unless one sets out to be a madman, and unless one is killing in self-defense. Either way, murder removes warm human bodies capable of reproduction and continuation of our species.

Living by a good moral code requires neither genius nor belief in a god; only love for oneself and our species are necessary.

In ancient times they simply exposed infants they couldn't feed.

 

[Meriweather]

Only God and sweet baby Jesus keep my blood lust at bay. If I didn't believe bullshit I would be a serial murderer. No doubt about it.

Grin. Seriously, though, keep in mind God is not your servant there to keep your blood lust at bay--or to grant our every wish fro that matter. Thousands of years ago our ancestors were asked, "Who will you serve?" It is still a good question in our own time: Who will you serve? If not God/Goodness, then who/what?

 

[Arlette]

Grin. Seriously, though, keep in mind God is not your servant there to keep your blood lust at bay--or to grant our every wish fro that matter. Thousands of years ago our ancestors were asked, "Who will you serve?" It is still a good question in our own time: Who will you serve? If not God/Goodness, then who/what?

That has nothing to do with the topic. You don't need a God to make you moral. You need to have the capacity for empathy, the ability to put yourself into someone else's shoes. Nobody needs to read in some book to not treat others in ways you don't want to be treated. That comes free of charge with being human. You don't need religion, and all the shit that comes with it in order to be a moral person. Religion just fucks things up.

 

[Meriweather]

That has nothing to do with the topic. You don't need a God to make you moral. You need to have the capacity for empathy, the ability to put yourself into someone else's shoes. Nobody needs to read in some book to not treat others in ways you don't want to be treated. That comes free of charge with being human. You don't need religion, and all the shit that comes with it in order to be a moral person. Religion just fucks things up.

What is religion? How does it mess things up?

 

[Arlette]

What is religion? How does it mess things up?

It divides people

 

[BreezeWood]

If not God/Goodness, then who/what?

too bad they do not separate the two ... the heavens - and the particular descriptive books.

- written about them, claiming stewardship and enabling texts. most often for nefarious purposes.

 

[irosie91]

In ancient times they simply exposed infants they couldn't feed.

or they did not want for any reason

 

[Meriweather]

It divides people

So does government. Business. Sports. Schools. What doesn't divide? Religion, despite its imperfections (imperfections that are present in every human organization) strives to instill, remind, and encourage people to live up to--and recognize--morals instilled in each of us.

You said you don't need religion to be moral. So? I don't need sports to have sportsmanlike conduct. I still like that sports are an activity that instills sportsmanlike conduct, even though the competition both with in the team--and other teams they play--can divide.

My point is just because I am not--and never have been--heavily involved in sports, I find no need to mock sports groups for promoting sportsmanship. And no need for me to broadcast my sportsmanship is just as high as those who play sports.

 

[Arlette]

So does government. Business. Sports. Schools. What doesn't divide? Religion, despite its imperfections (imperfections that are present in every human organization) strives to instill, remind, and encourage people to live up to--and recognize--morals instilled in each of us.

You said you don't need religion to be moral. So? I don't need sports to have sportsmanlike conduct. I still like that sports are an activity that instills sportsmanlike conduct, even though the competition both with in the team--and other teams they play--can divide.

My point is just because I am not--and never have been--heavily involved in sports, I find no need to mock sports groups for promoting sportsmanship. And no need for me to broadcast my sportsmanship is just as high as those who play sports.

I find nothing admirable about retreating into a fantasyland. Religion has been a net negative for humanity, especially women.
And for the believer who takes the Bible literally - I respect them as people but intellectually - no. I just don't

 

[Meriweather]

I find nothing admirable about retreating into a fantasyland. Religion has been a net negative for humanity, especially women.
And for the believer who takes the Bible literally - I respect them as people but intellectually - no. I just don't

One-third of the people of faith take the Bible literally. Two-thirds do not.

I take it that you are one who takes the Bible literally since that is such an easy reason to dismiss it?

 

[Arlette]

One-third of the people of faith take the Bible literally. Two-thirds do not.

I take it that you are one who takes the Bible literally since that is such an easy reason to dismiss it?

I'm sure you are right about the numbers.

It's not just the Bible I dismiss. I dismiss religion of any kind as just a "cleaner, accepted" kind of escapism. Not much different than drugs or alcohol. It softens the hard truth of life, especially for the poor. The only thing I find admirable about it is that those ancient goat herders came up with the perfect business model. Invent a condition, namely sin, for which only you have the remedy and take it to market.

 

[Meriweather]

It's not just the Bible I dismiss. I dismiss religion of any kind as just a "cleaner, accepted" kind of escapism. Not much different than drugs or alcohol. It softens the hard truth of life, especially for the poor. The only thing I find admirable about it is that those ancient goat herders came up with the perfect business model. Invent a condition, namely sin, for which only you have the remedy and take it to market.

How is incorporating religious practices into every day life, "escapism"? When I want to escape, I usually find a good novel or go putter around it the garden. Sometimes, trying out a new recipe does the trick. Did religion once help you escape? If so, from what, into what?

 

[Mashmont]

Religion and ‘god’ are creations of man; consequently. moral law/morality is a creation of man.

Cool. So when did man create the sun and the earth?

 

[bodecea]

I think that it's a very good question actually. She brings up a very good point.

The Golden Rule...all cultures have it.