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Will there be a rebellion within the Catholic Church?

Blackrook

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Will there be a rebellion within the Catholic Church?

This Pope, so beloved to liberals and secularists, is causing a firestorm of criticism among the more traditional faithful, including one Cardinal who was demoted for speaking his mind.

But conservative Catholics have no where to go. One of their foundations is that the Pope is infallible, and should not be openly criticized by faithful Catholics.

So conservative Catholics are breaking their own rules. Where can this lead, but total chaos?

The Church can easily survive while liberal Catholics bash the Church and all its teachings, as it has done for decades, but can it withstand it when conservatives are the ones tearing down the roof?

If the Catholic Church cannot depend on its conservative ranks for stability and faithfulness, who then is left?

The situation is far more serious than outsiders may suspect.

My father, a devout Catholic, said today that this Pope is the worst in his lifetime.

That's saying a lot, because that makes him worse than John XXIII, who made so many changes with Vatican II that he is the boogeyman of Popes for conservative Catholics.
 

saveliberty

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Looks more like Screwball I to me.
 

Toddsterpatriot

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Will there be a rebellion within the Catholic Church?

This Pope, so beloved to liberals and secularists, is causing a firestorm of criticism among the more traditional faithful, including one Cardinal who was demoted for speaking his mind.

But conservative Catholics have no where to go. One of their foundations is that the Pope is infallible, and should not be openly criticized by faithful Catholics.

So conservative Catholics are breaking their own rules. Where can this lead, but total chaos?

The Church can easily survive while liberal Catholics bash the Church and all its teachings, as it has done for decades, but can it withstand it when conservatives are the ones tearing down the roof?

If the Catholic Church cannot depend on its conservative ranks for stability and faithfulness, who then is left?

The situation is far more serious than outsiders may suspect.

My father, a devout Catholic, said today that this Pope is the worst in his lifetime.

That's saying a lot, because that makes him worse than John XXIII, who made so many changes with Vatican II that he is the boogeyman of Popes for conservative Catholics.

One of their foundations is that the Pope is infallible

Other people wonder how infallibility could exist if some popes disagreed with others. This, too, shows an inaccurate understanding of infallibility, which applies only to solemn, official teachings on faith and morals, not to disciplinary decisions or even to unofficial comments on faith and morals. A pope’s private theological opinions are not infallible, only what he solemnly defines is considered to be infallible teaching.

Papal Infallibility Catholic Answers
 

JoeB131

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I'm just not seeing where Pope "Lighten Up," Francis is really making that big of a difference.

The reality is, this Pope realizes the vast majority of Catholics in the world today live in impoverished third world countries. Therefore, in the conservative vs. liberal ECONOMIC argument, he really has no choice to take the side of the liberal. There simply aren't enough filthy rich Catholics to make that argument. The uber rich are either protestants or secularists. No point in sucking up to them. Catholics are slightly smarter than Evangelicals, who suck up that Koch Brother Shit on the hope someone might ban abortion one day.

The problem he runs into is that he can't really take the LIberal side on social issues- The Catholic Church still has to be against abortion, gays, actually treating chicks as equals.
 

Luddly Neddite

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Religion is mostly a social club and a matter of convenience. People put on and wear what fits. If catholics didn't care about all those thousands of raped children, I doubt this pope will have any real effect.
 

Votto

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Will there be a rebellion within the Catholic Church?

This Pope, so beloved to liberals and secularists, is causing a firestorm of criticism among the more traditional faithful, including one Cardinal who was demoted for speaking his mind.

But conservative Catholics have no where to go. One of their foundations is that the Pope is infallible, and should not be openly criticized by faithful Catholics.

So conservative Catholics are breaking their own rules. Where can this lead, but total chaos?

The Church can easily survive while liberal Catholics bash the Church and all its teachings, as it has done for decades, but can it withstand it when conservatives are the ones tearing down the roof?

If the Catholic Church cannot depend on its conservative ranks for stability and faithfulness, who then is left?

The situation is far more serious than outsiders may suspect.

My father, a devout Catholic, said today that this Pope is the worst in his lifetime.

That's saying a lot, because that makes him worse than John XXIII, who made so many changes with Vatican II that he is the boogeyman of Popes for conservative Catholics.


The Catholic church is more of a political institution than a spiritual one. Since the days of Constantine this has been the case. In fact, Constantine was not even a Christian. He used the Christian faith as a means of creating his own little world empire, even though Jesus claimed that his kingdom was not of this world.

What followed next was horrific. The Inquisitions, the Crusades, the persecution of the Jews etc. Before this Christianity was growing by leaps and bounds even though they were routinely oppressed and thrown to the lions.

What you see with the Catholic church is the realization that leftists rule the world now. They rule the US, the rule Europe, they rule pretty much everything but Islamic countries. However, Islam and Marxism are both collectivist ideologies, and as such, tend to ally themselves together. In fact, I'm sure leftists would just love to start beheading Tea Party members and restricting their free speech.
 

Avatar4321

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There has been rebellion for centuries. I doubt that will change
 

saveliberty

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As long as they aren't converting cats, I'm cool with it.
 

Votto

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As long as they aren't converting cats, I'm cool with it.

Yea, well I'm not.

The left is all gung ho about the separation of church and state until the church leans left. Abortion should be legalized cause the church can't control our laws but all of a sudden we should be giving all our money to the poor through the state or church because Jesus would want us to do this?

They are truly a sick bunch.
 

Meriweather

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Will there be a rebellion within the Catholic Church?

This Pope, so beloved to liberals and secularists, is causing a firestorm of criticism among the more traditional faithful, including one Cardinal who was demoted for speaking his mind.

But conservative Catholics have no where to go. One of their foundations is that the Pope is infallible, and should not be openly criticized by faithful Catholics.

So conservative Catholics are breaking their own rules. Where can this lead, but total chaos?

The Church can easily survive while liberal Catholics bash the Church and all its teachings, as it has done for decades, but can it withstand it when conservatives are the ones tearing down the roof?

If the Catholic Church cannot depend on its conservative ranks for stability and faithfulness, who then is left?

The situation is far more serious than outsiders may suspect.

My father, a devout Catholic, said today that this Pope is the worst in his lifetime.

That's saying a lot, because that makes him worse than John XXIII, who made so many changes with Vatican II that he is the boogeyman of Popes for conservative Catholics.

It has been said before, but it bears repeating: Papal Infallibility ONLY applies to official, solemn teachings. For example, Pope Francis cannot go back and undo one of the three infallible teachings announced by another Pope.

Second, when one depends on Catholic News Sources for the context of what the Pope actually said, we see time and again, Pope Francis isn't really saying anything new or different--he is just willing to keep talking about it. I think it is the non-Catholic news sources that are upsetting more conservative Catholics. I read non-Catholic sources, think, "Hmmm, that doesn't sound like Church teaching," so I go search out a Catholic source and discover everything is the same as it has always been.

The closest we have come to anything being discussed with perhaps a possibility of change are divorced and then remarried Catholics being permitted to receive communion with their families--possibly after a long period of penance. It doesn't appear that even that is likely to occur in the foreseeable future.
 

TheOldSchool

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Will there be a rebellion within the Catholic Church?

This Pope, so beloved to liberals and secularists, is causing a firestorm of criticism among the more traditional faithful, including one Cardinal who was demoted for speaking his mind.

But conservative Catholics have no where to go. One of their foundations is that the Pope is infallible, and should not be openly criticized by faithful Catholics.

So conservative Catholics are breaking their own rules. Where can this lead, but total chaos?

The Church can easily survive while liberal Catholics bash the Church and all its teachings, as it has done for decades, but can it withstand it when conservatives are the ones tearing down the roof?

If the Catholic Church cannot depend on its conservative ranks for stability and faithfulness, who then is left?

The situation is far more serious than outsiders may suspect.

My father, a devout Catholic, said today that this Pope is the worst in his lifetime.

That's saying a lot, because that makes him worse than John XXIII, who made so many changes with Vatican II that he is the boogeyman of Popes for conservative Catholics.
You're a joke. Trying to turn religion into politics? If this is a test of your faith, then you are failing.
 

quorthon

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Will there be a rebellion within the Catholic Church?

This Pope, so beloved to liberals and secularists, is causing a firestorm of criticism among the more traditional faithful, including one Cardinal who was demoted for speaking his mind.

But conservative Catholics have no where to go. One of their foundations is that the Pope is infallible, and should not be openly criticized by faithful Catholics.

So conservative Catholics are breaking their own rules. Where can this lead, but total chaos?

The Church can easily survive while liberal Catholics bash the Church and all its teachings, as it has done for decades, but can it withstand it when conservatives are the ones tearing down the roof?

If the Catholic Church cannot depend on its conservative ranks for stability and faithfulness, who then is left?

The situation is far more serious than outsiders may suspect.

My father, a devout Catholic, said today that this Pope is the worst in his lifetime.

That's saying a lot, because that makes him worse than John XXIII, who made so many changes with Vatican II that he is the boogeyman of Popes for conservative Catholics.
You're a joke. Trying to turn religion into politics? If this is a test of your faith, then you are failing.
The Catholic Church always was a mix of religion, theatrics and politics. In my opinion, it's better for Christians to keep their own faith and not to react to provocations around Pope and his Vatican office.
 

RandomVariable

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Will there be a rebellion within the Catholic Church?

This Pope, so beloved to liberals and secularists, is causing a firestorm of criticism among the more traditional faithful, including one Cardinal who was demoted for speaking his mind.

But conservative Catholics have no where to go. One of their foundations is that the Pope is infallible, and should not be openly criticized by faithful Catholics.

So conservative Catholics are breaking their own rules. Where can this lead, but total chaos?

The Church can easily survive while liberal Catholics bash the Church and all its teachings, as it has done for decades, but can it withstand it when conservatives are the ones tearing down the roof?

If the Catholic Church cannot depend on its conservative ranks for stability and faithfulness, who then is left?

The situation is far more serious than outsiders may suspect.

My father, a devout Catholic, said today that this Pope is the worst in his lifetime.

That's saying a lot, because that makes him worse than John XXIII, who made so many changes with Vatican II that he is the boogeyman of Popes for conservative Catholics.
I hope you never catch me relating a dream ever again on this board but this since you brought this up I will relay it. This was almost a year ago so I was just learning about religion and why I should have this incredibly vivid dream I do not know. Anyway the Pope was assassinated by two of the people directly under him, kind of the King Caesar thing. The assassins were people believing the Pope had strayed too far from tradition. The two assassins then escapes Rome but were later found in Slovenia. I thought Slovenia an odd thing but I looked and it is 97% Catholic, which probably should not come as a surprise. I have also heard the Pope say he expects not to be around in a couple of years. I am not making any predictions but history would say he has gone to far out on the branch.
 

C_Clayton_Jones

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Will there be a rebellion within the Catholic Church?

This Pope, so beloved to liberals and secularists, is causing a firestorm of criticism among the more traditional faithful, including one Cardinal who was demoted for speaking his mind.

But conservative Catholics have no where to go. One of their foundations is that the Pope is infallible, and should not be openly criticized by faithful Catholics.

So conservative Catholics are breaking their own rules. Where can this lead, but total chaos?

The Church can easily survive while liberal Catholics bash the Church and all its teachings, as it has done for decades, but can it withstand it when conservatives are the ones tearing down the roof?

If the Catholic Church cannot depend on its conservative ranks for stability and faithfulness, who then is left?

The situation is far more serious than outsiders may suspect.

My father, a devout Catholic, said today that this Pope is the worst in his lifetime.

That's saying a lot, because that makes him worse than John XXIII, who made so many changes with Vatican II that he is the boogeyman of Popes for conservative Catholics.
Ignorant, reactionary nonsense.

If anything the Church now has a pope who finally reflects the opinions of a majority of Catholics, as well as the true meaning of Christianity.

The Pope's position on homosexuality, for example, where no human is in a position to judge, is a fundamental tenet of Christianity far too few Christians actually practice.

As for where 'conservative' Catholics might go, there are Protestant denominations who maintain a policy of arrogance and hate they might find more to their liking.
 

Disir

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I just read an interview with the Pope. He's down with capitalism.

Catholicism is still Catholicism.

Much ado about nuttin'.
 

ninja007

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This article should be read in conjunction with my main article about the catholic eucharist and their mass in general.



At the very heart of Roman Catholicism is the mass. For catholics worldwide, this is 'sacred ground' and woe be to anybody who dares come along and query its legitimacy on Biblical grounds (2 Tim. 2:15).



For my part, I only consider it to be a symbolic event, much like that of baptism. However for me to say this openly, like I am now, I risk being consigned to eternal Hell by the so-called ecumenical and seeker-friendly church, for which my father and I were members for decades.



The following quote, taken from the council of Trent, speaks for itself:



"If any one denieth, that, in the sacrament of the most holy Eucharist, are contained truly, really, and substantially, the body and blood together with the soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, and consequently the whole Christ; but saith that He is only therein as in a sign, or in figure, or virtue; let him be anathema."



As a Bible-believing Christian, now set free from organized religion and saved by my faith in the precious blood of Christ, Rome can retain her medieval and bigoted curse (there are 124 others too), because as far as I am concerned, I believe the folly of the mass to be a religious hallucination, but if you want to believe it, that's your business; for I am all for the freedom of conscience, unlike like the church of Rome's 600 bloody years of wicked and cruel inquisition (please see my articlearticle on this monumental crime against humanity). But what gives this Baal inspired priesthood the right to dish out curses to millions of children of God that don't hold to this nonsensical doctrine!



(During the 1960s second Vatican council each of the rulings from the council of Trent were upheld).



The following 10 points are as unbiased as possible, when it comes to detailing the major and sensible facts of what John 6 is actually speaking about, not what the catholic church privately thinks it says.



10 quick points about John 6



  • Verse 29: Believe He is the Christ in order to be saved (Rom. 10:9).


  • Verse 41: Unbelieving Jews murmur because He claims to be deity, i.e., came down from Heaven, and later on, some of them try to kill Him (John 10:32-33).


  • Verse 47: Re-affirms faith alone in Him for salvation (Acts 16:30-31).


  • Verse 51: The metaphor of Him being the bread of life is not only a reference to His deity, but it is also synonymous with His flesh and work on the Cross; for it is faith in each of these things that saves a sinners, i.e., His flesh/body hung on the cross (1 Cor. 15:13-14).


  • Verse 60: The unbelieving Jews again complain about His requirements of them and others.


  • Verse 61: Jesus finally confronts their moaning, for up till now He has been testing them to see who would stay and who would leave. This is later demonstrated, when after a 3-year ministry, in which tens of thousands have thronged Him and followed His every move, when push came to shove, they all fell away, with only 120 found to have lasted the course in the Upper Room. This is a picture of the very few who will be saved on Judgment Day (Matt. 7:13-14).


  • Verse 63: Christ makes it crystal clear that His words are only spiritual, i.e., figurative - the Holy Spirit does the work of regeneration (1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 4:4-6), never human endeavours (Rom. 4:4; Eph. 2:8-9).


  • Verse 66: Unbelieving Jews depart from Him, because they weren't prepared to be identified with Him in such a personal way.


  • Verse 68: Peter correctly understands that Jesus' words are eternal life, and that only faith in Him warrants eternal life, not keeping the eucharist (Acts 4:12).


Conclusion



The fact of the matter is, whether a person believes in the hoax of transubstantiation (the bread and wine changing into the literal body and blood of Christ), is immaterial: because the Bible repeatedly teaches that faith in Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection is what saves a sinner from his sins, (1 Cor. 15:17), not church attendance, good works, or other man-made activities and traditions (Gal. 3:2-3).




I would also like to add, that there are many other occasions in the Bible, when Jesus spoke to those around Him in metaphorical language, and nearly every time they failed to understand that He was speaking to them spiritually, not literally. And never once did He correct their ignorance; He simply left them in spiritual darkness (Jer. 5:21-23).



"Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up [spiritually speaking about His body being the Jewish temple.] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? [literal understanding.] But he spake of the temple of his body" (John 2:18-22).



On this occasion, the ignorant Jewish people totally failed to understand what He was speaking to them about, and He didn't correct their ignorance. He simply left them in darkness and under judgment.



"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life [spiritually language.] The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw" [literal understating] (John 4:14,15).



The lady at the well, from the above account, also mistook His figurative language, but on this occasion Jesus continued to allow her to question Him, even though she didn’t understand what He was speaking to her about, until He, like He did with Nicodemous (see John 3:3-7) cut through their blindness, and explained the need for the new birth, resulting in both parties going on to be born again.



"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63).



And this final piece of John 6 makes is about as clear as can be that one's flesh (meaning what a person does, like eating or drinking) doesn't benefit you, but that listening and applying His words (meaning to believe on Him) is what saves a sinner.



By now, one might hope that the average person could differentiate between taking a passage literally and spiritualising it. One can only wonder why Rome for so long, has failed to do this?


Ex-Catholics For Christ - Spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ

This is an ex-catholic of 50 years speaking btw.
 

Meriweather

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here is a great website started by 2 ex-catholics. One was a RC for 50 years. Please read the topics on the left side.

No, it is not a "great" website. Once again all you have been able to do is dig up a non-Catholic website. Kevin, if want any credibility at all, use Catholic sites.

Apparently this man decided Revelation is set in the future and yet to happen--and it changed his whole theology. Fine. But repeating what Protestants believe about Catholics still doesn't make it Catholic teachings.

I've seen this happen with other former Catholics. They begin to believe what Protestants say the Catholic Church teaches--and apparently don't even know the Catholic faith well enough to provide rebuttal. The man may have had a devout prayer life, may continue to have one. But he does not have a handle on Catholic teachings. There was a void--which he now has filled with what Protestants believe the Catholic Church teaches.

Again, the websites you provide are useless. If you want to know what the Catholic Church teaches, then use Catholic sites. Spreading misinformation and falsehood is beneath you. I think you know that.
 

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