Will the Catholic church deny Biden communion?

[Donald H]

Biden is the president of a secular nation and a devout Catholic. The Catholic church may deny him communion, but ordinary Catholics won't.

Ordinary Catholics also take the position that he should be denied the Sacraments. Naturally, he is still welcome at Mass and other Church Rites. However, his position pushing/funding abortion crosses the line. The average Catholic will recall Jesus position that no one should serve two masters because he will come to love one and hate the other. President Biden is going to have to make a choice of which Master he will serve. And maybe some ordinary Catholics will have to make this choice as well.

Of course ordinary catholics take the position that he should be denied the Sacraments!
But is the catholic church of the same opinion?

I would suggest that it's definitely not.
Is the catholic church silent on the question out of fear?
Or is the catholic church silent because it has no feelings on the question?
Or is there some other reason why the flock so quickly and easily condemns and the church doesn't?

I think the catholic church is attempting to distance itself as far as possible away from the abortion question. It knows very well that it's about to face having to condemn motherhood if it doesn't.

In essence, the catholic church is depending on the flock to carry the cross on abortion.

 

[Donald H]

The reason Pope Paul VI would not approve artificial birth control is because he could see down the line to the next step, which is what happens when birth control fails?

That's a peach on logical thinking of a pope. Is it his or did you invent it?

Wouldn't it seem that no artificial birth control would result in more disease (AIDS) and unwanted pregnancies and death than 'some' artificial birth control?

Not in the mind of that pope, as you are suggesting.

How far will you push it Meri? Have you noticed yet that my mission has become one of finding out?

Satan/Biden/Pelosi/Democrats are about to get a foot in the 'abortion' door based on an appeal to the 'motherhood' issue.

Once the foot is in the door Satan has won!
HE won on the evolution question the same way.

 

[Meriweather]

I would suggest that it's definitely not.
Is the catholic church silent on the question out of fear?
Or is the catholic church silent because it has no feelings on the question?
Or is there some other reason why the flock so quickly and easily condemns and the church doesn't?

Down through the ages, we see some where many of our much admired Saints mightily disagreed with each other over some issues. We take it for granted we are not always going to be in agreement with each other. The Church has been adamant that abortion is a sin. On the other hand it is also adamant about forgiveness of sins. There is a Church ministry to help those who have had abortions that have brought them great sorrow. The Church does condemn abortion.

As I said earlier, Catholic politicians can take the position of free will for others when it comes to abortion. However, a Catholic may not promote abortion or fund abortion--that crosses the line. President Biden seems to think he can cross even this line with impunity. If Speaker Pelosi (and any other lawmaker) vote in favor of a bill to fund abortions, then they, too, have crossed the line.

As a Catholic, I believe the Church should have held the line on excommunicating any Catholic politician known for favoring choice/abortion, but I can (reluctantly) accept the free will argument. Pope Paul VI, I feel, would have held the line at this point because he could see further down the line...first force them to accept abortion as a matter of choice, and then have an uproar that taxpayers also need to pay for the abortions, otherwise it is as good as denying free choice to the poor.

Sometimes we need to take that slippery slope argument more seriously.

 

[Meriweather]

That's a peach on logical thinking of a pope. Is it his or did you invent it?

Definitely his. It never crossed my mind.

 

[Meriweather]

Once the foot is in the door Satan has won!
HE won on the evolution question the same way.

These are two very different issues. Evolution has nothing to do with how we live this life. Abortion has everything to do with how we live this life.

 

[Meriweather]

How far will you push it Meri? Have you noticed yet that my mission has become one of finding out?

Satan/Biden/Pelosi/Democrats are about to get a foot in the 'abortion' door based on an appeal to the 'motherhood' issue.

All I can say is that I hope and pray the Church stands strong. I fear it won't. So we shall see.

 

[Donald H]

That's a peach on logical thinking of a pope. Is it his or did you invent it?

Definitely his. It never crossed my mind.

I want to trust you on that but I won't until you provide something to back it up. You will if you think it's worth it.
I'm going to take a chance and say that it's out of your head or it's a wrong interpretation of what that pope said.

 

[Meriweather]

I want to trust you on that but I won't until you provide something to back it up. You will if you think it's worth it.
I'm going to take a chance and say that it's out of your head or it's a wrong interpretation of what that pope said.

Grin. You could do your own research, and I would usually insist. However, I have time on my hands, so let me see if his reasoning is in some article on line. Be back in a few.

 

[Donald H]

How far will you push it Meri? Have you noticed yet that my mission has become one of finding out?

Satan/Biden/Pelosi/Democrats are about to get a foot in the 'abortion' door based on an appeal to the 'motherhood' issue.

All I can say is that I hope and pray the Church stands strong. I fear it won't. So we shall see.

You know very well it won't stand strong on abortion.

I fear it won't.

You've just told me that you've lost faith in your church. I commend you for being a deeper thinker than almost the entire flock!

 

[Donald H]

I want to trust you on that but I won't until you provide something to back it up. You will if you think it's worth it.
I'm going to take a chance and say that it's out of your head or it's a wrong interpretation of what that pope said.

Grin. You could do your own research, and I would usually insist. However, I have time on my hands, so let me see if his reasoning is in some article on line. Be back in a few.

Thanks for the effort. I'll have to hear the evidence later so there's no urgency.

You won't attempt to move the goalposts will you?

 

[justinacolmena]

they have no conscience.

They never did.

Yep. And they should fully back contraception practices. No questions asked.

It's called abstinence. Don't ask for sex. Don't offer sex. It isn't any harder than that not to have children.

They did consort with the Nazi's.

They're lip-christians with a service industry labor mentality.

 

[Donald H]

They're lip-christians with a service industry labor mentality.

I have no sympathy for any christians fighting against another brand of the religion. I assume that's what you'r doing until you proclaim otherwise.

 

[Meriweather]

You've just told me that you've lost faith in your church. I commend you for being a deeper thinker than almost the entire flock!

I haven't lost faith, merely wondering what the US Catholic Congress of Bishops will see it. We already see that some bishops in the Eastern United States have no problem with the President receiving communion. That the entire US Congress of Bishops is taking a look at this is positive as far as it goes. I simply know the weaknesses of bureaucracies, and bureaucracies gravely disappoint more often than not. However, at the parish level, great things happen.

 

[Meriweather]

Thanks for the effort. I'll have to hear the evidence later so there's no urgency.

You won't attempt to move the goalposts will you?

No moving the goal posts. Naturally, I cannot find the magazine article I read a number of years ago, but was confident there would be some mention of Pope Paul's reasoning on the internet. This article was written in 2018, fifty years later.

This is from a 2018 npr article entitled, 50 Years Ago, The Pope Called Birth Control 'Intrinsically Wrong'

A recent conference convened in part by the Catholic Women's Forum featured speakers offering "Second Thoughts" on the Humane Vitae encyclical and the sexual revolution. Some speakers argued that the "contraceptive culture" that Paul VI foresaw turned out to be associated with things he predicted, including an increase in promiscuity, pornography, sex trafficking, and even abortions.

 

[justinacolmena]

They're lip-christians with a service industry labor mentality.

I have no sympathy for any christians fighting against another brand of the religion. I assume that's what you'r doing until you proclaim otherwise.

You can't go on strike with the labor union, strike your boss at work, strike your wife and kids at home, get drunk on Saturday night, have a haircut on the bar stool and show up in church on Sunday with all your sins forgiven for the sake of your good works and tithes.

 

[Desperado]

In a perfect world they would not only deny Biden communion but would excommunicate him.
However this is not a prefect world and the catholic church is turning a blind eye to people like Biden and Pelosi. Both of whom claim to be devote Catholics but their actions deny that fact.

 

[Donald H]

Thanks for the effort. I'll have to hear the evidence later so there's no urgency.

You won't attempt to move the goalposts will you?

No moving the goal posts. Naturally, I cannot find the magazine article I read a number of years ago, but was confident there would be some mention of Pope Paul's reasoning on the internet. This article was written in 2018, fifty years later.

This is from a 2018 npr article entitled, 50 Years Ago, The Pope Called Birth Control 'Intrinsically Wrong'

A recent conference convened in part by the Catholic Women's Forum featured speakers offering "Second Thoughts" on the Humane Vitae encyclical and the sexual revolution. Some speakers argued that the "contraceptive culture" that Paul VI foresaw turned out to be associated with things he predicted, including an increase in promiscuity, pornography, sex trafficking, and even abortions.

So I have to continue to believe that you made it up.
Not even a catholic pop would say that birth control measures would lead to more unintended pregnancies.

But I guess you could claim that your misinterpreted something that pope said?

Some mothers will need an abortion to save their lives. That's a part of motherhood and for the catholic church to forbid abortion is a direct attack against 'motherhood. (and women)

The catholic church would very much prefer that it shouldn't stand but again the flock pushes the church to continue to take that stand.

This is why I am saying that the catholic church is going to need to speak with the Republican party in order to modify the god's demand.

The catholic church knows what's good for itself. It's no different from when it had to suppport Nazism. No fkng wonder you're so much in disagreement with the catholic church Meri.

 

[JustAGuy1]

He need to be thrown out of that church. I'm not Catholic and I have more in common with them than that "devout catholic" does. He and Nancy Pelosi need to be removed. The Church is no place for those who have nothing but contempt for its teachings.

A majority of US Catholics support

Birth Control
Legal Abortion
Gay Marriage
Divorce
Married Priests
Women Priests

You going to throw them all out?

Point out women priests and maeeried priests. Surely you know of some.

 

[Meriweather]

So I have to continue to believe that you made it up.

Then we have nothing more to say to each other.

As you wished I found an article that notes that Pope Paul VI against artificial birth control because it would lead to abortion. The npr article confirms Pope Paul VI's reasoning for not approving artificial contraceptives.

Paul VI foresaw turned out to be associated with things he predicted, including an increase in promiscuity, pornography, sex trafficking, and even abortions.

Despite reading the words in the article I provided, you continue to believe I made this up. I don't make things up. We're done.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The Church should never compromise on abortion. The Church should continue to point to the ideal. Someone has to.

Who cares? Let them say whatever silly nonsense they want. It should have exactly zero bearing on our laws. Freedom of and from religion.