CDZ Will any USMB abortion proponents admit that an abortion kills a child?

[AVG-JOE]

1. Obviously it does.

You say it's obvious buy more than 90% of abortion proponents I encounter (even on USMB) will argue incessantly that it does not.

What do you say to them?

Anything?

My humble opinion is that they are entitled to their humble opinion with regards to the moral, religious and political ramifications of the technology, but the simple biological fact is that an abortion, by definition, terminates a human life.

​

 

[Chuz Life]

Yes, abortion kills a child.

And yes, the mother's rights out way the child's up to a point.

I suppose you mean "outweigh."

It took me a minute but I figured it out.

Aaronlelland left before I could get his answer about fetal homicide laws.

So, the same goes out to you or to anyone else who accepts the fact that an abortion kills a child but still thinks abortion should be legal....

What are your thoughts about "Fetal Homicide Laws?"

I'm not to familiar with them exactly but I read what you posted. They seem reasonable with the restrictions that are there.

When a person is convicted under a fetal homicide law, they can be imprisoned for murder.

A person who even accidentally kills a child in the womb during a DUI or Bank Robbery can be charged with murder for killing essentially the same child that a mother heading to Planned Parenthood to intentionally kill it with an abortion...

Yet, you don't think her killing of the child should be a crime at all.

Do you at least agree that there is a double standard there?

 

[Chuz Life]

A child's rights does not extend to right's over another's body.

Did someone claim they do?

 

[Chuz Life]

1. Obviously it does.

You say it's obvious buy more than 90% of abortion proponents I encounter (even on USMB) will argue incessantly that it does not.

What do you say to them?

Anything?

My humble opinion is that they are entitled to their humble opinion with regards to the moral, religious and political ramifications of the technology, but the simple biological fact is that an abortion, by definition, terminates a human life.

Do you try to enlighten them when you can?

I would like to see the sources you would use to do that.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, abortion kills a child.

And yes, the mother's rights out way the child's up to a point.

I suppose you mean "outweigh."

It took me a minute but I figured it out.

Aaronlelland left before I could get his answer about fetal homicide laws.

So, the same goes out to you or to anyone else who accepts the fact that an abortion kills a child but still thinks abortion should be legal....

What are your thoughts about "Fetal Homicide Laws?"

I'm not to familiar with them exactly but I read what you posted. They seem reasonable with the restrictions that are there.

When a person is convicted under a fetal homicide law, they can be imprisoned for murder.

Homicide and murder are two different crimes.

A person who even accidentally kills a child in the womb during a DUI or Bank Robbery can be charged with murder for killing essentially the same child that a mother heading to Planned Parenthood to intentionally kill it with an abortion...

Homicide and murder are two different crimes.

Yet, you don't think her killing of the child should be a crime at all.

I don't think abortion should be a crime.

Do you at least agree that there is a double standard there?

No. It goes back to rights.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The fact that it kills a child is not the tragedy of the medical technology we call "abortion"....

The tragedy is how America managed to industrialize it through politics and an unwillingness to invest in basic health-care and sex education.

Is it fair to say that you do not agree that a child's right to their life and their right to the equal protections of our laws does not begin when their life does?

With regard to the right to equal protection under the law, both my opinion and my political vote give the mother 51% and the fetus 49%, with the mother taking 100% of the responsibility for, as well as the 100% of the rights to her own body.

The abortion technology genie has left the bottle and there is no shoving it back in... the only way to stop abortions from happening is to stop unwanted pregnancies from happening and the only way that I can see to make that happen is to provide women with basic health care and accurate sex education, meaning sex education which defers to biology and science when biology and science conflict with religious opinion.

 

[Chuz Life]

Yes, abortion kills a child.

And yes, the mother's rights out way the child's up to a point.

I suppose you mean "outweigh."

It took me a minute but I figured it out.

Aaronlelland left before I could get his answer about fetal homicide laws.

So, the same goes out to you or to anyone else who accepts the fact that an abortion kills a child but still thinks abortion should be legal....

What are your thoughts about "Fetal Homicide Laws?"

I'm not to familiar with them exactly but I read what you posted. They seem reasonable with the restrictions that are there.

When a person is convicted under a fetal homicide law, they can be imprisoned for murder.

Homicide and murder are two different crimes.

A person who even accidentally kills a child in the womb during a DUI or Bank Robbery can be charged with murder for killing essentially the same child that a mother heading to Planned Parenthood to intentionally kill it with an abortion...

Homicide and murder are two different crimes.

Yet, you don't think her killing of the child should be a crime at all.

I don't think abortion should be a crime.

Do you at least agree that there is a double standard there?

No. It goes back to rights.

The fetal homicide laws include murder in the list of charges that a person can face - for killing a "child in the womb" during a criminal act.

You say "it goes back to rights."

Please explain / expound on that.

 

[AVG-JOE]

1. Obviously it does.

You say it's obvious buy more than 90% of abortion proponents I encounter (even on USMB) will argue incessantly that it does not.

What do you say to them?

Anything?

My humble opinion is that they are entitled to their humble opinion with regards to the moral, religious and political ramifications of the technology, but the simple biological fact is that an abortion, by definition, terminates a human life.

Do you try to enlighten them when you can?

I would like to see the sources you would use to do that.

My sources are four: Me, myself, I and the interesting things that I find along the way which I choose to discuss.

I'm certainly not shy about expressing my opinion, but for enlightenment to occur, it must be desired.

I take no responsibility for the continued ignorance of people I have conversations with, even when I know damn well that I'm right.

 

[Coyote]

Yes, abortion kills a child.

And yes, the mother's rights out way the child's up to a point.

I suppose you mean "outweigh."

It took me a minute but I figured it out.

Aaronlelland left before I could get his answer about fetal homicide laws.

So, the same goes out to you or to anyone else who accepts the fact that an abortion kills a child but still thinks abortion should be legal....

What are your thoughts about "Fetal Homicide Laws?"

I'm not to familiar with them exactly but I read what you posted. They seem reasonable with the restrictions that are there.

When a person is convicted under a fetal homicide law, they can be imprisoned for murder.

Homicide and murder are two different crimes.

A person who even accidentally kills a child in the womb during a DUI or Bank Robbery can be charged with murder for killing essentially the same child that a mother heading to Planned Parenthood to intentionally kill it with an abortion...

Homicide and murder are two different crimes.

Yet, you don't think her killing of the child should be a crime at all.

I don't think abortion should be a crime.

Do you at least agree that there is a double standard there?

No. It goes back to rights.

The fetal homicide laws include murder in the list of charges that a person can face - for killing a "child in the womb" during a criminal act.

Ok, I had to go back to the source and read the links.

You say "it goes back to rights."

Please explain / expound on that.

The child has no rights over the woman's body.

 

[Chuz Life]

With regard to the right to equal protection under the law, both my opinion and my political vote give the mother 51% and the fetus 49%, with the mother taking 100% of the responsibility for, as well as the 100% of the rights to her own body.

Wait. . .

Please provide a link to the source that you use to support your claim that 49% is "equal" to 51%.

The abortion technology genie has left the bottle and there is no shoving it back in... the only way to stop abortions from happening is to stop unwanted pregnancies from happening and the only way that I can see to make that happen is to provide women with basic health care and accurate sex education, meaning sex education which defers to biology and science when biology and science conflict with religious opinion.

I see.

So, if we provide women with free basic health care, accurate sex education (even the kind that conflicts with religion). . . THEN would you support a ban on abortion?

 

[Chuz Life]

1. Obviously it does.

You say it's obvious buy more than 90% of abortion proponents I encounter (even on USMB) will argue incessantly that it does not.

What do you say to them?

Anything?

My humble opinion is that they are entitled to their humble opinion with regards to the moral, religious and political ramifications of the technology, but the simple biological fact is that an abortion, by definition, terminates a human life.

Do you try to enlighten them when you can?

I would like to see the sources you would use to do that.

My sources are four: Me, myself, I and the interesting things that I find along the way which I choose to discuss.

I'm certainly not shy about expressing my opinion, but for enlightenment to occur, it must be desired.

I take no responsibility for the continued ignorance of people I have conversations with, even when I know damn well that I'm right.

I wasn't asking for you to take responsibility for anyone's ignorance.

You say that you agree that an abortion kills a child. You even said it was obvious that it does. Yet, the vast majority of those who share YOUR view on keeping abortions legal DO NOT agree with you that an abortion kills a child.

In fact, many of them claim that they would change their views on abortion if they became convinced that an abortion kills a child.

I simply wanted to know if you ever care enough to educate them, to share your knowledge, etc.

You could have simply said "no." You don't.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The fetal homicide laws include murder in the list of charges that a person can face - for killing a "child in the womb" during a criminal act.

You say "it goes back to rights."

Please explain / expound on that.

My humble opinion: Fetal homicide laws should not apply to a mother who aborts, but they should apply to third parties who kill a fetus while they are violating the rights of the mother.

I understand that you feel differently, and I understand where you are leading with your questioning, but neither of us is right or wrong, it's just politics in a democracy where society must make life and death decisions because there appears to be an absence of a higher power taking control.

 

[AVG-JOE]

With regard to the right to equal protection under the law, both my opinion and my political vote give the mother 51% and the fetus 49%, with the mother taking 100% of the responsibility for, as well as the 100% of the rights to her own body.

Wait. . .

Please provide a link to the source that you use to support your claim that 49% is "equal" to 51%.

The abortion technology genie has left the bottle and there is no shoving it back in... the only way to stop abortions from happening is to stop unwanted pregnancies from happening and the only way that I can see to make that happen is to provide women with basic health care and accurate sex education, meaning sex education which defers to biology and science when biology and science conflict with religious opinion.

I see.

So, if we provide women with free basic health care, accurate sex education (even the kind that conflicts with religion). . . THEN would you support a ban on abortion?

My opinion needs no source but me, Bro'.

 

[AVG-JOE]

And no... I can not support a ban on abortion. I support education and health care policies that would hopefully reduce the demand for abortion.

The abortion technology genie has left the bottle and there is no shoving it back in.

 

[Coyote]

The best way to end abortion is to make it unnecessary.

 

[Chuz Life]

The child has no rights over the woman's body.

Believe it or not, I completely agree that a child has no rights over a woman's body. In my opinion, they only have the same (equal) rights one to the other.

That said, there are some things that I think any court would have to also take into consideration.

Specifically, whether or not a woman can invite a child to the use of her body and then Kill it- because she later changes her mind or regrets the risks that she took that created the child and dependent relationship in which it lives.

 

[AVG-JOE]

1. Obviously it does.

You say it's obvious buy more than 90% of abortion proponents I encounter (even on USMB) will argue incessantly that it does not.

What do you say to them?

Anything?

My humble opinion is that they are entitled to their humble opinion with regards to the moral, religious and political ramifications of the technology, but the simple biological fact is that an abortion, by definition, terminates a human life.

Do you try to enlighten them when you can?

I would like to see the sources you would use to do that.

My sources are four: Me, myself, I and the interesting things that I find along the way which I choose to discuss.

I'm certainly not shy about expressing my opinion, but for enlightenment to occur, it must be desired.

I take no responsibility for the continued ignorance of people I have conversations with, even when I know damn well that I'm right.

I wasn't asking for you to take responsibility for anyone's ignorance.

You say that you agree that an abortion kills a child. You even said it was obvious that it does. Yet, the vast majority of those who share YOUR view on keeping abortions legal DO NOT agree with you that an abortion kills a child.

In fact, many of them claim that they would change their views on abortion if they became convinced that an abortion kills a child.

I simply wanted to know if you ever care enough to educate them, to share your knowledge, etc.

You could have simply said "no." You don't.

But that's not true... as I stated, I share my opinions as often as the next guy - but it remains up to the audience to decide if I have knowledge or bullshit, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Chuz Life]

The best way to end abortion is to make it unnecessary.

Is it your opinion then, that all abortions are necessary?

 

[Coyote]

The child has no rights over the woman's body.

Believe it or not, I completely agree that a child has no rights over a woman's body. In my opinion, they only have the same (equal) rights one to the other.

That said, there are some things that I think any court would have to also take into consideration.

Specifically, whether or not a woman can invite a child to the use of her body and then Kill it- because she later changes her mind or regrets the risks that she took that created the child and dependent relationship in which it lives.

She is the only one who has rights over her body. If you want to put it in those terms - the child becomes an unwanted tenant. She has the right to evict it.

 

[Coyote]

The best way to end abortion is to make it unnecessary.

Is it your opinion then, that all abortions are necessary?

It's not up to me to make that decision for another person. That's why I prefer doing everything we can to reduce the need for it.