CDZ Will any USMB abortion proponents admit that an abortion kills a child?

Chuz Life

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Just what the thread title says.

I have participated on a lot of forums and debate sites for nearly 30 years now and though it is very rare, I have in fact encountered abortion proponents who are not afraid to admit that an abortion kills a child. They agree that an abortion denies prenatal children their rights while in the womb. . . etc. Their argument is simply that the rights of the mother trumps the rights of the child.

Strange as it may seem, I actually have a bit more respect for those opponents - because we (at least) have some common ground on the biological facts, when and how life begins, etc.

How about it?

Anybody?
 

DarkFury

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Just what the thread title says.

I have participated on a lot of forums and debate sites for nearly 30 years now and though it is very rare, I have in fact encountered abortion proponents who are not afraid to admit that an abortion kills a child. They agree that an abortion denies prenatal children their rights while in the womb. . . etc. Their argument is simply that the rights of the mother trumps the rights of the child.

Strange as it may seem, I actually have a bit more respect for those opponents - because we (at least) have some common ground on the biological facts, when and how life begins, etc.

How about it?

Anybody?
You might want to add the rights of the mother Trump that of the father which should be illegal as it's open bias and gives one gender the right to kill.
 

depotoo

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A friend of ours had their son come early at 6 months, weighing 2 lbs, 6 oz. He is a spry 16 yr old healthy teenager today.
 

Luddly Neddite

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A friend of ours had their son come early at 6 months, weighing 2 lbs, 6 oz. He is a spry 16 yr old healthy teenager today.

Not all preemies are. Many live in terribly pain, only a sort time. So called "right to live" nutters know this but have no problem with torturing babies.
 
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Chuz Life

Chuz Life

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Why do I (why does anyone) even bother with a thread topic, anymore?
 

Eloy

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Whether or not a girl decides to have an abortion can present a difficult dilemma.
I believe it is a decision for the pregnant girl alone. Some will want to consult family or a doctor but, in the end, I do not believe it is anyone's business but the pregnant girl's.

Now, I would not think this way were I to believe life begins at conception. For me, a person begins at birth.
 
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Chuz Life

Chuz Life

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. . . I believe it is a decision for the pregnant girl alone. Some will want to consult family or a doctor but, in the end, I do not believe it is anyone's business but the pregnant girl's.

Now, I would not think this way were I to believe life begins at conception. For me, a person begins at birth.
There ARE people who completely accept that life begins at conception but feel abortion should be kept legal anyway.

Those are the people this thread is about and those are the people I am interested in having a discussion with.
 

IsaacNewton

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Just what the thread title says.

I have participated on a lot of forums and debate sites for nearly 30 years now and though it is very rare, I have in fact encountered abortion proponents who are not afraid to admit that an abortion kills a child. They agree that an abortion denies prenatal children their rights while in the womb. . . etc. Their argument is simply that the rights of the mother trumps the rights of the child.

Strange as it may seem, I actually have a bit more respect for those opponents - because we (at least) have some common ground on the biological facts, when and how life begins, etc.

How about it?

Anybody?
If you'll admit that you do nothing to help the 24,000 children that die every single day around the world that could be saved with help.

How about it?
 

william the wie

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. . . I believe it is a decision for the pregnant girl alone. Some will want to consult family or a doctor but, in the end, I do not believe it is anyone's business but the pregnant girl's.

Now, I would not think this way were I to believe life begins at conception. For me, a person begins at birth.
There ARE people who completely accept that life begins at conception but feel abortion should be kept legal anyway.

Those are the people this thread is about and those are the people I am interested in having a discussion with.
I am not a proponent of abortion but I don't argue against the pulling the plug argument. Catching the Zita bug during pregnancy is not the mother's fault.
 
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Chuz Life

Chuz Life

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Just what the thread title says.

I have participated on a lot of forums and debate sites for nearly 30 years now and though it is very rare, I have in fact encountered abortion proponents who are not afraid to admit that an abortion kills a child. They agree that an abortion denies prenatal children their rights while in the womb. . . etc. Their argument is simply that the rights of the mother trumps the rights of the child.

Strange as it may seem, I actually have a bit more respect for those opponents - because we (at least) have some common ground on the biological facts, when and how life begins, etc.

How about it?

Anybody?
If you'll admit that you do nothing to help the 24,000 children that die every single day around the world that could be saved with help.

How about it?
I pay taxes and I support not only the Government programs and laws that fight poverty, human trafficking and child exploitation around the world... I donate to private run charities as I can, as well.

So, I honestly can not "admit" to doing "nothing" when I actually do "something." Do I do enough? Who's to say? Could I do more? Absolutely! We all could.

Funny (weird actually) that you think YOUR ability to come clean about your beliefs are somehow tied to mine.
 

aaronleland

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I believe that life begins at conception, but wouldn't call abortion murder.
 
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Chuz Life

Chuz Life

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. . . I believe it is a decision for the pregnant girl alone. Some will want to consult family or a doctor but, in the end, I do not believe it is anyone's business but the pregnant girl's.

Now, I would not think this way were I to believe life begins at conception. For me, a person begins at birth.
There ARE people who completely accept that life begins at conception but feel abortion should be kept legal anyway.

Those are the people this thread is about and those are the people I am interested in having a discussion with.
I am not a proponent of abortion but I don't argue against the pulling the plug argument. Catching the Zita bug during pregnancy is not the mother's fault.
Okay, but I am seeking those who are abortion proponents who agree that an abortion kills a child.
 
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Chuz Life

Chuz Life

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I believe that life begins at conception, but wouldn't call abortion murder.
Great!

Finally!

So, to be clear... you agree that an abortion kills a child but you think it should be kept legal anyway.

Is that right?
 

aaronleland

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I believe that life begins at conception, but wouldn't call abortion murder.
Great!

Finally!

So, to be clear... you agree that an abortion kills a child but you think it should be kept legal anyway.

Is that right?
A fetus is a child, but I don't think it's sentient in the same way a fetus say during the third trimester is. We kill much more developed animals without batting an eyelash.
 
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Chuz Life

Chuz Life

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I believe that life begins at conception, but wouldn't call abortion murder.
Great!

Finally!

So, to be clear... you agree that an abortion kills a child but you think it should be kept legal anyway.

Is that right?
A fetus is a child, but I don't think it's sentient in the same way a fetus say during the third trimester is. We kill much more developed animals without batting an eyelash.
Understood.

And, for what it's worth, I completely agree that sentience (sapience too) gradually develops in a child over time.

My question for you is.... why doesn't it drive you nuts to see other abortion proponents DENY that it's a child. Some even deny that it is a human being. They call it a parasite, etc.

Do you ever try to correct them? Or is it that because they also support abortion, like you do..... their ignorance about the biological facts is just more tolerable?
 

DarkFury

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Just what the thread title says.

I have participated on a lot of forums and debate sites for nearly 30 years now and though it is very rare, I have in fact encountered abortion proponents who are not afraid to admit that an abortion kills a child. They agree that an abortion denies prenatal children their rights while in the womb. . . etc. Their argument is simply that the rights of the mother trumps the rights of the child.

Strange as it may seem, I actually have a bit more respect for those opponents - because we (at least) have some common ground on the biological facts, when and how life begins, etc.

How about it?

Anybody?
If you'll admit that you do nothing to help the 24,000 children that die every single day around the world that could be saved with help.

How about it?
What part of the OP talks about children around the world? He asked you nicely not to derail. How about you try that?
 

aaronleland

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I believe that life begins at conception, but wouldn't call abortion murder.
Great!

Finally!

So, to be clear... you agree that an abortion kills a child but you think it should be kept legal anyway.

Is that right?
A fetus is a child, but I don't think it's sentient in the same way a fetus say during the third trimester is. We kill much more developed animals without batting an eyelash.
Understood.

And, for what it's worth, I completely agree that sentience (sapience too) gradually develops in a child over time.

My question for you is.... why doesn't it drive you nuts to see other abortion proponents DENY that it's a child. Some even deny that it is a human being. They call it a parasite, etc.

Do you ever try to correct them? Or is it that because they also support abortion, like you do..... their ignorance about the biological facts is just more tolerable?
I'm sure I hold some bias with abortion proponents, but I never really debate the abortion issue, so I've had no reason to rebut them. I acknowledge the merits of both arguments, and dismiss the extremists on both sides.
 
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Chuz Life

Chuz Life

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I believe that life begins at conception, but wouldn't call abortion murder.
Great!

Finally!

So, to be clear... you agree that an abortion kills a child but you think it should be kept legal anyway.

Is that right?
A fetus is a child, but I don't think it's sentient in the same way a fetus say during the third trimester is. We kill much more developed animals without batting an eyelash.
Understood.

And, for what it's worth, I completely agree that sentience (sapience too) gradually develops in a child over time.

My question for you is.... why doesn't it drive you nuts to see other abortion proponents DENY that it's a child. Some even deny that it is a human being. They call it a parasite, etc.

Do you ever try to correct them? Or is it that because they also support abortion, like you do..... their ignorance about the biological facts is just more tolerable?
I'm sure I hold some bias with abortion proponents, but I never really debate the abortion issue, so I've had no reason to rebut them. I acknowledge the merits of both arguments, and dismiss the extremists on both sides.
I have to say, the thing that drives me most nuts about abortion proponents is their denial of, ignorance of and repulsion to the biological facts that I and apparently you too have accepted.

I also used to be an abortion proponent (kind of) myself. My view was along the lines of "well, I'm not a woman so who am I to day one way or the other."

But, even then. . . I only had to look at the evidence that indicates a child's life begins at conception ONCE. . . in order for me to drop the denials about it altogether.

Fighting that denial, that ignorance is what drives me the most. Not the injustice, the life is sacred crap or any of that.

Anyway, that's why it is actually a relief to find an abortion proponent who is not afraid to admit that an abortion does in fact kill a child.
 

aaronleland

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I believe that life begins at conception, but wouldn't call abortion murder.
Great!

Finally!

So, to be clear... you agree that an abortion kills a child but you think it should be kept legal anyway.

Is that right?
A fetus is a child, but I don't think it's sentient in the same way a fetus say during the third trimester is. We kill much more developed animals without batting an eyelash.
Understood.

And, for what it's worth, I completely agree that sentience (sapience too) gradually develops in a child over time.

My question for you is.... why doesn't it drive you nuts to see other abortion proponents DENY that it's a child. Some even deny that it is a human being. They call it a parasite, etc.

Do you ever try to correct them? Or is it that because they also support abortion, like you do..... their ignorance about the biological facts is just more tolerable?
I'm sure I hold some bias with abortion proponents, but I never really debate the abortion issue, so I've had no reason to rebut them. I acknowledge the merits of both arguments, and dismiss the extremists on both sides.
I have to say, the thing that drives me most nuts about abortion proponents is their denial of, ignorance of and repulsion to the biological facts that I and apparently you too have accepted.

I also used to be an abortion proponent (kind of) myself. My view was along the lines of "well, I'm not a woman so who am I to day one way or the other."

But, even then. . . I only had to look at the evidence that indicates a child's life begins at conception ONCE. . . in order for me to drop the denials about it altogether.

Fighting that denial, that ignorance is what drives me the most. Not the injustice, the life is sacred crap or any of that.

Anyway, that's why it is actually a relief to find an abortion proponent who is not afraid to admit that an abortion does in fact kill a child.
I have a friend who was a "product" of rape. His mother refused to have an abortion. He grew to be one of the most genuine people I've met in my life. He taught me taekwondo. He's currently a police officer who once saved my sister-in-law's life. I acknowledge that wiping out a fetus wipes out certain possibilities. I will still defend a mother's right to choose.
 
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Chuz Life

Chuz Life

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Great!

Finally!

So, to be clear... you agree that an abortion kills a child but you think it should be kept legal anyway.

Is that right?
A fetus is a child, but I don't think it's sentient in the same way a fetus say during the third trimester is. We kill much more developed animals without batting an eyelash.
Understood.

And, for what it's worth, I completely agree that sentience (sapience too) gradually develops in a child over time.

My question for you is.... why doesn't it drive you nuts to see other abortion proponents DENY that it's a child. Some even deny that it is a human being. They call it a parasite, etc.

Do you ever try to correct them? Or is it that because they also support abortion, like you do..... their ignorance about the biological facts is just more tolerable?
I'm sure I hold some bias with abortion proponents, but I never really debate the abortion issue, so I've had no reason to rebut them. I acknowledge the merits of both arguments, and dismiss the extremists on both sides.
I have to say, the thing that drives me most nuts about abortion proponents is their denial of, ignorance of and repulsion to the biological facts that I and apparently you too have accepted.

I also used to be an abortion proponent (kind of) myself. My view was along the lines of "well, I'm not a woman so who am I to day one way or the other."

But, even then. . . I only had to look at the evidence that indicates a child's life begins at conception ONCE. . . in order for me to drop the denials about it altogether.

Fighting that denial, that ignorance is what drives me the most. Not the injustice, the life is sacred crap or any of that.

Anyway, that's why it is actually a relief to find an abortion proponent who is not afraid to admit that an abortion does in fact kill a child.
I have a friend who was a "product" of rape. His mother refused to have an abortion. He grew to be one of the most genuine people I've met in my life. He taught me taekwondo. He's currently a police officer who once saved my sister-in-law's life. I acknowledge that wiping out a fetus wipes out certain possibilities. I will still defend a mother's right to choose.
Understood.

But with what you just said, I have to wonder what your views on fetal homicide laws are.

Do you support them or oppose them?
 

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