Why would Putin not want a cease fire while a long term peace agreement is finalized.

[Flopper]

That's stupid word games.

Zelenski wants to push Russia out of all ukrainian territory and if he gets that, that will be, would be a huge victory for him and for ukraine.

Denying that is ******* retarded.


That would be great. And Just. And wonderful.


The only question is, how likely is that to happen and what will the cost be, in ukrainian lives?


That is what the pro-war left doesn't want to discuss.

You will now pivot away from any discussion of hte cost, by one of several standard leftard asshole moves.


1. Appeal to Emotion, pity for ukrain.

2. Red baiting.

3. Retarded rhetorical ploys.

The chance of Trump giving up all the territory that hundreds of thousands of Russians have fought and died for is just about zero.

 

[ElmerMudd]

The chance of Trump giving up all the territory that hundreds of thousands of Russians have fought and died for is just about zero.

Trump is more concerned about Russian soldiers than Ukrainian soldiers.

Trump's existence has provided Putin opportunity to grab more land thn he had when Trump came to office plus Trump is treating Ukraine like they started the war.
Trump is more popular in Russia than in the USA.

 

[Correll]

It is highly unlikely that Zelensky and the Ukrainian military would be able to push the Russian military out of Ukraine. They can win battles here and there, but Moscow has too much in the way of arms and money to buy more arms. I see two possible ways for Ukraine to end up Russia-free:

1) Putin dies and his successor turns out be chosen from a cabal of Russians that have been wanting to get out of Ukraine.

2) Other countries send forces to Ukraine and they push the Ruskies out.

The first is possible, but it would be blind luck. If the second were going to happen, why hasn't it happened already?

This war may outlast the gulf wars, so long as the arms industry keeps making money from it.

Agreed. It is also possible that the Ukrainians could collapse. FAILURE and LOSING are still on the table as possiblities.

The way the pro-war people want to frame the discussion, the... simplistic to the point of being a ******* comic book, level of over simplification,


is ******* retarded.


THey are playing retard, so that they can avoid a serious look at the cost of their policies or the actual chances of success.

 

[Correll]

You are the type person the Russians love. You are disgusting. I think you know you are disgusting.

And as predicted, you pivoted away from the issue of cost in ukrainian lives or likelyhood of success.


you choose standard lib tactic of PERSONAL ATTACK.


YOU are teh person that wants to see the dying continue, even though you know that the odds of victory are low, and even if that does happen, it will talke a long time and a massive death toll.


YOU are the disgusting monster.


On some level, ,you know that your policy of continuing the war, despite the huge cost is human lives and the low chance of success,

is wrong, morally wrong.


So you run away from honest or serious discussion of the cost.



You are willing to do wrong, for reasons that you will not share.

 

[Correll]

The chance of Trump giving up all the territory that hundreds of thousands of Russians have fought and died for is just about zero.

You choose option two, RED BAITING.


If you believed, truly believed that the human cost of the war, even if it takes a long time, would be WORTH the benefit to the world, of a final Ukrainian Victory,

you would be willing to at least TRY to make an argument, that continuing the war makes sense and is worth it.


But, you and by you, I mean ALL OF YOU PRO-WAR people,


ALWAYS run away from any serious discussion of the question, IS THE WAR WORTH THE COST.



This indicates that you, YOU believe that the answer is NO.


Becasue if you believed it was, you would try to make that case.


So, you know that the war is not worth the cost, and yet you want to wage teh war ANYWAYS.


That is evil and vile beyond words.


And it raises the question, what is your real motive, as it clearly is not the good of the ukrainian people?

 

[BothWings]

He knows Ukraine has been used by the American Deep State to mess with Russia for over a decade now. He has reason not to trust the American government. There is plenty the Deep State would attempt to do behind the scenes with or without presidential approval to keep weakening Russia. Only a fool would back off with the CiA continuing to arm Ukraine and empower Zelensky.

 

[Couchpotato]

Why would Putin not want a cease fire while a long term peace agreement is finalized.
A cease fire would stop the killing of many Russians. It would stop the monetary cost of war.
If you are committed to peace, stop the fighting and work out an agreement.

1, All the talk of the war guarantees for Ukraine is a nonstarter for Russia.
2, Russia isnt losing troops running airstrikes.
3, keeping the pressure on keeps the public against the war continuing. Currently 70% of the Ukrainian public wants the war to end immediately. As in they want the brokered peace sign and are fine with giving up land to get it.

 

[Couchpotato]

The chance of Trump giving up all the territory that hundreds of thousands of Russians have fought and died for is just about zero.

How is Trump giving up Ukrainian land? The Russians currently have the land and Ukraine has no way to force Russia to give it back, any more than Trump does. What negotiating leverage does Trump have to get the Donbas and Luhansk back from Russia. The last Admin could have gotten them back and save hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian deaths at the same time if it hadn't scuttled the peace deal that was on the table soon after the war started.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Seymour Flops]

How is Trump giving up Ukrainian land? The Russians currently have the land and Ukraine has no way to force Russia to give it back, any more than Trump does. What negotiating leverage does Trump have to get the Donbas and Luhansk back from Russia. The last Admin could have gotten them back and save hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian deaths at the same time if it hadn't scuttled the peace deal that was on the table soon after the war started.

This "every inch returned" demand must have been authored by the arms industry, the only ones winning the war in Ukraine.

I've ask the warhawks this question over and over, and I'll ask it now of Flopper:

What is your plan to force Russia to give back the land that they have taken?

You know the follow up, but I'll ask the obvious: Why din't Joe Biden do whatever you claim will accomplish that?

 

[Mac1958]

Trump is more concerned about Russian soldiers than Ukrainian soldiers.

It's a little difficult to believe that Trump still thinks Putin wants peace. Who knows, maybe he really has that much blind admiration for his hero. He doesn't trust Europe, but he trusts Putin to hold to his word.

So much admiration that he's willing to let innocent Ukrainians die instead of following through on his threat to cripple Russia with the sanctions he promised. Then he ******* blames Zelensky for being invaded. Typical.

TACO, TACO, TACO.

 

[Correll]

This "every inch returned" demand must have been authored by the arms industry, the only ones winning the war in Ukraine.

I've ask the warhawks this question over and over, and I'll ask it now of Flopper:

What is your plan to force Russia to give back the land that they have taken?

You know the follow up, but I'll ask the obvious: Why din't Joe Biden do whatever you claim will accomplish that?

He won't answer. He will pivot. Probably by talking some emotional appeal shit about Ukrainians being attacked or HITLER.

Pro-war leftists, ALWAYS dodge any discussion on the cost of the war, in human lives.


ALWAYS.

 

[Correll]

It's a little difficult to believe that Trump still thinks Putin wants peace. Who knows, maybe he really has that much blind admiration for his hero.

So much admiration that he's willing to let innocent Ukrainians die instead of following through on his threat to cripple Russia with the sanction he promised. Then he ******* blames Zelensky for being invaded. Typical.

TACO, TACO, TACO.

It's dumb to talk like this.

You sort of made a half point, ie "difficult trump putin wants peace".

BUt you buried it in partisan swill.


Trump doesn't look to PUtin as a "hero". THat's a dumb thing for you to say.


Very dumb. DUMB.

 

[initforme]

Its up to the two leaders of the two sides to sit down and come up with an agreement. I think trump is at least trying to make that happen. Its a tenuous situation and the only resolution is if the two sides involved negotiate.

 

[Seymour Flops]

So much admiration that he's willing to let innocent Ukrainians die instead of following through on his threat to cripple Russia with the sanctions he promised.

If Trump puts crippling sanctions on Russia, will Russia return to Ukraine every inch of land they have captured?

 

[Invisibleflash]

Why would Putin not want a cease fire while a long term peace agreement is finalized.
A cease fire would stop the killing of many Russians. It would stop the monetary cost of war.
If you are committed to peace, stop the fighting and work out an agreement.

That is what the USA has always done. Same as Minsk 1 and 2 that failed. Look at what the USA and the Jews did in Iran. Beg for a cease fire, rearm and attack at a later date.

It is a simple matter for Ukraine. Agree to never join NATO. Agree to be neutral. Can't do that? Bomb the **** out of them.

It is all ******* lies, bub. Look at pos Trump. He is pretending the USA is a neutral party trying to negotiate peace. All the while the USA is the one behind all this mess.

 

[Couchpotato]

It's a little difficult to believe that Trump still thinks Putin wants peace. Who knows, maybe he really has that much blind admiration for his hero. He doesn't trust Europe, but he trusts Putin to hold to his word.

So instead of trying to get to a peace where innocent Ukrainians will stop dying, we need to escalate the war so that more will die?

So much admiration that he's willing to let innocent Ukrainians die instead of following through on his threat to cripple Russia with the sanctions he promised. Then he ******* blames Zelensky for being invaded. Typical.

TACO, TACO, TACO.

What are these sanctions that would cripple Russia and why have we not already enacted them? If there were some simple lever to be pulled in order to bring this war to an end via sanctions why did the last admin choose not to pull it?

 

[Correll]

So instead of trying to get to a peace where innocent Ukrainians will stop dying, we need to escalate the war so that more will die?


What are these sanctions that would cripple Russia and why have we not already enacted them? If there were some simple lever to be pulled in order to bring this war to an end via sanctions why did the last admin choose not to pull it?

He won't answer that. He will be snide and condescending.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Agreed. It is also possible that the Ukrainians could collapse. FAILURE and LOSING are still on the table as possiblities.

The way the pro-war people want to frame the discussion, the... simplistic to the point of being a ******* comic book, level of over simplification,


is ******* retarded.


THey are playing retard, so that they can avoid a serious look at the cost of their policies or the actual chances of success.

The biggest "pro war" person is Putin. Without Putin no one would be talking war.

 

[Correll]

The biggest "pro war" person is Putin. Without Putin no one would be talking war.

My point was that people like you, are not prepared to discuss the cost of the war, in human lives, nor how likely it is that you will achieve your goals.



Your snide, stupid comment, didn't address that. It was an attempt to distract from that, with a stupid comment.


You just proved my point. AND, you will prove it again, by still not addressing the cost.