Why would Putin not want a cease fire while a long term peace agreement is finalized.

[ElmerMudd]

How is Trump giving up Ukrainian land? The Russians currently have the land and Ukraine has no way to force Russia to give it back, any more than Trump does. What negotiating leverage does Trump have to get the Donbas and Luhansk back from Russia. The last Admin could have gotten them back and save hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian deaths at the same time if it hadn't scuttled the peace deal that was on the table soon after the war started.

Why are you pro-Russia. Are you advocate of communism or an advocate of an autocracy

 

[Correll]

Why are you pro-Russia. Are you advocate of communism or an advocate of an autocracy

He asked a lot of reasonable questions.

YOu answered none of them.


It is like you are retarded.

 

[ElmerMudd]

And as predicted, you pivoted away from the issue of cost in ukrainian lives or likelyhood of success.


you choose standard lib tactic of PERSONAL ATTACK.


YOU are teh person that wants to see the dying continue, even though you know that the odds of victory are low, and even if that does happen, it will talke a long time and a massive death toll.


YOU are the disgusting monster.


On some level, ,you know that your policy of continuing the war, despite the huge cost is human lives and the low chance of success,

is wrong, morally wrong.


So you run away from honest or serious discussion of the cost.



You are willing to do wrong, for reasons that you will not share.

I will let the Ukranians determine what they are willing to do to end the war. It is their country. But my personal support is for the Ukraine not Russia. Ukraine was invaded by Russia and Putin. To push the Russian propaganda, like you do, is beyond disgusting.

 

[ElmerMudd]

He asked a lot of reasonable questions.

YOu answered none of them.


It is like you are retarded.

A person with special needs is a much better human than you.
You are a person that kisses the ass of the stong and attack the weak. Disgusting.

 

[Kondor3]

Why would Putin not want a cease fire while a long term peace agreement is finalized.
A cease fire would stop the killing of many Russians. It would stop the monetary cost of war.
If you are committed to peace, stop the fighting and work out an agreement.

Vlad doesn't give a rat's a$$ about Russian lives in this context...

They are merely a means-to-an-end...

His end-game is to restore the Russian Empire, metaphorically (or not?) speaking...

In pursuit of that end, Ukraine is the first Big Chunk of Land to Gobble-Up...

There's even a sentimental component to this...

Russia was first known as Kievan Rus...

Scandinavian-Norse-Viking nomads first settled in the vicinity of Kiev in the 882 A.D. time frame... a very long time ago...

Those Norsemen spread-out over the years, conquered the locals, assimilated, and ended-up as a Muscovite empire...

So Vlad and his minions no doubt also dust off those old emotional connections to keep the rubes fired-up and fighting...

Anyway...

Every day that Vlad keeps troops in-the-field and on the offensive is another day in which more land might be grabbed...

The more land he grabs the less likely it is that Ukraine can obtain favorable terms to end the fighting...

And, of course, if Vlad DOES manage to stumble-upon the Ukrainian "breaking point" then he'll gobble-up the whole thing...

He is backed by China and Iran and North Korea and, to a lesser extent, India and other BRICS countries...

In the final analysis there isn't jack-$hit that the US or NATO or the EU can do to turn-the-screws and apply yet more pressure...

Unless it's another massive infusion of even longer-range weaponry and, by now, probably, mercenaries to supplement field forces...

Vlad has zero... ZERO... incentive to stop...

The Russians only understand brute force...

So, unless The West can help the Ukrainians apply enough brute force against Russia to make Vlad squeal, it's all a moot point...

Trump appears to be slowly reaching the conclusion that he should not be seen by History as another Neville Chamberlain...

We'll see what the next few weeks bring...

 

[Couchpotato]

Why are you pro-Russia. Are you advocate of communism or an advocate of an autocracy

This isn't a pro Russia stance. It's a pro reality stance. How is what I posted "pro Russia"? Or Pro communism (not that Russia is communist anymore but whatever) or pro autocracy?

"Russia bad", and "Trump idiot" doesn't change the facts of the situation.

 

[Correll]

I will let the Ukranians determine what they are willing to do to end the war. It is their country. But my personal support is for the Ukraine not Russia. Ukraine was invaded by Russia and Putin. To push the Russian propaganda, like you do, is beyond disgusting.

Here you dodge the crux of the matter, by using Standard Lib Tactic of Appeal to Emotion, specifically Sympathy for Ukraine.


Discussing the cost of the war, and the likelyhood of achieving victory is not "russian propaganda",


but the normal cost/benefit analysis, that should be done with all policies.


That you want to NOT discuss the cost of your policy, and to use Appeal to Emotion and lies, to avoid it,


shows that your intent is NOT GOOD.


And that you know it.


If you were sincere, in your belief that your policy would lead to an Ukrainian victory in a reasonable time frame, for a reasonable cost in lives,

you would be happy to have that discussion.

Why would you not?


BUT, you don't believe that. You agree with me and mine, that the war is and will continue to be a bloody meatgrinder, to no good end, in any reasonable time frame.

 

[OldFlame]

Here you dodge the crux of the matter, by using Standard Lib Tactic of Appeal to Emotion, specifically Sympathy for Ukraine.


Discussing the cost of the war, and the likelyhood of achieving victory is not "russian propaganda",


but the normal cost/benefit analysis, that should be done with all policies.


That you want to NOT discuss the cost of your policy, and to use Appeal to Emotion and lies, to avoid it,


shows that your intent is NOT GOOD.


And that you know it.


If you were sincere, in your belief that your policy would lead to an Ukrainian victory in a reasonable time frame, for a reasonable cost in lives,

you would be happy to have that discussion.

Why would you not?


BUT, you don't believe that. You agree with me and mine, that the war is and will continue to be a bloody meatgrinder, to no good end, in any reasonable time frame.

That's because he's anti Russia, not pro Ukrainian, he doesn't care what happens to Ukraine or her people, he just wants pain inflicted on Putin. Because of this he can't honestly discuss any 'policy', it gets in the way of his true motives. It's the same way they treat Trump, anything he is for, they are against, doesn't matter what it is. They're basically TDS brain dead fools.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Here you dodge the crux of the matter, by using Standard Lib Tactic of Appeal to Emotion, specifically Sympathy for Ukraine.


Discussing the cost of the war, and the likelyhood of achieving victory is not "russian propaganda",


but the normal cost/benefit analysis, that should be done with all policies.


That you want to NOT discuss the cost of your policy, and to use Appeal to Emotion and lies, to avoid it,


shows that your intent is NOT GOOD.


And that you know it.


If you were sincere, in your belief that your policy would lead to an Ukrainian victory in a reasonable time frame, for a reasonable cost in lives,

you would be happy to have that discussion.

Why would you not?


BUT, you don't believe that. You agree with me and mine, that the war is and will continue to be a bloody meatgrinder, to no good end, in any reasonable time frame.

The cost benefit analysis needs to be done the people of Ukraine. Not you or me.
There is the reality on the ground right now that they must assess.
The reality of the war is Russia invaded Ukraine.
To deny that is worse than denying the what the reality is right now.

One thing is for sure, Trump is not dealing with reality of who started the war or the reality on the ground.
He thinks he has big influence on Putin because they are friends. Putin is using him and people like you.

A cost benefit analysis has to be done by the free nations of the world of the danger of Russia as it continues to have expansion goals.

 

[JWBooth]

The cost benefit analysis needs to be done the people of Ukraine. Not you or me.
There is the reality on the ground right now that they must assess.
The reality of the war is Russia invaded Ukraine.
To deny that is worse than denying the what the reality is right now.

One thing is for sure, Trump is not dealing with reality of who started the war or the reality on the ground.
He thinks he has big influence on Putin because they are friends. Putin is using him and people like you.

A cost benefit analysis has to be done by the free nations of the world of the danger of Russia as it continues to have expansion goals.

So, any excuse to keep feeding Ukes to the meat grinder.
To the extent that polling is to be believed, the Uke population has done it’s cost benefit analysis and they want it over now, territory retention be damned. It’s clowns like yourself that want to keep this going. Clowns with no skin in the game.

 

[Couchpotato]

The cost benefit analysis needs to be done the people of Ukraine. Not you or me.
There is the reality on the ground right now that they must assess.
The reality of the war is Russia invaded Ukraine.
To deny that is worse than denying the what the reality is right now.

They did it and they overwhelmingly decided they wanted an end to the war. Immediately. as in a brokered peace. As in trading land for peace. 70% of them. So are you on board with ending the war now?

One thing is for sure, Trump is not dealing with reality of who started the war or the reality on the ground.
He thinks he has big influence on Putin because they are friends. Putin is using him and people like you.

At this point who started it is basically irrelevant. Who was in the right will have zero to do with what the deal ends up being. As far as the reality on the ground what parts is the current admin ignoring?

A cost benefit analysis has to be done by the free nations of the world of the danger of Russia as it continues to have expansion goals.

This Russia has invaded far fewer countries than the US in the past 20 years....

 

[ElmerMudd]

So, any excuse to keep feeding Ukes to the meat grinder.
To the extent that polling is to be believed, the Uke population has done it’s cost benefit analysis and they want it over now, territory retention be damned. It’s clowns like yourself that want to keep this going. Clowns with no skin in the game.

Can't you read? I said it is up to the Ukranian people and their government to decide if they are willing to meet Russia's demands to end the war.

I don't want any war.

The bad actors are Putin and Russia, Hamas, Netanyahu etc.

Idiots like you blame democrats or anti-Trumpers or whoever.
You protect the bastards that are responsible for war.

 

[ElmerMudd]

They did it and they overwhelmingly decided they wanted an end to the war. Immediately. as in a brokered peace. As in trading land for peace. 70% of them. So are you on board with ending the war now?

At this point who started it is basically irrelevant. Who was in the right will have zero to do with what the deal ends up being. As far as the reality on the ground what parts is the current admin ignoring?


This Russia has invaded far fewer countries than the US in the past 20 years....

Russia has invaded Georgia and Ukraine twice, in the past 20 years, with one purpose, expansion.

In the past 20 years (2005-2025), the United States has invaded or conducted military actions in Aghanistan and Iraq with one purpose, war on terror.
There were mistakes made in both wars but the purpose was understandable.
What would you have done after 9/11.

You have higher regard of Russia than the USA. Why don't you move there.

 

[Couchpotato]

Russia has invaded Georgia and Ukraine twice, in the past 20 years, with one purpose, expansion.

In the past 20 years (2005-2025), the United States has invaded or conducted military actions in Aghanistan and Iraq with one purpose, war on terror.
There were mistakes made in both wars but the purpose was understandable.
What would you have done after 9/11.

You have higher regard of Russia than the USA. Why don't you move there.

You’re forgetting Syria. The drone bombing campaign in Yemen. Coups in Egypt, Libya, Ukraine, and Syria. And most recently the bombing of Iran.

Iraq and Syria had nothing to do with terrorism. I guess Syria technically did but it was a terrorism problem we created.

Operations in Afghanistan had little to nothing to do with terrorism post Dec 2001. Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were out of Afghanistan by then. The next 19 years were just occupation of a country because we didn’t approve of the type of Government they had. Oh and after all that they have the exact same Government they had before we got there.

We bombed Yemen and the Hourhis at the behest of Saudi Arabia. Not sure if you’re aware of this but Saudi is an autocracy.

We ran a coup in Libya getting its leader raped to death in the streets so that Hillary could boast about her foreign war bona fides. Libya is a terrorist haven now and has open slave markets!!! Woohoo. Nice one

We over threw the leader in Syria and installed the former leader of Al Qeada there.

We bombed Iran at the behest of Israel.

We ran the coup in Ukraine because the democraticly elected leader of Unkraine was too favorable to Russia.

You don’t have to put your head in the sand about the bullshit the US does to love and support her. I would argue doing so shows a lack of support for the country. I want our country to do better. You just want to cheerlead regardless of what it’s doing.

 

[berg80]

Did anyone catch Lavrov on the tube this morning saying there are no scheduled talks between Putin and Zelenskyy? And no plans to schedule any. This is not going to please Don. After all, the only thing he wants as much as dictatorial power is a Nobel peace prize.

 

[ElmerMudd]

You’re forgetting Syria. The drone bombing campaign in Yemen. Coups in Egypt, Libya, Ukraine, and Syria. And most recently the bombing of Iran.

Iraq and Syria had nothing to do with terrorism. I guess Syria technically did but it was a terrorism problem we created.

Operations in Afghanistan had little to nothing to do with terrorism post Dec 2001. Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were out of Afghanistan by then. The next 19 years were just occupation of a country because we didn’t approve of the type of Government they had. Oh and after all that they have the exact same Government they had before we got there.

We bombed Yemen and the Hourhis at the behest of Saudi Arabia. Not sure if you’re aware of this but Saudi is an autocracy.

We ran a coup in Libya getting its leader raped to death in the streets so that Hillary could boast about her foreign war bona fides. Libya is a terrorist haven now and has open slave markets!!! Woohoo. Nice one

We over threw the leader in Syria and installed the former leader of Al Qeada there.

We bombed Iran at the behest of Israel.

We ran the coup in Ukraine because the democraticly elected leader of Unkraine was too favorable to Russia.

You don’t have to put your head in the sand about the bullshit the US does to love and support her. I would argue doing so shows a lack of support for the country. I want our country to do better. You just want to cheerlead regardless of what it’s doing.

You are a USA hater.
Trump is trying to erase any mention that the US did anything wrong in it's history.
If that is his goal, he should kick your sorry ass out of the country.
There are very few things, that Trump does, that I support. But I would support him kicking your ass out of the country.

 

[Couchpotato]

You are a USA hater.
Trump is trying to erase any mention that the US did anything wrong in it's history.
If that is his goal, he should kick your sorry ass out of the country.
There are very few things, that Trump does, that I support. But I would support him kicking your ass out of the country.

Can’t help but notice that you didn’t actually refute anything I said

 

[Correll]

That's because he's anti Russia, not pro Ukrainian, he doesn't care what happens to Ukraine or her people, he just wants pain inflicted on Putin. Because of this he can't honestly discuss any 'policy', it gets in the way of his true motives. It's the same way they treat Trump, anything he is for, they are against, doesn't matter what it is. They're basically TDS brain dead fools.

Yep.

I think it is because the russians failed at communism. As everyone who tries it does.


THe lefties will never forgive the russians for that. I think they hate the russians more for that, then they hate Americans for slavery.

 

[Correll]

The cost benefit analysis needs to be done the people of Ukraine. Not you or me.
There is the reality on the ground right now that they must assess.
.....

Bullshit. Our choice to support them, rather blindly or grudgingly, is a POLICY, that in any serious or good faith discussion, we would discuss.


YOu are talking shit and nonsense, to justify your policy , WHICH YOU YOURSELF KNOW, is a bad policy.


You are dodging discussing the cost, BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU CANNOT DEFEND YOUR POLICY.


You are a dishonest piece of shit.

The rest of your post was even dumber than that. ******* retarded shit.

 

[ElmerMudd]

Bullshit. Our choice to support them, rather blindly or grudgingly, is a POLICY, that in any serious or good faith discussion, we would discuss.


YOu are talking shit and nonsense, to justify your policy , WHICH YOU YOURSELF KNOW, is a bad policy.


You are dodging discussing the cost, BECAUSE YOU KNOW YOU CANNOT DEFEND YOUR POLICY.


You are a dishonest piece of shit.

The rest of your post was even dumber than that. ******* retarded shit.

If you want to say the USA should provide no aid or assistance then say it.

What Ukraine should do is their business, not yours.