Why the Choice to Be Childless is Bad for America

What do you think about childree movement?

"
Sitting around a table at a hookah bar in New York’s East Village with three women and a gay man, all of them in their 20s and 30s and all resolved to remain childless, a few things quickly became clear: First, for many younger Americans and especially those in cities, having children is no longer an obvious or inevitable choice. Second, many of those opting for childlessness have legitimate, if perhaps selfish, reasons for their decision.

I like seeing people with their children, because they have their special bond, and that’s really sweet, but it’s not something I look at for myself,” says Tiffany Jordan, a lively 30-year-old freelance wardrobe stylist who lives in Queens in a rent-stabilized apartment and dates a man who “practically lives there.

Jordan and her friends are part of a rising tide. Postfamilial America is in ascendancy as the fertility rate among women has plummeted, since the 2008 economic crisis and the Great Recession that followed, to its lowest level since reliable numbers were first kept in 1920. That downturn has put the U.S. fertility rate increasingly in line with those in other developed economies—suggesting that even if the economy rebounds, the birthrate may not. For many individual women considering their own lives and careers, children have become a choice, rather than an inevitable milestone—and one that comes with more costs than benefits.

“I don’t know if that’s selfish,” says Jordan, the daughter of an Ecuadoran and an Ohioan who grew up in the South Bronx, explaining her reasons for a decision increasingly common among women across the developed world, where more than half of the world’s population is now reproducing at below the replacement rate. “I feel like my life is not stable enough, and I don’t think I necessarily want it to be ... Kids, they change your entire life. That’s the name of the game. And that’s not something I’m interested in doing.”

The global causes of postfamilialism are diverse, and many, on their own, are socially favorable or at least benign. The rush of people worldwide into cities, for example, has ushered in prosperity for hundreds of millions, allowing families to be both smaller and more prosperous. Improvements in contraception and increased access to it have given women far greater control of their reproductive options, which has coincided with a decline in religion in most advanced countries. With women’s rights largely secured in the First World and their seats in the classroom, the statehouse, and the boardroom no longer tokens or novelties, children have ceased being an economic or cultural necessity for many or an eventual outcome of sex"

Source

I don't have any kids because of a combination of:
-no rush to have any, not ruling it out
-don't care about your reasons why I should have kids
-practices safe sex that's why I don't have kids at this point
-I could be shooting blanks but I always wear a condom, so who knows about that.
-I don't really think about it.
-Are you that crazy ex that tried to pressure me into marriage and kids after going out with her for 6 months?
-Maybe I have a secret kid that I can't talk about because CIA.
-Maybe I have bread with an alien, more CIA.
-I wish the CIA didn't take my unisex earthling/236sxB son/daughter away from me.
-Just kidding about the CIA
-Now that I think about it I was pretty wild back in the day, maybe there is a Wheelie jr. I don't know about.
-Do beer children count?
-Getting kicked in the balls may have rendered me impotent, it's a real possibility I didn't think about much until now.
-Or maybe it was casing it a bunch of times on a motocross bike, slamming my balls into the gas tank.
-It's easier to wheelie with a girl on the back, that probably scares them away though they may think I'm reckless. Holy crap that's why I don't have kids.
 
lol

You think I give a flying **** what you believe?
Obviously you do give more than a flying ****. You tried to convince me you willingly had a vasectomy. :laugh:
I didn't try to convince you of anything I merely mentioned it once

And yet you seem to have to respond to me even though you don't believe what I post
I never asked you to mention it so stop trying to convince me.

Responding to you has nothing to do with believing you. Its good to laugh early in the morning.
laugh.gif

Oh so now before anyone can say anything to you you have to ask them first?
You can say what you want. The point is that I dont believe you yet you insist on trying to convince me all while claiming you dont give a ****. We both know that you do care deeply or you wouldnt have mentioned it.
I don't believe you had 3 kids while your partner was on birth control yet you've spent pages trying to convince me of that so for once take your own advice
 
Obviously you do give more than a flying ****. You tried to convince me you willingly had a vasectomy. :laugh:
I didn't try to convince you of anything I merely mentioned it once

And yet you seem to have to respond to me even though you don't believe what I post
I never asked you to mention it so stop trying to convince me.

Responding to you has nothing to do with believing you. Its good to laugh early in the morning.
laugh.gif

Oh so now before anyone can say anything to you you have to ask them first?
You can say what you want. The point is that I dont believe you yet you insist on trying to convince me all while claiming you dont give a ****. We both know that you do care deeply or you wouldnt have mentioned it.
I don't believe you had 3 kids while your partner was on birth control yet you've spent pages trying to convince me of that so for once take your own advice

Your belief on the subject is of no importance to me and you are being a drama queen. One post is not even one page. Its amusing when you deflect from the point. You were trying to convince me you could get someone pregnant. I dont believe it.
 
I didn't try to convince you of anything I merely mentioned it once

And yet you seem to have to respond to me even though you don't believe what I post
I never asked you to mention it so stop trying to convince me.

Responding to you has nothing to do with believing you. Its good to laugh early in the morning.
laugh.gif

Oh so now before anyone can say anything to you you have to ask them first?
You can say what you want. The point is that I dont believe you yet you insist on trying to convince me all while claiming you dont give a ****. We both know that you do care deeply or you wouldnt have mentioned it.
I don't believe you had 3 kids while your partner was on birth control yet you've spent pages trying to convince me of that so for once take your own advice

Your belief on the subject is of no importance to me and you are being a drama queen. One post is not even one page. Its amusing when you deflect from the point. You were trying to convince me you could get someone pregnant. I dont believe it.
yet you think your belief on a subject is important to me

And I never tried to convince you I can get someone pregnant since I told you I had a vasectomy for the specific purpose of making myself incapable of getting a woman pregnant
 
I never asked you to mention it so stop trying to convince me.

Responding to you has nothing to do with believing you. Its good to laugh early in the morning.
laugh.gif

Oh so now before anyone can say anything to you you have to ask them first?
You can say what you want. The point is that I dont believe you yet you insist on trying to convince me all while claiming you dont give a ****. We both know that you do care deeply or you wouldnt have mentioned it.
I don't believe you had 3 kids while your partner was on birth control yet you've spent pages trying to convince me of that so for once take your own advice

Your belief on the subject is of no importance to me and you are being a drama queen. One post is not even one page. Its amusing when you deflect from the point. You were trying to convince me you could get someone pregnant. I dont believe it.
yet you think your belief on a subject is important to me

And I never tried to convince you I can get someone pregnant since I told you I had a vasectomy for the specific purpose of making myself incapable of getting a woman pregnant
My belief is important to you. That much is obvious. Thats why you spent multiple posts trying to convince me.
 
Oh so now before anyone can say anything to you you have to ask them first?
You can say what you want. The point is that I dont believe you yet you insist on trying to convince me all while claiming you dont give a ****. We both know that you do care deeply or you wouldnt have mentioned it.
I don't believe you had 3 kids while your partner was on birth control yet you've spent pages trying to convince me of that so for once take your own advice

Your belief on the subject is of no importance to me and you are being a drama queen. One post is not even one page. Its amusing when you deflect from the point. You were trying to convince me you could get someone pregnant. I dont believe it.
yet you think your belief on a subject is important to me

And I never tried to convince you I can get someone pregnant since I told you I had a vasectomy for the specific purpose of making myself incapable of getting a woman pregnant
My belief is important to you. That much is obvious. Thats why you spent multiple posts trying to convince me.
just because you say something doesn't mean it's true

and please quote all of these multiple pages of quotes where I tried to convince you I was capable of getting a woman pregnant
 
You can say what you want. The point is that I dont believe you yet you insist on trying to convince me all while claiming you dont give a ****. We both know that you do care deeply or you wouldnt have mentioned it.
I don't believe you had 3 kids while your partner was on birth control yet you've spent pages trying to convince me of that so for once take your own advice

Your belief on the subject is of no importance to me and you are being a drama queen. One post is not even one page. Its amusing when you deflect from the point. You were trying to convince me you could get someone pregnant. I dont believe it.
yet you think your belief on a subject is important to me

And I never tried to convince you I can get someone pregnant since I told you I had a vasectomy for the specific purpose of making myself incapable of getting a woman pregnant
My belief is important to you. That much is obvious. Thats why you spent multiple posts trying to convince me.
just because you say something doesn't mean it's true

and please quote all of these multiple pages of quotes where I tried to convince you I was capable of getting a woman pregnant
I agree. Thats why I dont believe you.

Obviously you cant read well either. I didnt say multiple pages. I said multiple posts. :laugh:
 
I don't believe you had 3 kids while your partner was on birth control yet you've spent pages trying to convince me of that so for once take your own advice

Your belief on the subject is of no importance to me and you are being a drama queen. One post is not even one page. Its amusing when you deflect from the point. You were trying to convince me you could get someone pregnant. I dont believe it.
yet you think your belief on a subject is important to me

And I never tried to convince you I can get someone pregnant since I told you I had a vasectomy for the specific purpose of making myself incapable of getting a woman pregnant
My belief is important to you. That much is obvious. Thats why you spent multiple posts trying to convince me.
just because you say something doesn't mean it's true

and please quote all of these multiple pages of quotes where I tried to convince you I was capable of getting a woman pregnant
I agree. Thats why I dont believe you.

Obviously you cant read well either. I didnt say multiple pages. I said multiple posts. :laugh:
then quote the multiple posts

I actually reviewed the entire thread and not once did I try to convince you I could get a woman pregnant. I told you why I can't but never once tried to tell you I could
 
I love kids and wish I had more. I couldnt imagine not having children. What a sucky way to go through life. I guess if you dont know what you are missing then you dont know your life sucks. I feel for the people that cant have children.

I know exactly what I'm missing

Nothing at all

How do you know that?
Because I know many people who have kids.
It ain't rocket science to know what's involved in raising children




:lmao:
 
Your belief on the subject is of no importance to me and you are being a drama queen. One post is not even one page. Its amusing when you deflect from the point. You were trying to convince me you could get someone pregnant. I dont believe it.
yet you think your belief on a subject is important to me

And I never tried to convince you I can get someone pregnant since I told you I had a vasectomy for the specific purpose of making myself incapable of getting a woman pregnant
My belief is important to you. That much is obvious. Thats why you spent multiple posts trying to convince me.
just because you say something doesn't mean it's true

and please quote all of these multiple pages of quotes where I tried to convince you I was capable of getting a woman pregnant
I agree. Thats why I dont believe you.

Obviously you cant read well either. I didnt say multiple pages. I said multiple posts. :laugh:
then quote the multiple posts

I actually reviewed the entire thread and not once did I try to convince you I could get a woman pregnant. I told you why I can't but never once tried to tell you I could
If you were important I would quote the posts but since youre not you can re-review the entire thread until you figure it out. Meanwhile I have more important things to do other than allow you to attempt to convince me you can get anyone pregnant.
laugh.gif
 
yet you think your belief on a subject is important to me

And I never tried to convince you I can get someone pregnant since I told you I had a vasectomy for the specific purpose of making myself incapable of getting a woman pregnant
My belief is important to you. That much is obvious. Thats why you spent multiple posts trying to convince me.
just because you say something doesn't mean it's true

and please quote all of these multiple pages of quotes where I tried to convince you I was capable of getting a woman pregnant
I agree. Thats why I dont believe you.

Obviously you cant read well either. I didnt say multiple pages. I said multiple posts. :laugh:
then quote the multiple posts

I actually reviewed the entire thread and not once did I try to convince you I could get a woman pregnant. I told you why I can't but never once tried to tell you I could
If you were important I would quote the posts but since youre not you can re-review the entire thread until you figure it out. Meanwhile I have more important things to do other than allow you to attempt to convince me you can get anyone pregnant.
laugh.gif


the reason you won't quote said posts is because they do not exist
 
Last edited:
I love kids and wish I had more. I couldnt imagine not having children. What a sucky way to go through life. I guess if you dont know what you are missing then you dont know your life sucks. I feel for the people that cant have children.

I know exactly what I'm missing

Nothing at all

How do you know that?
Because I know many people who have kids.
It ain't rocket science to know what's involved in raising children




:lmao:
Agreed.
 
What do you think about childree movement?

"
Sitting around a table at a hookah bar in New York’s East Village with three women and a gay man, all of them in their 20s and 30s and all resolved to remain childless, a few things quickly became clear: First, for many younger Americans and especially those in cities, having children is no longer an obvious or inevitable choice. Second, many of those opting for childlessness have legitimate, if perhaps selfish, reasons for their decision.

I like seeing people with their children, because they have their special bond, and that’s really sweet, but it’s not something I look at for myself,” says Tiffany Jordan, a lively 30-year-old freelance wardrobe stylist who lives in Queens in a rent-stabilized apartment and dates a man who “practically lives there.

Jordan and her friends are part of a rising tide. Postfamilial America is in ascendancy as the fertility rate among women has plummeted, since the 2008 economic crisis and the Great Recession that followed, to its lowest level since reliable numbers were first kept in 1920. That downturn has put the U.S. fertility rate increasingly in line with those in other developed economies—suggesting that even if the economy rebounds, the birthrate may not. For many individual women considering their own lives and careers, children have become a choice, rather than an inevitable milestone—and one that comes with more costs than benefits.

“I don’t know if that’s selfish,” says Jordan, the daughter of an Ecuadoran and an Ohioan who grew up in the South Bronx, explaining her reasons for a decision increasingly common among women across the developed world, where more than half of the world’s population is now reproducing at below the replacement rate. “I feel like my life is not stable enough, and I don’t think I necessarily want it to be ... Kids, they change your entire life. That’s the name of the game. And that’s not something I’m interested in doing.”

The global causes of postfamilialism are diverse, and many, on their own, are socially favorable or at least benign. The rush of people worldwide into cities, for example, has ushered in prosperity for hundreds of millions, allowing families to be both smaller and more prosperous. Improvements in contraception and increased access to it have given women far greater control of their reproductive options, which has coincided with a decline in religion in most advanced countries. With women’s rights largely secured in the First World and their seats in the classroom, the statehouse, and the boardroom no longer tokens or novelties, children have ceased being an economic or cultural necessity for many or an eventual outcome of sex"

Source

Basically, what I take away from this is, anyone that does not have any children, is free to do so.

Anyone that wants to have children, is also free to do so.

However, if we are to maintain old age social insurance programs, that require younger workers to contribute to pay into them, one of two things needs to happen, folks need to contribute to the overall growth rate, or we need to encourage immigration.

Anyone who has studied the fall of the Roman Empire will tell you this.


Overall, I think the best solution to this would be to either do away with old age social security, or, if people do not have children, take away their government guaranteed social security.

Before the government guaranteed old age social security, having children was one way a person guaranteed they would be taken care of in their old age. Now it seems, from this analysis, really nothing has changed, this just applies to the whole nation. If a person expects that government or society to take care of them in their old age, they need to contribute to society by having children, that is all there is to this.

If a person does not wish to have children, then they need to set up a separate IRA, and not expect to draw on government old age services, or at least this is what the article would have us logically come to as a final conclusion.
 
Last edited:
If someone remains childless, and you take away their Social Security, will you stop deducting it from their paycheck and refund what they have already paid?
 
If someone remains childless, and you take away their Social Security, will you stop deducting it from their paycheck and refund what they have already paid?
Sounds like a great idea.
 
What do you think about childree movement?

"
Sitting around a table at a hookah bar in New York’s East Village with three women and a gay man, all of them in their 20s and 30s and all resolved to remain childless, a few things quickly became clear: First, for many younger Americans and especially those in cities, having children is no longer an obvious or inevitable choice. Second, many of those opting for childlessness have legitimate, if perhaps selfish, reasons for their decision.

I like seeing people with their children, because they have their special bond, and that’s really sweet, but it’s not something I look at for myself,” says Tiffany Jordan, a lively 30-year-old freelance wardrobe stylist who lives in Queens in a rent-stabilized apartment and dates a man who “practically lives there.

Jordan and her friends are part of a rising tide. Postfamilial America is in ascendancy as the fertility rate among women has plummeted, since the 2008 economic crisis and the Great Recession that followed, to its lowest level since reliable numbers were first kept in 1920. That downturn has put the U.S. fertility rate increasingly in line with those in other developed economies—suggesting that even if the economy rebounds, the birthrate may not. For many individual women considering their own lives and careers, children have become a choice, rather than an inevitable milestone—and one that comes with more costs than benefits.

“I don’t know if that’s selfish,” says Jordan, the daughter of an Ecuadoran and an Ohioan who grew up in the South Bronx, explaining her reasons for a decision increasingly common among women across the developed world, where more than half of the world’s population is now reproducing at below the replacement rate. “I feel like my life is not stable enough, and I don’t think I necessarily want it to be ... Kids, they change your entire life. That’s the name of the game. And that’s not something I’m interested in doing.”

The global causes of postfamilialism are diverse, and many, on their own, are socially favorable or at least benign. The rush of people worldwide into cities, for example, has ushered in prosperity for hundreds of millions, allowing families to be both smaller and more prosperous. Improvements in contraception and increased access to it have given women far greater control of their reproductive options, which has coincided with a decline in religion in most advanced countries. With women’s rights largely secured in the First World and their seats in the classroom, the statehouse, and the boardroom no longer tokens or novelties, children have ceased being an economic or cultural necessity for many or an eventual outcome of sex"

Source

Basically, what I take away from this is, anyone that does not have any children, is free to do so.

Anyone that wants to have children, is also free to do so.

However, if we are to maintain old age social insurance programs, that require younger workers to contribute to pay into them, one of two things needs to happen, folks need to contribute to the overall growth rate, or we need to encourage immigration.

Anyone who has studied the fall of the Roman Empire will tell you this.


Overall, I think the best solution to this would be to either do away with old age social security, or, if people do not have children, take away their government guaranteed social security.

Before the government guaranteed old age social security, having children was one way a person guaranteed they would be taken care of in their old age. Now it seems, from this analysis, really nothing has changed, this just applies to the whole nation. If a person expects that government or society to take care of them in their old age, they need to contribute to society by having children, that is all there is to this.

If a person does not wish to have children, then they need to set up a separate IRA, and not expect to draw on government old age services, or at least this is what the article would have us logically come to as a final conclusion.

If they wish not to have children then by your logic they should not pay taxes to send other people's children to school or pay for those on welfare.
 
15th post
I couldn't really say though, I was just reading in the social ramifications that the article was alluding to though.
 
What do you think about childree movement?

"
Sitting around a table at a hookah bar in New York’s East Village with three women and a gay man, all of them in their 20s and 30s and all resolved to remain childless, a few things quickly became clear: First, for many younger Americans and especially those in cities, having children is no longer an obvious or inevitable choice. Second, many of those opting for childlessness have legitimate, if perhaps selfish, reasons for their decision.

I like seeing people with their children, because they have their special bond, and that’s really sweet, but it’s not something I look at for myself,” says Tiffany Jordan, a lively 30-year-old freelance wardrobe stylist who lives in Queens in a rent-stabilized apartment and dates a man who “practically lives there.

Jordan and her friends are part of a rising tide. Postfamilial America is in ascendancy as the fertility rate among women has plummeted, since the 2008 economic crisis and the Great Recession that followed, to its lowest level since reliable numbers were first kept in 1920. That downturn has put the U.S. fertility rate increasingly in line with those in other developed economies—suggesting that even if the economy rebounds, the birthrate may not. For many individual women considering their own lives and careers, children have become a choice, rather than an inevitable milestone—and one that comes with more costs than benefits.

“I don’t know if that’s selfish,” says Jordan, the daughter of an Ecuadoran and an Ohioan who grew up in the South Bronx, explaining her reasons for a decision increasingly common among women across the developed world, where more than half of the world’s population is now reproducing at below the replacement rate. “I feel like my life is not stable enough, and I don’t think I necessarily want it to be ... Kids, they change your entire life. That’s the name of the game. And that’s not something I’m interested in doing.”

The global causes of postfamilialism are diverse, and many, on their own, are socially favorable or at least benign. The rush of people worldwide into cities, for example, has ushered in prosperity for hundreds of millions, allowing families to be both smaller and more prosperous. Improvements in contraception and increased access to it have given women far greater control of their reproductive options, which has coincided with a decline in religion in most advanced countries. With women’s rights largely secured in the First World and their seats in the classroom, the statehouse, and the boardroom no longer tokens or novelties, children have ceased being an economic or cultural necessity for many or an eventual outcome of sex"

Source

Basically, what I take away from this is, anyone that does not have any children, is free to do so.

Anyone that wants to have children, is also free to do so.

However, if we are to maintain old age social insurance programs, that require younger workers to contribute to pay into them, one of two things needs to happen, folks need to contribute to the overall growth rate, or we need to encourage immigration.

Anyone who has studied the fall of the Roman Empire will tell you this.


Overall, I think the best solution to this would be to either do away with old age social security, or, if people do not have children, take away their government guaranteed social security.

Before the government guaranteed old age social security, having children was one way a person guaranteed they would be taken care of in their old age. Now it seems, from this analysis, really nothing has changed, this just applies to the whole nation. If a person expects that government or society to take care of them in their old age, they need to contribute to society by having children, that is all there is to this.

If a person does not wish to have children, then they need to set up a separate IRA, and not expect to draw on government old age services, or at least this is what the article would have us logically come to as a final conclusion.

If they wish not to have children then by your logic they should not pay taxes to send other people's children to school or pay for those on welfare.
Not my logic, read the article. It had more to do with old age insurance, it said nothing about education.
 
What do you think about childree movement?

"
Sitting around a table at a hookah bar in New York’s East Village with three women and a gay man, all of them in their 20s and 30s and all resolved to remain childless, a few things quickly became clear: First, for many younger Americans and especially those in cities, having children is no longer an obvious or inevitable choice. Second, many of those opting for childlessness have legitimate, if perhaps selfish, reasons for their decision.

I like seeing people with their children, because they have their special bond, and that’s really sweet, but it’s not something I look at for myself,” says Tiffany Jordan, a lively 30-year-old freelance wardrobe stylist who lives in Queens in a rent-stabilized apartment and dates a man who “practically lives there.

Jordan and her friends are part of a rising tide. Postfamilial America is in ascendancy as the fertility rate among women has plummeted, since the 2008 economic crisis and the Great Recession that followed, to its lowest level since reliable numbers were first kept in 1920. That downturn has put the U.S. fertility rate increasingly in line with those in other developed economies—suggesting that even if the economy rebounds, the birthrate may not. For many individual women considering their own lives and careers, children have become a choice, rather than an inevitable milestone—and one that comes with more costs than benefits.

“I don’t know if that’s selfish,” says Jordan, the daughter of an Ecuadoran and an Ohioan who grew up in the South Bronx, explaining her reasons for a decision increasingly common among women across the developed world, where more than half of the world’s population is now reproducing at below the replacement rate. “I feel like my life is not stable enough, and I don’t think I necessarily want it to be ... Kids, they change your entire life. That’s the name of the game. And that’s not something I’m interested in doing.”

The global causes of postfamilialism are diverse, and many, on their own, are socially favorable or at least benign. The rush of people worldwide into cities, for example, has ushered in prosperity for hundreds of millions, allowing families to be both smaller and more prosperous. Improvements in contraception and increased access to it have given women far greater control of their reproductive options, which has coincided with a decline in religion in most advanced countries. With women’s rights largely secured in the First World and their seats in the classroom, the statehouse, and the boardroom no longer tokens or novelties, children have ceased being an economic or cultural necessity for many or an eventual outcome of sex"

Source

Basically, what I take away from this is, anyone that does not have any children, is free to do so.

Anyone that wants to have children, is also free to do so.

However, if we are to maintain old age social insurance programs, that require younger workers to contribute to pay into them, one of two things needs to happen, folks need to contribute to the overall growth rate, or we need to encourage immigration.

Anyone who has studied the fall of the Roman Empire will tell you this.


Overall, I think the best solution to this would be to either do away with old age social security, or, if people do not have children, take away their government guaranteed social security.

Before the government guaranteed old age social security, having children was one way a person guaranteed they would be taken care of in their old age. Now it seems, from this analysis, really nothing has changed, this just applies to the whole nation. If a person expects that government or society to take care of them in their old age, they need to contribute to society by having children, that is all there is to this.

If a person does not wish to have children, then they need to set up a separate IRA, and not expect to draw on government old age services, or at least this is what the article would have us logically come to as a final conclusion.

If they wish not to have children then by your logic they should not pay taxes to send other people's children to school or pay for those on welfare.
Not my logic, read the article. It had more to do with old age insurance, it said nothing about education.

Why should those that don't have children need to pay for their welfare and education when they retire they get nothing. Pretty screwy to me.
 
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