Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

[forkup]

Hope is the belief you can do what you think you cant do and then you do it. Or you might fail and learn from your mistake. You have to account for the dominant role emotions play in how we think. Emotions determine what you think you know and believe and for most people they have no idea what drives them. The Limbic system controls emotion and is the most powerful brain system. It can talk over all control. The prefrontal cortex which is rational thinking is weak in comparison. We can prove this with active scans and its always been well kwon in in psychology.

We’re not discussing hope, we’re discussing belief, both in the literal and epistemic sense.

I don’t deny that humans have deep psychological drives, or that emotion influences cognition. That’s well-known. But the existence of a psychological need doesn’t make a belief warranted. It only explains why people want to believe something, not whether the belief is true or justified.

And none of the arguments presented so far address the actual question of epistemic warrant.
They explain why belief feels compelling, not why the belief is reliable.

That’s the distinction I’m making.

 

[forkup]

Because it is my experience. I would like to know what theirs really is.

Ask them. I have on many occasions. Just like I ask you.

They all sound exactly like you. Different deity same argument.

 

[rightwinger]

And once again, you insisted on proof before you were willing to believe. Metaphorically speaking, you did not open the door, you still wanted somebody to bring back a plate of salad before you would.

No

I repeatedly went through that door because I was encouraged by others that there was a feast on the other side

I never found a feast

Fool me once….

 

[hobelim]

the first century events fizzled by the weight of the opposition jesus should have known their fate from the beginning than being forsaken,

Yes, Jesus did know their fate from the beginning (thats why he saw it as a duty to say something) and he already knew in graphic detail since childhood the ordeal he would face before he ever opened his mouth in public. And when Jesus said "Why have you forsaken me." he was reciting palm 22, a prayer demonstrating faith in his God.

My God.

It was not a cry of despair.

who's kidding who - the money changers religion, their politicians have been winning since time immemorial ... not all was lost nor buried and found by others as well and lives for another day hopefully soon.

Winning? I don't think so. Maybe in the eyes of the world they think they are winning something but that is just a desperate illusion, like a man dying of thirst and malnutrition in the desert dreaming about a feast at an oasis, but then wakes up with sand in his mouth. The point being, If God is God no one gets away with anything evil.... ever.

So take heart! As it is written, on whatever it is they write upon, judgment will come upon all the world like a trap.

 

[Hafar1014]

We’re not discussing hope, we’re discussing belief, both in the literal and epistemic sense.

I don’t deny that humans have deep psychological drives, or that emotion influences cognition. That’s well-known. But the existence of a psychological need doesn’t make a belief warranted. It only explains why people want to believe something, not whether the belief is true or justified.

And none of the arguments presented so far address the actual question of epistemic warrant.
They explain why belief feels compelling, not why the belief is reliable.

That’s the distinction I’m making.

Belief is hope. Your point applies to nonbelief as well.
Science isnt reliable 40% is invalid. So you must believe in science. You contradict your point. See the logic

 

[hobelim]

In a lab, when you combine chemical A with chemical B under the right combination of temperature and pressure, you can a consistent reaction and you say, "Ah, I proved something". You want to put God in that same situation, where you control the environment and the triggers and you can force God to do certain things on command. That's not how it works

Its not about forcing God to do certain things at your command. Its about God fulfilling the promise to reveal himself to anyone who heeds his commands which amount to instruction to not say and do stupid things (How hard is that?) or you will suffer, not as a punishment, but as a direct consequence of your own deliberate actions.

What you say and do or what you fail to say and do. Whether good or evil.

God, my God, has never needed any human element to either judge guilt or innocence or enforce his own Laws.

Thats being said, if a person wants to "see" God they should, like in a scientific experiment, make sure the lab, test tubes, beakers, instruments, etc., have been sterilized to avoid any contaminants skewing the results.

In this case the lab is your mind. When any person reads the Law, understands the subjects and purpose and then does it, it prepares the human mind to stand in the presence of my God, and then they will have the proof.

But just be careful. Don't knock on his door uninvited and assume God is down with your perverted ideas and say stupid things like those damn libtards, dems, immigrants, comedians, journalists, drug addicts, sinners, the homeless, the overweight, Mexicans, Puerto Ricans, Haitians, Blacks, Jews, unbelievers, lgbtq+, artists, actors, writers, the sick, the poor, the over worked, underpaid, and unwed mothers are screwing up the whole world.

If you do he will smack you upside your head and you'll fall from the sky like lightning into the depths of Gehenna before you even know what hit you or where you landed, if ever.

 

[Hafar1014]

The arguments against God are laughable irrational and based on distorting the meaning of the words truth fact and belief. These distortion happen because there is no science that can prove God does not exist. Yes science can and does prove negatives with negative correlational studies , null hypothesis, and evidence to the contrary.

What sets some, not all, atheists apart from believers is their compulsion to disprove them. Believers have no need to disprove non belief. They simply dont give a damn. But atheists will go to great lengths to prove God doesnt exist. Why. do they care? Do they have lack of faith in their own belief? Are they shamed by the relative success of religion in terms of family culture and morality. Will an atheist deny the validity and morality of the 10 commandments? no because they believe in them as well.
It creates the image that atheists are not secure in their beliefs as they have the compulsion to disprove believers.

This is America and atheists have right to believe in whatever they want. So do the rest of us. God bless them.

 

[rightwinger]

These distortion happen because there is no science that can prove God does not exist.

Can’t prove a negative
Just that it is improbable or unrealistic

You can’t prove that Santa, Astrology or magic fairies are not real.
Just point out there is no evidence of their existence

 

[Hafar1014]

Can’t prove a negative
Just that it is improbable or unrealistic

You can’t prove that Santa, Astrology or magic fairies are not real.
Just point out there is no evidence of their existence

False we do it all the time.
Negative correlational studies prove negatives
Proving evidence to the contrary proves a negative
Proving a null hypothesis

Santa is real hes a fictional character. Thats proven because you mentioned him. Context is everything.

Astrology can be proven false because its based on the positions of stars but doesnt account for their movement over time. Thats your null hypothesis.

You would have benefitted from a graduate level course in research methods.

 

[rightwinger]

False we do it all the time.
Negative correlational studies prove negatives
Proving evidence to the contrary proves a negative
Proving a null hypothesis

Santa is real hes a fictional character. Thats proven because you mentioned him. Context is everything.

Astrology can be proven false because its based on the positions of stars but doesnt account for their movement over time. Thats your null hypothesis.

You would have benefitted from a graduate level course in research methods.

Astrology is real because millions of people believe it is real

Same logic for believing in God

 

[hobelim]

But atheists will go to great lengths to prove God doesnt exist. Why. do they care?

When addled 'believers' try to impose their perverse view of the world on everyone else why wouldn't they care?

 

[Hafar1014]

When religious believers try to impose their perverse view of the world on everyone else why wouldn't they care?

Boohoo who is imposing their views on you? Do you live in Iran. I see youre a victim. Thats youre choice to drefine yourself that way

 

[hobelim]

Boohoo who is imposing their views on you? Do you live in Iran. I see youre a victim. Thats youre choice to drefine yourself that way

What blindness!

I am no victim. I have just stated a fact. Here so called "God fearing Jesus loving white nationalist patriotic Americans" have been promoting "family values", and, "law and order", flat out Nazi propaganda, openly trying to legislate their perverted view of morality to impose it on everyone, the entire country, ever since I can remember.

Where have you been living? With your head up your ass?

So remember.

When you hear church bells a ringing it amounts to a call to bring out your dead into a tomb, so jump on the cart.

 

[Hafar1014]

What blindness!

I am no victim. I have just stated a fact. Here so called "God fearing Jesus loving white nationalist patriotic Americans" have been promoting "family values", and, "law and order", flat out Nazi propaganda, openly trying to legislate their perverted view of morality to impose it on everyone, the entire country, ever since I can remember.

Where have you been living? With your head up your ass?

Youre a victim by self definition. Heres a hanky for the tears. Man up grow a spine. No one cares about changing your beliefs. You may be somewhat paranoid. Haldol can help with that or its just a moderate anxiety disorder. Ativan will help that. Try moving to NY or CA.

 

[hobelim]

Youre a victim by self definition. Heres a hanky for the tears. Man up grow a spine. No one cares about changing your beliefs. You may be somewhat paranoid. Haldol can help with that or its just a moderate anxiety disorder. Ativan will help that. Try moving to NY or CA.

Again.

What blindness!

Me pointing out the bastard child of politics and religion in government isn't crying about being a victim. I never gave a shit about religion or politics and still don't. I am just the Advocate for all of the people persecuted criminalized and left for dead by sanctimonious religious actors and lying frauds like those who insist there is a God who is incorporeal but obsessed with diet fashion and the sexual preferences of consenting adult bipeds.

Let me do this much for you.

A person cannot comply with the literal interpretation and application of the Law that prohibits eating the flesh of swine that do not ruminate without violating the deeper implications of the exact same Law because the teaching that the subject of Kosher law is about food is the flesh of swine that do not ruminate.

I would offer you a hanky or some really good drugs but that won't help you forget you have become a jackass.

 

[Hafar1014]

Again.

What blindness!

30 years as a therapist and a graduate degree in psychology allows me to see a victim. Grow a spine.

 

[hobelim]

30 years as a therapist and a graduate degree in psychology allows me to see a victim. Grow a spine.

Whoop di do. Now thats desperation. Pathetic and funny. You should be embarrassed. But thanks for the laughs.

wow. I can only wonder how many lives you fucked up with your "therapy".

I graduated cuma sum laude from the very prestigious NYC school of hard knocks. Nya na nana naa. Grow a set of balls. It is written. "No one whose balls have been crushed can be a member of the assembly of the Lord."

ITS THE LAW

 

[BreezeWood]

Because I actually have a relationship with Him. Without that relationship, it's all just another story.

sure you do and can that be assumed is purely personal, not shared with anyone else except maybe when you are lying on the couch - $150.00 an hour.

 

[Hafar1014]

Whoop di do. Now thats desperation. Pathetic and funny. You should be embarrassed. But thanks for the laughs.

I graduated cuma sum laude from the very prestigious NYC school of hard knocks. Grow a set of balls for it is written. "No one whose balls have been crushed can become a member of the assembly of the Lord."

ITS THE LAW

 

[Hafar1014]

Its Summa cum laude