Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

[Hafar1014]

Because faith is not necessary if there is evidence.

If you need evidence than your reality is very small. Faith and hope are needed if you intend to grow and succeed.

 

[Meriweather]

It isn't on me to claim God doesn't exists, ( Although I can disprove certain God claims easily) it's on you to prove it does because you claim he does. And my position is that until you do I have no reason to believe he does. That's the answer to the entire OP.

An analogy I have used before: There are pioneers/explorers and there are settlers. Some are happily settled in the physical world and have no need to explore beyond the physical into the spiritual. Unbelievers are like settlers who elect to stay where they are and what is familiar and unknowable to them; they see no need to go beyond what is familiar and what they knows. Why travel into the unknown and the unfamiliar? People of belief/faith are the explorers, the pioneer, stepping beyond the physical into the spiritual. They return with the testimony that the spiritual is worthy of exploring. Some will maintain the wilderness of the unknown, incorporeal spiritual is not worth leaving settled, physical knowledge and territory.

Settlers do not truly understand explorers/pioneers--and likewise explorers and pioneer do not truly understand settlers.

 

[alang1216]

Beliefs dont require evidence. Atheists believe there is no God and have zero evidence.

MY beliefs require evidence. Christians believe there is no Zeus and have zero evidence.

 

[forkup]

Because I actually have a relationship with Him. Without that relationship, it's all just another story.

So do all those other people who believe(d).

So again what's the difference? What makes your personal relationship with your deity more reliable than the relationship they have/had with theirs?

 

[hadit]

So do all those other people who believe(d).

So again what's the difference? What makes your personal relationship with your deity more reliable than the relationship they have/had with theirs?

Do they claim God actually resides in them?

 

[rightwinger]

I do not believe that you really opened the door. If you were just looking for evidence that God exists without admitting your need for Him, I don't think He's going to show up just to do tricks. What were you asking for?

I opened that door for 17 years

I did not see any food there but took the word of others that there was food behind the door

I also wanted there to be a Santa and continued to believe because I didn’t want to live in a world without Santa

Eventually, I admitted that Santa was just made up
Same with God

 

[forkup]

Do they claim God actually resides in them?

Some do others don't. Still doesn't answer the question.

Why is your personal experience more reliable than theirs.

 

[Hafar1014]

MY beliefs require evidence. Christians believe there is no Zeus and have zero evidence.

Beliefs dont require evidence. Go ahead and prove your beliefs with evidence. State what they are then prove them

 

[Hafar1014]

An analogy I have used before: There are pioneers/explorers and there are settlers. Some are happily settled in the physical world and have no need to explore beyond the physical into the spiritual. Unbelievers are like settlers who elect to stay where they are and what is familiar and unknowable to them; they see no need to go beyond what is familiar and what they knows. Why travel into the unknown and the unfamiliar? People of belief/faith are the explorers, the pioneer, stepping beyond the physical into the spiritual. They return with the testimony that the spiritual is worthy of exploring. Some will maintain the wilderness of the unknown, incorporeal spiritual is not worth leaving settled, physical knowledge and territory.

Settlers do not truly understand explorers/pioneers--and likewise explorers and pioneer do not truly understand settlers.

Poor analogy. Without the exploders who believe there is more beyond the horizon act on their beliefs. Settlers cant exist without them. So then belief is the beginning of growth. If everyone thought like atheists we would still live in caves. What would the world be without Magellan Columbus Leif Eerikson who use belief and hope to leap beyond what is known and discover a new world. The atheist looks at the horizon and states there is nothing there. The believer sees possibility. Hope and courage motivate exploration.

 

[hadit]

I opened that door for 17 years

I did not see any food there but took the word of others that there was food behind the door

I also wanted there to be a Santa and continued to believe because I didn’t want to live in a world without Santa

Eventually, I admitted that Santa was just made up
Same with God

It sounds like you wanted to believe as a child but then gave it up when God wouldn't answer the way you wanted Him to answer.

 

[forkup]

An analogy I have used before: There are pioneers/explorers and there are settlers. Some are happily settled in the physical world and have no need to explore beyond the physical into the spiritual. Unbelievers are like settlers who elect to stay where they are and what is familiar and unknowable to them; they see no need to go beyond what is familiar and what they knows. Why travel into the unknown and the unfamiliar? People of belief/faith are the explorers, the pioneer, stepping beyond the physical into the spiritual. They return with the testimony that the spiritual is worthy of exploring. Some will maintain the wilderness of the unknown, incorporeal spiritual is not worth leaving settled, physical knowledge and territory.

Settlers do not truly understand explorers/pioneers--and likewise explorers and pioneer do not truly understand settlers.

It's a faulty analogy. Being curious isn’t the same as having a reliable method for finding truth the issue isn’t who explores, but who can show that their map actually works.

I’m an extremely curious person, and that’s why I make a point of educating myself. If you care about knowing things, you have to distinguish what you know from what you believe otherwise curiosity becomes indistinguishable from imagination.

Where we differ is method: when the physical world doesn’t yet provide an answer, I don’t jump to one. You treat ‘spiritual’ answers as valid by default, but without a way to test or distinguish them from wishful thinking, competing traditions, or human psychology, there’s no way to know they’re true. That’s the entire problem.


Let me pose this question. It illustrates the problem.

What do you prefer when curious, and why.
-A likely wrong answer
-No answer at all.

That's the philosophical question here.

 

[Hafar1014]

It sounds like you wanted to believe as a child but then gave it up when God wouldn't answer the way you wanted Him to answer.

He blames God for his problems. Isnt that self contradictory? How can you blame what you claim doesnt exist.

 

[alang1216]

Beliefs dont require evidence. Go ahead and prove your beliefs with evidence. State what they are then prove them

I believe the plants and animals we see are descended from a common ancestor and the mechanism was evolution by natural selection.

 

[rightwinger]

It sounds like you wanted to believe as a child but then gave it up when God wouldn't answer the way you wanted Him to answer.

No
I gave it up when I realized there was no more proof of God than there was of Santa Claus

The fact that I wanted to believe was not proof

 

[rightwinger]

He blames God for his problems. Isnt that self contradictory? How can you blame what you claim doesnt exist.

I accept that I alone am responsible for dealing with my problems.
I don’t rely on some imaginary deity to solve them.

 

[Hafar1014]

It's a faulty analogy. Being curious isn’t the same as having a reliable method for finding truth the issue isn’t who explores, but who can show that their map actually works.

I’m an extremely curious person, and that’s why I make a point of educating myself. If you care about knowing things, you have to distinguish what you know from what you believe otherwise curiosity becomes indistinguishable from imagination.

Where we differ is method: when the physical world doesn’t yet provide an answer, I don’t jump to one. You treat ‘spiritual’ answers as valid by default, but without a way to test or distinguish them from wishful thinking, competing traditions, or human psychology, there’s no way to know they’re true. That’s the entire problem.

Hope is the belief you can do what you think you cant do and then you do it. Or you might fail and learn from your mistake. You have to account for the dominant role emotions play in how we think. Emotions determine what you think you know and believe and for most people they have no idea what drives them. The Limbic system controls emotion and is the most powerful brain system. It can talk over all control. The prefrontal cortex which is rational thinking is weak in comparison. We can prove this with active scans and its always been well kwon in in psychology.

 

[hadit]

Some do others don't. Still doesn't answer the question.

Why is your personal experience more reliable than theirs.

Because it is my experience. I would like to know what theirs really is.

 

[Hafar1014]

I accept that I alone am responsible for dealing with my problems.
I don’t rely on some imaginary deity to solve them.

Dont you have family and friends.

 

[hadit]

No
I gave it up when I realized there was no more proof of God than there was of Santa Claus

The fact that I wanted to believe was not proof

And once again, you insisted on proof before you were willing to believe. Metaphorically speaking, you did not open the door, you still wanted somebody to bring back a plate of salad before you would.

 

[Hafar1014]

Because it is my experience. I would like to know what theirs really is.

My personal experience has involved the afterlife in ways that cant be denied. I dont claim this proves God exists. It doers prove for me that we dont end when the body dies.