Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

[hobelim]

I don’t believe in magic

What was called the magical arts, magic or sorcery, is now well known as mind control, brainwashing. I once saw with my own eyes a great guy who everyone liked walk into a bible study class and walk out a pompous jackass.

I'm a believer.

 

[hadit]

yup

Seeing is believing

Believing a wild tale made up by someone a thousands of years ago is a hard sell

And here's the question I ask every non-believer. What evidence do you demand that God produce so you would believe and would you change your life if it was given you?

I've seen a guy admit that no amount of evidence he saw personally would be sufficient, that he had to have other people tell him they saw something. When I asked how that's different from people of faith believing what others told them, he had no answer.
I've seen people demand evidence that could be replicated in a lab. That's ridiculous, because that reduces God to an ATM. You know, push the right buttons in the right order and the goodies fall out.

What would it take for you, and how would you prevent God from having to present Himself to every single person who would refuse to believe you? That's where we are right now. I believe and have seen evidence while you refuse to believe me and demand evidence before you believe.

 

[rightwinger]

And here's the question I ask every non-believer. What evidence do you demand that God produce so you would believe and would you change your life if it was given yo

Simple request

Have God sit down and have a beer with me

 

[hobelim]

Simple request

Have God sit down and have a beer with me

Simple answer.

Purify your own mind and be refined and my God will make himself know to you while feasting at his table.

Think of it this way; If you want to meet the king and showed up dressed in filthy rags reeking of cheap beer and vomit the doorman will throw you out on your ass into the darkness where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Mine is also based on results and what has been seen throughout history.

Lie.

Your ad hoc nonsense about the minimum time it would take for abuogenesis pays deference to neither of these things.

You seem to just kind of shout out whatever you think sounds nice at the time.

 

[Meriweather]

Afraid it does

Belief in God requires a belief in magical beings that nobody has seen.

The point: Magic is about convincing people that which is there can be made to disappear--and then to reappear. It involves sleight of hand, misdirection, and is usually entertaining, even when done by an amateur just learning the craft.

 

[hadit]

Simple request

Have God sit down and have a beer with me

Careful what you ask for, He's been known to do it. In the meantime, I'm sure any of us would be glad to have a beer with you and answer any questions we can. A lot of people would be glad to have such an encounter with God.

 

[hadit]

The point: Magic is about convincing people that which is there can be made to disappear--and then to reappear. It involves sleight of hand, misdirection, and is usually entertaining, even when done by an amateur just learning the craft.

For some reason, the truly supernatural is extremely hard for some to believe in, even though science now believes in higher dimensions.

 

[Meriweather]

Simple request

Have God sit down and have a beer with me

Three times the Bible asserts that God should not be tested--it is a complete waste of time, rather like expecting a newborn to take an IQ test.

 

[rightwinger]

Three times the Bible asserts that God should not be tested--it is a complete waste of time, rather like expecting a newborn to take an IQ test.

Are you saying God would not have a beer with me?

I would buy the first round

 

[rightwinger]

The point: Magic is about convincing people that which is there can be made to disappear--and then to reappear. It involves sleight of hand, misdirection, and is usually entertaining, even when done by an amateur just learning the craft.

Kind of like the illusion religions use

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The point: Magic is about convincing people that which is there can be made to disappear--and then to reappear

No, that's your attempt to make up a brand new definition, because you think your magical beliefs are special and true and therefore don't go on the same shelf as psychics and astrology and 72 virgins in heaven, etc.

Sorry, you don't get to make up new definitions. You can just own your magical beliefs and admit they are special to you because you believe they are true.

That's as far as you can go.

 

[Meriweather]

Are you saying God would not have a beer with me?

I would buy the first round

I am questioning why you want God to have a beer with you. What is your purpose?

 

[Meriweather]

Kind of like the illusion religions use

Nothing like that. To see the differences clearly: Learn about magic; learn about religion.

 

[Meriweather]

No, that's your attempt to make up a brand new definition, because you think your magical beliefs are special and true and therefore don't go on the same shelf as psychics and astrology and 72 virgins in heaven, etc.

Sorry, you don't get to make up new definitions. You can just own your magical beliefs and admit they are special to you because you believe they are true.

That's as far as you can go.

Do either of you know anything about magic or anything about religion?

 

[alang1216]

It's not about following the rules to get saved. It's about G-d Himself providing the only means of Salvation, and being willing to repent of your sins and submit willingly and totally to Him and His perfect Will.

So Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Hindus all have an equal chance of getting saved?

 

[alang1216]

Every supernatural miracle of Jesus can be easily explained in a way that conforms to and can be confirmed by reality. Raising the dead, giving sight to the blind, feeding the multitude, healing the sick and paralyzed, etc., etc.

Pick a miracle, any miracle, and I will show you how.

That being said, consciousness itself which is incorporeal can be defined as supernatural. I know the jury is still out about whether consciousness exists outside the body and the material universe, but I have known for years.

You have known for years that consciousness exists outside the body and the material universe? Sounds rather mystical to me.

proof of the existence of my God

So you do believe in the supernatural?

 

[hobelim]

You have known for years that consciousness exists outside the body and the material universe? Sounds rather mystical to me.

So.

When you are dreaming are you having a mystical experience and where is this happening? Not in what you would call reality. Dreams are quite literally happening "outside the body and the material universe".

True?

So you do believe in the supernatural?

Let me put it this way.

People can only account for 4% of the universe. That leaves a lot of space for things that might appear to be supernatural. Like radio transmissions might seem to defy reality or be magical flying through invisible airwaves.

But is a natural aspect of the whole.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

The resurrection says otherwise.

Cross-Eyed Vision Impairment

Only the power-hungry Apostles claimed to have witnessed that. It saved their bacon. Otherwise, Jesus's followers would have all gone away in bitter disappointment at His wordly end.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Pointing out that belief correlates strongly with geography and historical context isn’t a moral argument, it’s an empirical observation. It’s not about what should be believed, but about what is believed, and where. That’s not a judgment. It’s a pattern. And it’s testable.

If every culture produces its own gods, and every era reshapes them, then the burden isn’t on me to look inward, it’s on you to explain why your god just happens to match your coordinates and temporal location.

That includes political illusions, such as our self-appointed rulers' lies about their totally owned Constitution and their hired "Founding Fathers"