Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

[alang1216]

I have personally known many people, Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Pagans, Hindu, Buddhist, Rastafarians, cops, criminals, hoods, and "sinners", who were, like me, born that way, immune to the poison of serpents. Many atheists and agnostics who need verifiable proof before they accept any belief as the irrefutable truth. Many rational intelligent people out there who just aren't that easily beguiled. Many who are not given to superstitious fantasy. And there are many more who had an awakening later in life and rose to everlasting life from the dead.

What that adds up to, however many people are aware, alive, and living free from guilt and shame? I don't know.

Maybe billions suffering the consequences from the cruelty, sadism, and greed of a few despicable demons who have usurped positions of authority, openly and brazenly standing in a high place where lowlifes do not belong.

To understand what Jesus meant by saying, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven." see Genesis 3:14

I think I'm partly there since, as an atheist, I'm free from the burden of the Law which is 'the death', a curse, for noncompliance, free from the fear of death, free from childhood Indoctrination, brainwashing, free to live life unfettered. I think.

I can't claim an awakening later in life and to rise to everlasting life from the dead or an understanding of what Jesus meant by saying, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" so I guess I have a ways to go.

 

[hobelim]

I think I'm partly there since, as an atheist, I'm free from the burden of the Law which is 'the death', a curse, for noncompliance, free from the fear of death, free from childhood Indoctrination, brainwashing, free to live life unfettered. I think.

I think that all you have to do is realize that by diligently standing guard over the sanctity of your own mind and not allowing any superstitious gobbledygook to take root and defile your mind you are already living a Kosher life.

Unaware.

And enjoying all of the promised blessings for doing so.


To be aware is to be alive.

I can't claim an awakening later in life and to rise to everlasting life from the dead or an understanding of what Jesus meant by saying, "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" so I guess I have a ways to go.

Jesus was teaching that it is a religious duty to relegate a certain human archetype to the lowest place in society.

See Gen. 3:14. I'm sure that you can see the wisdom of that. Failing to do so is why the world has gone to shit.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Greatest con job ever. Work your ass off for reward in the next life when it's too late to ask for a refund.

Cast Away Caste

That theology was invented and propagated by those who snatch up your due reward in this life. This was the same way the guillotine-fodder hereditary tyrants in India tricked the lower classes. "Roger, Rajah!"

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

What proof Christianity is real that other Religions can't claim similar levels of proof their religions are real?

The Toys-R-Us Temple

Not only other religions, but preacher-creatures could also prove the existence of Santa Claus by the same slippery, shallow, and self-serving arguments.

 

[theHawk]

Listen up.

In the very same day, years ago, you started blubbering on your knees to a counterfeit Jesus and accepted the Antichrist as your god and savior you died and descended into Gehenna, HELL, Hades, the realm of the dead.

You have your reward already!

What are you blabbering about?

 

[hobelim]

What are you blabbering about?

Exactly!

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The atheist's don't want God.

No, that's wild overgeneralization. Agnostics are also atheists simply by virtue of not accepting belief in any Gods. You areoversimplifying so you can wrap your mind around it and dismiss countless people you know nothing about with a wave of your hand.

I can definitely accept that many do not want YOUR god, because they, like me, think he is a vile character and would be better forgotten. Yes, personally, I am relieved your god almost certainly does not exist. That is true.

Many of these people remain agnostic and continue to search for a better god than what your book has to offer.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Genuine curiosity would ask how long ideal conditions would be required to exist in order for that to happen.

Uh, yeah, believe it or not, scientists thought of that before you did.

They now have it constrained to less than a few hundred million years (and shrinking every day). Which lends extremely strong support to the idea that life has evolved and will evolve countless times, in our universe. They know life formed in that small window, because they know about when the Earth cooled, and they know how old the oldest evidence of life on Earth is.

In special, stable places in the universe, it may persist for billions of years.

I think what you want is the specious approach you already tried:

By your specious, regressive argument, the probability of any event, ever, can be made to approach zero. Point at any rock on any beach. What are the odds it went west, instead of east? That it welled up from the mantle EXACTLY when and where it did? Etc etc, until you tire out and fall asleep, and the probability of that rock being there is virtually zero.

This is useless, regressive stuff. Yes, the probability of everything being EXACTLY AS IT IS HERE AND NOW is small. There is no reason even to delve into that tautology. It gets even smaller, when you realize how different the planet would be, had the Chixiclub meteor NOT hit its gravitational keyhole and had, instead, sailed right on by the earth.

 

[DennisPTate]

No, that's wild overgeneralization. Agnostics are also atheists simply by virtue of not accepting belief in any Gods. You areoversimplifying so you can wrap your mind around it and dismiss countless people you know nothing about with a wave of your hand.

I can definitely accept that many do not want YOUR god, because they, like me, think he is a vile character and would be better forgotten. Yes, personally, I am relieved your god almost certainly does not exist. That is true.

I think that it is kind of amazing how Atheists tend to have some of the most off the scale interesting near death experiences.

Former Atheist and near death experiencer Howard Storm even asked The Being of Light of near death experience fame about why The Holocaust had been permitted to occur and he got a logical explanation for this injustice.

[Howard Storm] :
"I asked how God could let the Holocaust of World War II happen. We were transported to a railway station as a long train of freight cars was being unloaded of its human cargo. The guards were screaming and beating the people into submission. The people were Jewish men, women, and children. Exhausted from hunger and thirst, they were totally disoriented from the ordeal of being rounded up and sent on a long journey to an unknown destination. They believed that they were going to work camps, and that their submission to the brutality of the guards was the only way to survive.

We went to the area where the selection process was taking place and heard the guards talking about "the Angel Maker." We went to the place the guards were referring to as "the Angel Maker," which was a series of ovens. I saw piles of naked corpses being loaded into the ovens, and I began to cry. Jesus said to me, "These are the people God loves." Then he said, "Look up." Rising out of the smoke of the chimneys, I saw hundreds of people being met by thousands of angels taking them up into the sky. There was great joy in the faces of the people, and there appeared to be no trace of a memory of the horrendous suffering they had just endured. How ironic that the guards sarcastically called the ovens "the Angel Maker."

I asked how God could allow this to happen. They told me that this was not God's will. This was an abomination to God. God wants this never to happen again. This was the sacrifice of an innocent people to whom God had given the law to be an example, a light, to the rest of the world. This Holocaust was breaking God's heart. The anguish that Jesus was suffering at the slaughter of his people was too much for me to bear and I begged that we leave this place. I will never forget this: his anguish at this horror and what it represents. This was one of the low points in human history."

I asked, Why does God let things like this happen? They told me that God was very unhappy with the course of human history and was going to intervene to change the world. God had watched us sink to depths of depravity and cruelty at the very time that he was giving us the instruments to make the world a godlier world. God had intervened in the world many times before, but this time God was going to change the course of human events." (Howard Storm, My Descent Into Death, page 42,43)

Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience - Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife

Near-Death Experiences and the Afterlife profiles Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience . Did you enjoy reading this post, we have more!

near-death.com

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

I think that it is kind of amazing how Atheists tend to have some of the most off the scale interesting near death experiences.

Former Atheist and near death experiencer Howard Storm even asked The Being of Light of near death experience fame about why The Holocaust had been permitted to occur and he got a logical explanation for this injustice.

Former atheist?

Hallucinations are powerful things.

 

[DennisPTate]

Former atheist?

Hallucinations are powerful things.

The massive transformation that a near death experiencer can have who says that he was an "Atheist" prior to his out of the body experience indicates that this person believes that what they saw was not merely a hallucination.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

The massive transformation that a near death experiencer can have who says that he was an "Atheist" prior to his out of the body experience indicates that this person believes that what they saw was not merely a hallucination.

Well, yes, that's kind of what a hallucination is. Until you come to understand that it was just a hallucination.

By say, reading about hypoxic episodes .

 

[ding]

I think that all you have to do is realize that by diligently standing guard over the sanctity of your own mind and not allowing any superstitious gobbledygook to take root and defile your mind you are already living a Kosher life.

Unaware.

And enjoying all of the promised blessings for doing so.


To be aware is to be alive.



Jesus was teaching that it is a religious duty to relegate a certain human archetype to the lowest place in society.

See Gen. 3:14. I'm sure that you can see the wisdom of that. Failing to do so is why the world has gone to shit.

I'm so glad you two are hooking up in an echo chamber of rationalizations. What could possibly go wrong with that.

 

[hadit]

Uh, yeah, believe it or not, scientists thought of that before you did.

They now have it constrained to less than a few hundred million years (and shrinking every day). Which lends extremely strong support to the idea that life has evolved and will evolve countless times, in our universe. They know life formed in that small window, because they know about when the Earth cooled, and they know how old the oldest evidence of life on Earth is.

Which means you believe that a few hundred million years is plenty long enough for proteins to randomly assemble themselves and for a cell to randomly assemble itself and use those proteins. That takes a lot of faith.

In special, stable places in the universe, it may persist for billions of years.

I think what you want is the specious approach you already tried:

By your specious, regressive argument, the probability of any event, ever, can be made to approach zero. Point at any rock on any beach. What are the odds it went west, instead of east? That it welled up from the mantle EXACTLY when and where it did? Etc etc, until you tire out and fall asleep, and the probability of that rock being there is virtually zero.

This is useless, regressive stuff. Yes, the probability of everything being EXACTLY AS IT IS HERE AND NOW is small.

But nowhere near as small as the likelihood of a single DNA molecule randomly assembling itself, much less the trillions needed in order for a wandering cell to see one and realize how valuable it would be.

There is no reason even to delve into that tautology. It gets even smaller, when you realize how different the planet would be, had the Chixiclub meteor NOT hit its gravitational keyhole and had, instead, sailed right on by the earth.

And again, nowhere near as small as the likelihood of a single DNA molecule randomly assembling itself.

 

[Hawkins]

Is it because:

• Lack of belief we are lovable
• Lack of belief we are cared for
• Lack of belief God is an active agent in our lives
• Lack of belief we have a reason for being

What blocks people from believing in God? Why is it so hard to believe?

It's because humans are fooled as told. The god of this world has blinded the minds of men.

The big picutre is, both Eden and Earth (actually hell as well) are sandboxes emulating the final Heaven where the high intelligence angels live and interact with the low intelligence humans. Angels are granted with high intelligence and capability because their very existence is to participate in God's various creations. Eden demonstrate where the issue (angels' influence on humans) is, while Earth represents the solution.

In Eden and on Earth, humans are utterly defeated in terms of intelligence and capability. On earth all mankind are kept captive under Law (Isaiah 14:17). That's why each and every single human needs redemption from God's Grace through Jesus Christ. The self-sacrifice of Jesus changed everything. The defeated humans now have gained a weapon which can be used to destroy the (fallen) angels and break the chains. This weapon is Faith, you shall win when equipped and shall fail when apply your intelligence (which Satan would like you to do). Isaiah 14:17, Earth is for the capable angels to manipulate (the god of this world has blinded the minds of men), your faith is shaken when applying your intelligence.

When applying your intelligence, you would ask "why the suffering"? Isaiah 14:17, Earth is a wilderness (not yet a hell as God still has a job here to save His sheep) as a result of the devil. The devil, by his capability, can shape Earth in such a form to keep you captive bu castomg doubts. That's basically what suffering is. The real purpose of Earth on the other hand is that, it's a platform of assessing human Faith. The more you apply faith you more likely you shall win, the more you apply your intelligence (you will loop yourself into stupid question like why the suffering) you more likely that you'll lose your faith. At the end however, God's sheep (those with precious Faith) shall be saved.

 

[ding]

It's because humans are fooled as told. The god of this world has blinded the minds of men.

The big picutre is, both Eden and Earth (actually hell as well) are sandboxes emulating the final Heaven where the high intelligence angels live and interact with the low intelligence humans. Angels are granted with high intelligence and capability because their very existence is to participate in God's various creations. Eden demonstrate where the issue (angels' influence on humans) is, while Earth represents the solution.

In Eden and on Earth, humans are utterly defeated in terms of intelligence and capability. On earth all mankind are kept captive under Law (Isaiah 14:17). That's why each and every single human needs redemption from God's Grace through Jesus Christ. The self-sacrifice of Jesus changed everything. The defeated humans now have gained a weapon which can be used to destroy the (fallen) angels and break the chains. This weapon is Faith, you shall win when equipped and shall fail when apply your intelligence (which Satan would like you to do). Isaiah 14:17, Earth is for the capable angels to manipulate (the god of this world has blinded the minds of men), your faith is shaken when applying your intelligence.

When applying your intelligence, you would ask "why the suffering"? Isaiah 14:17, Earth is a wilderness (not yet a hell as God still has a job here to save His sheep) as a result of the devil. The devil, by his capability, can shape Earth in such a form to keep you captive bu castomg doubts. That's basically what suffering is. The real purpose of Earth on the other hand is that, it's a platform of assessing human Faith. The more you apply faith you more likely you shall win, the more you apply your intelligence (you will loop yourself into stupid question like why the suffering) you more likely that you'll lose your faith. At the end however, God's sheep (those with precious Faith) shall be saved.

Why can't I have have both intelligence and faith?

 

[Hawkins]

Humans are fooled to the extent beyond imagination.

Science is experiment based. Humans completely lack the ability to go to another space another realm to establish experiments. That is to say, science is incapable of detecting even the simplest existences as long as they don't locate inside our own space/environment. On the other hand, spirituality as an advocate from the very beginning of humanity, is never abouth existences inside our own realm. It's all about existences outside of our realm, which science is completely futile, and completely irrelevant!

You think that science being relevant is exactly the proof that you are fooled as told/propheised.

 

[Hawkins]

Why can't I have have both intelligence and faith?

You apparently missed the point. You intelligence is much lower than that of the angels that you are under their manipulation. Here's the proof!

Science is experiment based. Humans completely lack the ability to go to another space another realm to establish experiments. That is to say, science is incapable of detecting even the simplest existences as long as they don't locate inside our own space/environment. On the other hand, spirituality as an advocate from the very beginning of humanity, is never abouth existences inside our own realm. It's all about existences outside of our realm, which science is completely futile, and completely irrelevant!

You think that science being relevant is exactly the proof that you are fooled as told/propheised.

 

[ding]

You apparently missed the point. You intelligence is much lower than that of the angels that you are under their manipulation. Here's the proof!

Science is experiment based. Humans completely lack the ability to go to another space another realm to establish experiments. That is to say, science is incapable of detecting even the simplest existences as long as they don't locate inside our own space/environment. On the other hand, spirituality as an advocate from the very beginning of humanity, is never abouth existences inside our own realm. It's all about existences outside of our realm, which science is completely futile, and completely irrelevant!

You think that science being relevant is exactly the proof that you are fooled as told/propheised.

I don't believe I did miss your point. I haven't been fooled. I know I am a spiritual being experiencing a material existence. I know my faith is being tested.

 

[hadit]

Why can't I have have both intelligence and faith?

You should have both. I find it interesting that people of faith are considered ignorant when those thus considering themselves live by faith.