Zone1 Why is it so tough to believe in God?

[hobelim]

Yes, personally, I am relieved your god almost certainly does not exist

Almost certainly? Seriously? Not 100% certainly?

Damn.

I'm 100% certain there is no such thing as a trinity that diddled a 14 year old Jewish virgin to become an edible Jewish mangod who was crucified as a "perfect human sacrifice" to himself, derp, so "believers" who love him, pft, and celebrate his torture and death every now and then on Sunday and solemnly eat him, yum, can remain sanctimonious assholes and sin with impunity for life because this substitute counterfeit Jesus created by Rome in 325ce, the Antichrist, paid the penalty for their sins, death, because a trinity loved the Roman world so much?

You really have a doubt?

 

[hobelim]

your faith is shaken when applying your intelligence.

And so you will remain STUCK in a constant state of cognitive dissonance between what you profess to believe by faith and what your rational intelligence knows is impossible to be literally true. Thats why believers make the best marks for con men and politicians. They can't differentiate between the truth and a complete bullshit story.

FYI, The logical conclusion is that being oblivious as a result of a conflict within your mind is not a state of grace.

It is a deliberately and artificially induced unnatural state of mind that resembles a very deep sleep, what the authors of the Bible metaphorically and quite accurately compared to death, the dead in hells keeping.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Which means you believe that a few hundred million years is plenty long enough for proteins to randomly assemble themselves and for a cell to randomly assemble itself and use those proteins. That takes a lot of faith.

It takes exactly zero faith and is 100% based on definitive, objective evidence. Believing it's not possible requires faith and a belief in magic. That's your position.

This dimestore parlor trick isn't going to work on me, sorry.

You: faith, no evidence

Me: Mountains of defintive evidence, evidence based determination

Let's get that straight right now.

I am not interested in your tired rhetorical tricks. Save them for Church, they are worthless, here.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Almost certainly? Seriously? Not 100% certainly?

Well yes, of course. That's the thing about magical hooha:

There cannot ever be evidence for or against, inherently.

 

[hobelim]

Well yes, of course. That's the thing about magical hooha:

There cannot ever be evidence for or against, inherently.

There is plenty of evidence provided by REALITY that precludes the possibility that many things recorded in scripture are literally true. Just like the story of Pinocchio even though many naughty boys grow donkey ears for life.

The fact that it takes 23 chromosomes from a human father for a woman to have conceived and give birth to baby Jesus is a very clear and constant constraint on what the truth must be about the virgin birth story.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Sure there is plenty of evidence provided by REALITY that precludes the possibility that many things recorded in scripture are literally true.

Right, all the magical horseshit.

Like, resurrection. Like virgin birth. Like, well, just about everything that distinguishes the Bible from a factual history book.

 

[hobelim]

Right, all the magical horseshit.

Like, resurrection. Like virgin birth. Like, well, just about everything that distinguishes the Bible from a factual history book.

Right.

So those subjects cannot be literally true but that does no make them untrue if you can grasp the not so complicated metaphors like talking serpents, swine that do not RUMINATE, teeming vermin that go down on all fours, the resurrection, the blind seeing, and every fantastical story intended to educate children about reality.

And a careful reading of the virgin birth story clearly shows that some guy who claimed to be the angel Gabriel told her she was chosen by God to give birth to the messiah and then poof, like magic, she was pregnant.

Any intelligent adult should be able to read between the lines.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Right.

So those subjects cannot be literally true but that does no make them untrue if you can grasp the not so complicated metaphors like talking serpents, swine that do not RUMINATE, teeming vermin that go down on all fours, the resurrection, the virgin birth, and every fantastical story intended to educate children about reality.

Right, so look at them as fairy tales with moral lessons.

I especially like the one about how to correctly beat a slave.

No thanks. I will take my moral cues from elsewhere besides one of the first and worst attempts by illiterate, terrified , superstitious humans to codify morality.

 

[hobelim]

Right, so look at them as fairy tales with moral lessons.

I especially like the one about how to correctly beat a slave.

lol. You do know that much of the Bible was written over thousands of years reflecting the contemporary concerns of times when people were not thinking about morality or ethics but perpetuating and justifying their inhuman cruelty. But you have to keep in mind how much more cruel the other nations were, and remain.

Thats why one must dig intelligently through a lot of crap like that to find what is a treasure of incalculable value. The books of the Bible were redacted for security concerns by the Romans. This should be common knowledge.

Even so they could not redact what went over their superstitious heads, like buried treasure one can walk right over and never find. And even if they built a universal church right over it it would remain hidden, unadulterated.

No thanks. I will take my moral cues from elsewhere

So do I.

 

[Mr Natural]

Either you believe or you don’t.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

You do know that much of the Bible was written over thousands of years reflecting the contemporary concerns of times when people were not thinking about morality or ethics but perpetuating and justifying their inhuman cruelty.

Since I literally just pointed that out... yes, I think i know.

 

[hobelim]

Since I literally just pointed that out... yes, I think i know.

Right.

Even so do you think there is nothing of value to learn from many stories including the fairy tale about Adam and Eve and the talking serpent in the Garden of Eden that still applies to real life that if 'believers' understood would rather have been crucified than to have supported trump, the epitome of that deceptive talking serpent of old?

 

[Quantrill]

No, that's wild overgeneralization. Agnostics are also atheists simply by virtue of not accepting belief in any Gods. You areoversimplifying so you can wrap your mind around it and dismiss countless people you know nothing about with a wave of your hand.

I can definitely accept that many do not want YOUR god, because they, like me, think he is a vile character and would be better forgotten. Yes, personally, I am relieved your god almost certainly does not exist. That is true.

Many of these people remain agnostic and continue to search for a better god than what your book has to offer.

No, that is Scripture, which you avoid presenting. Atheist's are such cowards.

Agnostics are just atheist's. True enough.

I don't dismiss any by the 'wave of my hand'. I do dismiss many by the testimony of Scripture.

That's fine, you don't want my God, the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ. If you want to forget Him, that is fine...forget Him. If you're relieved that my God does not exist, well and good. If you believe it is true that He does not exist, all the better for you.

If my God does not exist, why seek a 'better god'? Oxymoron.

Serve your father, and I will serve my Father. And we both are happy.

Quantrill

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Right.

Even so do you think there is nothing of value to learn from many stories including the fairy tale about Adam and Eve and the talking serpent in the Garden of Eden that still applies to real life that if 'believers' understood would rather have been crucified than to have supported trump, the epitome of that deceptive talking serpent of old?

There is nothing of value i cannot get somewhere else, in both a more intellectually and a more morally refined context.

If every Bible on the planet disappeared tomorrow, it would be an improvement to the planet and our species, both intellectually and morally. Anything of value within the Bible can be found in better places.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

This tack kind of reminds me of the frauds who claimed to like Charlie Kirk because of his message of Christian Faith.

LIARS, every single one of them. Lying through their teeth.

Any message of faith Kirk provided could be found elsewhere, without the foundation of bigotry and white nationalism and aggressive stupidity and ignorance.

The fact is, the bigotry and white nationalism were the ACTUAL features that attracted them to Charlie Kirk. Despite their embarrassing lies to the contrary.

I think we can see a clear analog to this in the American Christians today and their Bible.

 

[BreezeWood]

That's fine, you don't want my God, the God of the Bible, Jesus Christ. If you want to forget Him, that is fine...forget Him.

no one can know the heavens by reading a desert bible - than the tangential reflections from the evil that possesses them. qtll.

 

[Quantrill]

no one can know the heavens by reading a desert bible - than the tangential reflections from the evil that possesses them. qtll.

How do you know?

Quantrill

 

[hadit]

It takes exactly zero faith and is 100% based on definitive, objective evidence. Believing it's not possible requires faith and a belief in magic. That's your position.

Do you take a testing kit to the pharmacy to make sure you're getting what you're supposed to get? If not, you live on faith. Do you first verify that every chair you are about to sit in will support you and not collapse? If not, you live on faith.

This dimestore parlor trick isn't going to work on me, sorry.

No trick, just simple math. You take it on faith that it just happened because you're told it just happened.

You: faith, no evidence

Me: Mountains of defintive evidence, evidence based determination

That violates simple math. You have no answer for how a violent, unstable early planet earth somehow magically (there's your favorite concept right there) there was a little tidepool where nothing changed for millions upon millions of years as the perfect conditions existed for the magical alignment of just the right ingredients, and viola, there it is.

Let's get that straight right now.

Oh, it's straight alright, as I have shown.

I am not interested in your tired rhetorical tricks. Save them for Church, they are worthless, here.

IOW, no rebuttal.

 

[hadit]

This tack kind of reminds me of the frauds who claimed to like Charlie Kirk because of his message of Christian Faith.

LIARS, every single one of them. Lying through their teeth.

Any message of faith Kirk provided could be found elsewhere, without the foundation of bigotry and white nationalism and aggressive stupidity and ignorance.

The fact is, the bigotry and white nationalism were the ACTUAL features that attracted them to Charlie Kirk. Despite their embarrassing lies to the contrary.

I think we can see a clear analog to this in the American Christians today and their Bible.

I keep telling you those foil helmets don't grant you mindreading powers, but here we are...

 

[hobelim]

There is nothing of value i cannot get somewhere else, in both a more intellectually and a more morally refined context.

If every Bible on the planet disappeared tomorrow, it would be an improvement to the planet and our species, both intellectually and morally. Anything of value within the Bible can be found in better places.

Then tell me where else is can I read detailed instructions intended to teach human beings how to communicate and interact with living creatures from a higher sphere of intelligent life that was written thousands of years ago when most people were ignorant knuckle dragging barbarians and contains an intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the human mind, through which everyones experience of life is perceived, a wisdom that far exceeds even modern theories of the mind revealing the cause and simple cure for a wide range of mental illnesses?