Why does belief in God require a religion?

[Meriweather]

I agree...but I do think it is important to attend a church . I am not a big fan of a lot of churches...it usually takes me a while to find a home church...and as soon as I see any politics or nonsense, I look for a new church. Too many churches are nothing more than a modern day bazaar of networking and status building.

Attending church can be compared to attending family gatherings. In the Catholic faith it is usually a central location for everyone of all ministries to gather, whether we are involved with helping unwed mothers, Catholic education and bible study, soup kitchens, grieving, sheltering the homeless, and other activities. You may see this as networking, but it truly helps a lot of people--including the volunteers.

 

[Meriweather]

I have never met a Catholic more interested with their relationship with God as opposed to following the rules of the Catholic Church (or breaking those rules as most Catholics do).

Then you need to meet more Catholics. What rules do you observe us following (or breaking)?

 

[Nutz]

I agree...but I do think it is important to attend a church . I am not a big fan of a lot of churches...it usually takes me a while to find a home church...and as soon as I see any politics or nonsense, I look for a new church. Too many churches are nothing more than a modern day bazaar of networking and status building.

Attending church can be compared to attending family gatherings. In the Catholic faith it is usually a central location for everyone of all ministries to gather, whether we are involved with helping unwed mothers, Catholic education and bible study, soup kitchens, grieving, sheltering the homeless, and other activities. You may see this as networking, but it truly helps a lot of people--including the volunteers.

You misunderstand what I said...what you mention are all positive qualities that I admire. When I say networking and status building, it is directed at those who intermingle faith with personal profit. The salesman, the politician, the go getter who thinks being a deacon is a stepping stone to a partnership. You know...those people who go to church every Sunday, but have no personal relationship with God

 

[Nutz]

I have never met a Catholic more interested with their relationship with God as opposed to following the rules of the Catholic Church (or breaking those rules as most Catholics do).

Then you need to meet more Catholics. What rules do you observe us following (or breaking)?

I grew up Catholic. Stand up, sit down...go to the Catholic picnic to get drunk, fornicate and gamble....if you are a priest, search out little boys to rape.

 

[Meriweather]

You misunderstand what I said...what you mention are all positive qualities that I admire. When I say networking and status building, it is directed at those who intermingle faith with personal profit. The salesman, the politician, the go getter who thinks being a deacon is a stepping stone to a partnership. You know...those people who go to church every Sunday, but have no personal relationship with God

It could be I am just lucky, but in all my years as a Catholic, attending a variety of Catholic churches in several states, I have never met anyone who showed up at worship, retreats, bible study, or other volunteer efforts who tried to mingle personal profit with their worship and volunteer activities. On the other hand, I have seen many businesses happy to contribute to many worthwhile causes.

 

[Nutz]

You misunderstand what I said...what you mention are all positive qualities that I admire. When I say networking and status building, it is directed at those who intermingle faith with personal profit. The salesman, the politician, the go getter who thinks being a deacon is a stepping stone to a partnership. You know...those people who go to church every Sunday, but have no personal relationship with God

It could be I am just lucky, but in all my years as a Catholic, attending a variety of Catholic churches in several states, I have never met anyone who showed up at worship, retreats, bible study, or other volunteer efforts who tried to mingle personal profit with their worship and volunteer activities. On the other hand, I have seen many businesses happy to contribute to many worthwhile causes.

ok...but again, you are defining the devout as opposed to the Sunday only members that simply attend.

 

[Nutz]

You misunderstand what I said...what you mention are all positive qualities that I admire. When I say networking and status building, it is directed at those who intermingle faith with personal profit. The salesman, the politician, the go getter who thinks being a deacon is a stepping stone to a partnership. You know...those people who go to church every Sunday, but have no personal relationship with God

It could be I am just lucky, but in all my years as a Catholic, attending a variety of Catholic churches in several states, I have never met anyone who showed up at worship, retreats, bible study, or other volunteer efforts who tried to mingle personal profit with their worship and volunteer activities. On the other hand, I have seen many businesses happy to contribute to many worthwhile causes.

ok...but again, you are defining the devout as opposed to the Sunday only members that simply attend.

Sorry...meant to edit, but too lazy to go back...it isn't just the Catholics either. Every church, every religion, every sect has the same problems.

 

[Meriweather]

I grew up Catholic. Stand up, sit down...go to the Catholic picnic to get drunk, fornicate and gamble....if you are a priest, search out little boys to rape.

I am glad I never found myself in that parish! Can't recall one drunk at any of our picnics or carnivals.

How tragic that rape occurred in your parish! We didn't have that kind of tragedy--my four brothers were all altar servers. If it helps, I was involved in a parish that quickly became involved in making certain that it never would happen in our parish--or other parishes in the diocese. Priests and altar servers don vestments in separate areas now--and have for decades. What Catholics have done to insure children are always protected is now used as a model for other organizations.

 

[Meriweather]

ok...but again, you are defining the devout as opposed to the Sunday only members that simply attend.

A priest once told us not to consider just the volunteers as devout. He noted (and it has proven true in my life) that sometimes the best Catholic volunteers are the ones who put their faith into practice outside of Church and Church activities. No one knows the efforts and causes "Sunday only" members may be helping in their daily lives.

 

[Nutz]

I grew up Catholic. Stand up, sit down...go to the Catholic picnic to get drunk, fornicate and gamble....if you are a priest, search out little boys to rape.

I am glad I never found myself in that parish! Can't recall one drunk at any of our picnics or carnivals.

How tragic that rape occurred in your parish! We didn't have that kind of tragedy--my four brothers were all altar servers. If it helps, I was involved in a parish that quickly became involved in making certain that it never would happen in our parish--or other parishes in the diocese. Priests and altar servers don vestments in separate areas now--and have for decades. What Catholics have done to insure children are always protected is now used as a model for other organizations.

I have a problem with Catholicism and I don't have a problem with it...if that makes any sense. I do not like the rules, praying to saints, Mary or anything other than Christ. I believe the Catholic Church has perverted the word for power over people; but, I realize there are many devout Catholics that are above the nonsense. I do believe, however, the rash of child molesting preachers is spiritual in itself (which is a whole other topic). I can be harsh on Catholicism, and I don't consider it to be Christianity...I think Catholicism is the basis for a lot of backlash to Christianity.

 

[Nutz]

ok...but again, you are defining the devout as opposed to the Sunday only members that simply attend.

A priest once told us not to consider just the volunteers as devout. He noted (and it has proven true in my life) that sometimes the best Catholic volunteers are the ones who put their faith into practice outside of Church and Church activities. No one knows the efforts and causes "Sunday only" members may be helping in their daily lives.

You had a wise Priest.

 

[MarathonMike]

No my parents and much of my family is Methodist. Religion has nothing to do with faith? Sorry I just don't get it. Take Muslims for instance. Their prayer appears to be regimented strictly by the religion itself don't they have something akin to a bell schedule for prayer?

 

[Nutz]

No my parents and much of my family is Methodist. Religion has nothing to do with faith? Sorry I just don't get it. Take Muslims for instance. Their prayer appears to be regimented strictly by the religion itself don't they have something akin to a bell schedule for prayer?

I pray when I wake up and go to sleep. Is that akin to a bell schedule?

 

[FA_Q2]

My parents were devout Christians and good parents. They took me to Church, baptized me etc but there were too many things about Christianity that didn't make sense to me. I believe there is a God, but more in the vein of Intelligent Design. I see a lot of problems with formalized religion, both past and present and question whether they do more good or cause more harm in the world.

Whatever gives you the idea that faith in God requires religion?

I personally don't but certainly Christians and Muslims believe it, and further they believe that only their specific religion is the "right" one.

Of course they believe they are 'right' or they would not have faith. Essentially everyone believes that.

I don't think many Christians actually believe that church is NECESSARY for faith in God though. I certainly have never met one that claims such a silly thing. Don't know about Muslims but I have a suspicion that it is the same. Most Christians go to church not because it is necessary but because they enjoy gathering with others in their faith and it strengthens that faith.

 

[Nutz]

My parents were devout Christians and good parents. They took me to Church, baptized me etc but there were too many things about Christianity that didn't make sense to me. I believe there is a God, but more in the vein of Intelligent Design. I see a lot of problems with formalized religion, both past and present and question whether they do more good or cause more harm in the world.

Whatever gives you the idea that faith in God requires religion?

I personally don't but certainly Christians and Muslims believe it, and further they believe that only their specific religion is the "right" one.

Of course they believe they are 'right' or they would not have faith. Essentially everyone believes that.

I don't think many Christians actually believe that church is NECESSARY for faith in God though. I certainly have never met one that claims such a silly thing. Don't know about Muslims but I have a suspicion that it is the same. Most Christians go to church not because it is necessary but because they enjoy gathering with others in their faith and it strengthens that faith.

Good answer!

 

[Iceweasel]

My parents were devout Christians and good parents. They took me to Church, baptized me etc but there were too many things about Christianity that didn't make sense to me. I believe there is a God, but more in the vein of Intelligent Design. I see a lot of problems with formalized religion, both past and present and question whether they do more good or cause more harm in the world.

I was a Christian but no longer believe in it. I do believe in God though, too much wouldn't make sense otherwise. I have no other beliefs about him/it though. I choose to not believe things just because I want to.

 

[Iceweasel]

My parents were devout Christians and good parents. They took me to Church, baptized me etc but there were too many things about Christianity that didn't make sense to me. I believe there is a God, but more in the vein of Intelligent Design. I see a lot of problems with formalized religion, both past and present and question whether they do more good or cause more harm in the world.

Whatever gives you the idea that faith in God requires religion?

I personally don't but certainly Christians and Muslims believe it, and further they believe that only their specific religion is the "right" one.

Of course they believe they are 'right' or they would not have faith. Essentially everyone believes that.

I don't think many Christians actually believe that church is NECESSARY for faith in God though. I certainly have never met one that claims such a silly thing. Don't know about Muslims but I have a suspicion that it is the same. Most Christians go to church not because it is necessary but because they enjoy gathering with others in their faith and it strengthens that faith.

Although many churches WILL make you feel like a weak Christian for not attending regularly. I heard the guilt trip preached many many times. Of course it helps the pocketbook to keep them coming in. And they'll make you feel guilty about that too.

 

[Nutz]

My parents were devout Christians and good parents. They took me to Church, baptized me etc but there were too many things about Christianity that didn't make sense to me. I believe there is a God, but more in the vein of Intelligent Design. I see a lot of problems with formalized religion, both past and present and question whether they do more good or cause more harm in the world.

I was a Christian but no longer believe in it. I do believe in God though, too much wouldn't make sense otherwise. I have no other beliefs about him/it though. I choose to not believe things just because I want to.

What does that mean? You know God exists, but you don't trust him/her? Or are you down on religion and it hinders your faith?

 

[FA_Q2]

My parents were devout Christians and good parents. They took me to Church, baptized me etc but there were too many things about Christianity that didn't make sense to me. I believe there is a God, but more in the vein of Intelligent Design. I see a lot of problems with formalized religion, both past and present and question whether they do more good or cause more harm in the world.

Whatever gives you the idea that faith in God requires religion?

I personally don't but certainly Christians and Muslims believe it, and further they believe that only their specific religion is the "right" one.

Of course they believe they are 'right' or they would not have faith. Essentially everyone believes that.

I don't think many Christians actually believe that church is NECESSARY for faith in God though. I certainly have never met one that claims such a silly thing. Don't know about Muslims but I have a suspicion that it is the same. Most Christians go to church not because it is necessary but because they enjoy gathering with others in their faith and it strengthens that faith.

Although many churches WILL make you feel like a weak Christian for not attending regularly. I heard the guilt trip preached many many times. Of course it helps the pocketbook to keep them coming in. And they'll make you feel guilty about that too.

That would not surprise me. The church as an entity requires attendance or it will fade away. There is a clear need to have people attend. I have never heard the guilt trip personally though - I think it depends on the particular church and its 'leader.'


I, personally, found that size was a BIG factor in the church. The larger a church became, the less connected they were with the faith and more resembled a political unit. Some people like churches with thousands of members but I fond those places were pointless. A church with two dozen OTOH usually knew their people well and provided a lot of support.

 

[Meriweather]

I have a problem with Catholicism and I don't have a problem with it...if that makes any sense. I do not like the rules, praying to saints, Mary or anything other than Christ. I believe the Catholic Church has perverted the word for power over people; but, I realize there are many devout Catholics that are above the nonsense. I do believe, however, the rash of child molesting preachers is spiritual in itself (which is a whole other topic). I can be harsh on Catholicism, and I don't consider it to be Christianity...I think Catholicism is the basis for a lot of backlash to Christianity.

1. What rule(s) don't you like? For example, there is no rule that one must pray to Mary or any Saint (or saint). It is common practice to call on Mary and the Saints to join us in community prayers. Is this what you mean? Not a rule, but the practice?

2. Where (specifically) do you see the Church having power over people?

3. Before teaching I was a journalist. I always encourage people to research this topic. First, there should have been zilch sexual abuse in the Catholic Church. None. In the Church itself there was a lesser percentage of child abuse than any other population--something I will get to in a moment. Again, there should not have been "less", there should have been none.

4. The Church was treating known cases according to psychiatric practices of the time. (Send offender to training, reassign.) Priests at the time were saying, "This is not working." Later, of course, the psychiatric community agreed, and said pedophilia isn't something that can be cured with training and moving people on.

5. While I am glad the news media, (for their own purposes) chose priests to make an example of, they were an absolute failure at revealing the story in the other professions close to me. If people were outraged by the number of Catholic priests being trained and relocated, they should have been rioting over the number of teachers and coaches in the public school arena that were being handled the same way. The research is there, but I never have seen the news media break the story on schools and coaches. Of course, no profession is/was without its offenders. Because the news media chose Catholic priests as their target, the Catholic Church has been able to do a tremendous amount to correct the problem and insure it does not happen again.

6. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops are still insisting that a few diocese who are holding out get with the program of making sure vestments are donned in separate areas, that any problems are immediately revealed to the diocese at large, etc. The Catholic precautions are now being used as a model for other organizations. Yes, too little, too late for some--and that continues to be tragic.

7. How do you define Christianity, and how does the Catholic Church fails to meet that definition?