Zone1 Why do you need gods?

[Cardinal Carminative]

It's called general relativity, dummy. Space and time are consequences of matter and energy.

Then you'll have ABSOLUTELY no problem in showing me that from an actual relativity text book. It may very well be true, but I'm not in the mood to trust the word of a man who lies so much on so many other topics.

Thanks. I hope you'll understand (but realize you probably won't)

 

[BackAgain]

Still WAAAAAY the fuck over my head, but here is one piece citing a John Wheeler which may put you in the correct path to your answer:

18th Nov, 2020
Milad Hajebrahimi
Isfahan University of Technology
I am very thankful to those who participated in this discussion.
I realized my mistake in the content of the questions raised in this discussion.
The questions I asked are not scientifically correct, as mentioned in one of the answers.
Finally, in what follows, I will correct questions and provide some answers to them:

Gravity is equivalent to the curvature of spacetime, not matter or energy!
The matter or energy forms the geometry (curvature), which is the same as gravity. According to John Wheeler: "Matter forms geometry (spacetime) and the geometry tell matter how to move (moving along geodesics)."
The effect of energy (equivalent to matter) is to create spacetime and curvature in spacetime. It is natural that matter (energy) and spacetime are not independent of each other: if there is no matter (energy), neither will geometry (spacetime). The existence of spacetime is due to the existence of matter (energy).

Regards
Milad

Hajebrahimi, Milad. (2020). Re: The relationship between energy and the spacetime. Retrieved from: https://www.researchgate.net/post/T...me/5fb4d6a30f2b9f3f176b5bab/citation/download.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Still WAAAAAY the fuck over my head, but here is one piece citing a John Wheeler which may put you in the correct path to your answer:

Hajebrahimi, Milad. (2020). Re: The relationship between energy and the spacetime. Retrieved from: https://www.researchgate.net/post/T...me/5fb4d6a30f2b9f3f176b5bab/citation/download.

This is the discussion forum that ding linked to earlier. It is not a scientific publication...it is a commentary by random folks.

 

[BackAgain]

This is the discussion forum that ding linked to earlier. It is not a scientific publication...it is a commentary by random folks.

Not the point. The point is how and when Wheeler made that observation and drew that conclusion. And of course, is it accurate.

 

[Blues Man]

People of faith believe while our physical bodies are indeed mortal, our spirits are eternal.

Is mankind for companionship? Scripture notes that we are made in the image and likeness of God. The first thing scripture teaches about God is that God is creator. While it may be on a much smaller scale, people are also creators--and we all create for a purpose. For a Supreme Creator to create more creators, I tend to think the purpose is greater than companionship.

Personally I think it's human hubris to claim we are the very image of a god it's just one more illustration of how humans need to pump up their egos. After all no one really knows what any god looks like

IF we were indeed created by a god I think the most pertinent question is what motivated that god to create such a flawed being as a human.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Not the point. The point is how and when Wheeler made that observation and drew that conclusion. And of course, is it accurate.

Can anyone find Wheeler's citation?

 

[BackAgain]

General relativity

General relativity is one of two pillars of modern physics – our working theory of gravity and of the very large, of planets, galaxies and the universe as a whole

www.newscientist.com

It fades out unless you register. I don’t know if it requires $ payment.

 

[ding]

Just show me in a GR text where it says that. Thanks.

You keep saying it like it is obvious, which if it is, it will be explicitly stated in an actual scientific citation.

Thanks.

The part where general relativity makes predictions of spacetime.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

The part where general relativity makes predictions of spacetime.

Show your work.

(I ASSUME you can do that. Being an "engineer" and all you should have NO PROBLEM mustering the equations and the citations!)

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

General relativity

General relativity is one of two pillars of modern physics – our working theory of gravity and of the very large, of planets, galaxies and the universe as a whole

www.newscientist.com

It fades out unless you register. I don’t know if it requires $ payment.

From the article:

Einstein’s general theory of relativity can be summed up in just 12 words: “Space-time tells matter how to move; matter tells space-time how to curve”.


Doesn't say that it creates spacetime.

The rest of the article appears to restate much of what we know about matter curving spacetime in the form of gravity and the existence of "gravity waves".

But I missed the part where it discusses the CREATION of spacetime.


I have ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM with describing how matter and energy affect or interact with spacetime, but I'm still struggling with the original claim that these things CREATE spacetime.

CREATE.

 

[ding]

Show your work.

(I ASSUME you can do that. Being an "engineer" and all you should have NO PROBLEM mustering the equations and the citations!)

You show your work how matter and energy can exist without creating spacetime.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

You show your work how matter and energy can exist without creating spacetime.

I get it. You can't support your claim using anyone else's actual citation.

 

[ding]

Einstein’s general theory of relativity can be summed up in just 12 words: “Space-time tells matter how to move; matter tells space-time how to curve”.

That's not Wheeler's quote. Wheeler's quote is, "Spacetime grips mass, telling it how to move... Mass grips spacetime, telling it how to curve" Physicist John Wheeler

Spacetime is the measure of the expansion of the universe. Without matter and energy there is no universe. There is no expansion of the universe and there is no time. But the key thing is that you have never shown how matter and energy can exist without spacetime. So any matter and energy existing outside of our universe is existing inside of it's own spacetime universe.

 

[ding]

I get it. You can't support your claim using anyone else's actual citation.

My claim is that matter and energy cannot be an eternal source of creating universes because matter and energy cannot exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates its own spacetime.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

My claim is that matter and energy cannot be an eternal source of creating universes because matter and energy cannot exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates its own spacetime.

Cool. It's good to have ideas of your own.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

My claim is that matter and energy cannot be an eternal source of creating universes because matter and energy cannot exist outside of space and time because the existence of matter and energy creates its own spacetime.

Uh huh. Cool cool.

Got it.

Sure.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

That's not Wheeler's quote. Wheeler's quote is, "Spacetime grips mass, telling it how to move... Mass grips spacetime, telling it how to curve" Physicist John Wheeler

Take it up with New Scientist. That was where I got the quote.

And even then this quote doesn't say that matter and energy CREATE spacetime.

They affect spacetime.

Spacetime is the measure of the expansion of the universe.

Now it feels like you are just making stuff up. Citation please.

Without matter and energy there is no universe. There is no expansion of the universe and there is no time. But the key thing is that you have never shown how matter and energy can exist without spacetime. So any matter and energy existing outside of our universe is existing inside of it's own spacetime universe.

I think this is all stuff you just made up in your imagination.

(Ypu know we can tell you are clearly not an actual educated degreed "engineer". An engineer would have had a ton more math and would know how to discuss this using actual scientific terms and support their contentions. A new age guru, however, writes EXACTLY like you do. Meaningless strings of words and concepts you have no way to even marginally understand).

 

[ding]

Take it up with New Scientist. That was where I got the quote.

And even then this quote doesn't say that matter and energy CREATE spacetime.

They affect spacetime.



Now it feels like you are just making stuff up. Citation please.



I think this is all stuff you just made up in your imagination.

(Ypu know we can tell you are clearly not an actual educated degreed "engineer". An engineer would have had a ton more math and would know how to discuss this using actual scientific terms and support their contentions. A new age guru, however, writes EXACTLY like you do. Meaningless strings of words and concepts you have no way to even marginally understand).

That's nice. It's better for you to get it out of your system.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

That's nice. It's better for you to get it out of your system.

Sorry but not going to get "education" out of my system. Sorry if it threatens you.

 

[BothWings]

Incorrect. You said...

Oh, ok....so you said you disagree that Karma ISN'T intelligent. My bad. Don't get angry. We all see how emotional you get over petty misunderstandings here.