Zone1 Why do you need gods?

[BothWings]

Cause and effect makes karma logical and not random.

Randomness and logic are not opposites. "Random logic"" is the basis for modern circuit design. Karma is a vacuum caused by what you are and what you are not. As I said, experiences move into your life to fill and satisfy this vacuum. The mechanism of this has a logic to it, sure...however, you can affect it with human illogic and emotion too.

 

[ding]

Randomness and logic are not opposites. "Random logic"" is the basis for modern circuit design. Karma is a vacuum caused by what you are and what you are not. As I said, experiences move into your life to fill and satisfy this vacuum. The mechanism of this has a logic to it, sure...however, you can affect it with human illogic and emotion too.

Logic and randomness absolutely are diametrically opposed. There is nothing logical about randomness. Randomness isn't going to try to make you complete.

Yes, we are being pruned but not because of randomness but because of logic. Failed behaviors naturally lead to failure and successful behaviors naturally lead to success. That's why people keep repeating lessons until they learn. It's not randomness that teaches them lessons, it's logic which teaches lessons.

 

[ding]

If karma has a preference for an outcome - to complete us - then karma is not random.

Another way of stating karma is that error cannot stand; eventually error fails.

 

[BothWings]

Logic and randomness absolutely are diametrically opposed. There is nothing logical about randomness. Randomness isn't going to try to make you complete.

Yes, we are being pruned but not because of randomness but because of logic. Failed behaviors naturally lead to failure and successful behaviors naturally lead to success. That's why people keep repeating lessons. It's not randomness that teaches them lessons, it's logic which teaches lessons.

Humans are absolutely subject to the randomness of the universe. Theres no escaping that. The randomness of the universe is entirely logical. That's why its that way in the first place.

If karma has a preference for an outcome - to complete us - then karma is not random.

Another way of stating karma is that error cannot stand; eventually error fails.

There you go again, personifying Karma. Karma doesn't think.about you and prefer an.outcome for you. Karma is a vacuum that YOU create with what you are and what you are not. Experiences fill that vacuum to make you complete and add to your awareness by default.

 

[ding]

Humans are absolutely subject to the randomness of the universe. Theres no escaping that. The randomness of the universe is entirely logical. That's why its that way in the first place.

We live in a logical universe governed by rules, laws and information. Rules laws and information are a signs of intelligence. Intentionality and purpose are signs of intelligence. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. The consequence of a logical universe is that every cause has an effect. Which means that everything happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The very nature of our physical laws point to reason and purpose.

There you go again, personifying Karma. Karma doesn't think.about you and prefer an.outcome for you. Karma is a vacuum that YOU create with what you are and what you are not. Experiences fill that vacuum to make you complete you and add to your awareness by default.

You were the one who personified Karma when you said, "That's your karma pulling those things into your life because you have something to learn from them, to make you complete."

 

[ding]

Experiences fill that vacuum to make you complete and add to your awareness by default.

Because the preferred outcome is completeness. Everything is working towards that outcome.

Why? Because it's logical.

 

[BothWings]

We live in a logical universe governed by rules, laws and information. Rules laws and information are a signs of intelligence. Intentionality and purpose are signs of intelligence. The definition of reason is a cause, explanation, or justification for an action or event. The definition of purpose is the reason for which something is done or created or for which something exists. The consequence of a logical universe is that every cause has an effect. Which means that everything happens for a reason and serves a purpose. The very nature of our physical laws point to reason and purpose.

You were the one who personified Karma when you said, "That's your karma pulling those things into your life because you have something to learn from them, to make you complete."

No, I simply described the nature of Karma. Planets pull things into their orbits too. By saying so do I somehow imply that planets think and have a face?? You said that Karma pays us back. It doesn't pay us back it's a natural mechanism. It's another one of those rules of the universe. You also stated that Karma has a "preference for us". Preference is subjective. Karma doesn't choose for us. Karma is what it is, like gravity.

And the universe isn't governed by information. We are. We create it from from what we interpret from it. It can be true or false or some of both.

 

[BothWings]

Because the preferred outcome is completeness. Everything is working towards that outcome.

Why? Because it's logical.

Humans are incapable of recognizing completeness even if they find it. That's like a human saying they "have found and now know Him". That is a very pompous affirmation. When you say so you stop acknowledging your smallness in the universe...or before God... or whatever you want to call it or interpret it as.

As Stephen Hawking once said, "it's not what you don't know that is a problem so much as what you think you know that just ain't so."

That's why so many of these oh so logical approaches to figuring out the universe farewell for so long and then reach sudden dead ends and then require entirely new re-engineering of concept. And trust me it will just keep going round and round and round until we acknowledge that we just never really know.

It's called paradox. Understanding and accepting it is all that is required to continue moving on the path to completion. The universe already does it every day. Ending transcending paradox is the key to eternal growth which is really the state of completion. Whenever we affirm things so absolutely about the universe we stop growing and are forced to rethink what we are and what we are doing more than we really need to think about the universe.

 

[ding]

No, I simply described the nature of Karma. Planets pull things into their orbits too. By saying so do I somehow imply that planets think and have a face?? You said that Karma pays us back. It doesn't pay us back it's a natural mechanism. It's another one of those rules of the universe. You also stated that Karma has a "preference for us". Preference is subjective. Karma doesn't choose for us. Karma is what it is, like gravity.

And the universe isn't governed by information. We are. We create it from from what we interpret from it. It can be true or false or some of both.

The only thing I disagree about is that karma isn't a sign of intelligence. It's foundation is logical; it's predicated on error not standing.

 

[ding]

Humans are incapable of recognizing completeness even if they find it. That's like a human saying they "have found and now know Him". That is a very pompous affirmation. When you say so you stop acknowledging your smallness in the universe...or before God... or whatever you want to call it or interpret it as.

As Stephen Hawking once said, "it's not what you don't know that is a problem so much as what you think you know that just ain't so."

That's why so many of these oh so logical approaches to figuring out the universe farewell for so long and then reach sudden dead ends and then require entirely new re-engineering of concept. And trust me it will just keep going round and round and round until we acknowledge that we just never really know.

It's called paradox. Understanding and accepting it is all that is required to continue moving on the path to completion. The universe already does it every day. Ending transcending paradox is the key to eternal growth which is really the state of completion. Whenever we affirm things so absolutely about the universe we stop growing and are forced to rethink what we are and what we are doing more than we really need to think about the universe.

Some humans.

 

[BreezeWood]

Only in your head.

no - the crime of deception includes all three desert religions ...

christianity, the desert religions are that claim tablets exist from the heavens etched with 10 commandments - bing worships - when no such tablets ever existed.

prove otherwise if not so - or remove them from your phony c bible.

 

[BothWings]

The only thing I disagree about is that karma isn't a sign of intelligence. It's foundation is logical; it's predicated on error not standing.

You're disagreeing about something that was never implied by anyone but you.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

You will find your answer in Einstein's explanation for why matter and energy warp spacetime.

So you can't find it?

Got it.

Let me know if you DO find where Einstein said that.

 

[whutTHEYsay]

TWhy would any religion believe that an all powerful creator would have any need of being worshipped?

Pretty much Ethan Allen’s commentary on the silliness of some of his Christian neighbors and fellow rebels against the the Biblical Representative of God on Earth from England..

With respect to "The Bible" Allen remarks, "every commentary and annotation on the Bible, implicitly declares its fallibility. ...​

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Reason, the Only Oracle of Man: Or, A Compenduous System of Natural Religion : Ethan Allen : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Book digitized by Google from the library of Harvard University and uploaded to the Internet Archive by user tpb.

archive.org

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What an idle phantom it is for mortals to assay to illustrate and explain to mankind, that which God may be supposed to have undertaken to do."​

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Ethan Allen was a freethinker and critic of Christianity. He wrote Reason, the Only Oracle of Man, in which he espoused natural religion and denied the validity of traditional religions, including Christianity. It is said that he stopped his wedding ceremony when the phrase "agreeable to the laws of God" was uttered, in order to clarify that the only god meant was the god of nature, and not the god of any organized religion or any other god. Only after he was reassured on this point would he allow the ceremony to proceed. Ethan Allen​

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

The part that says the gravitational effect between masses results from their warping of spacetime.

No, that's not what you said. You said matter and energy CREATE SPACETIME. So far the only reference you have provided was someone's random comment on a discussion thread on Research Gate and you wave your hands at other videos.

So far you have cited nothing of any authority to support the claim.

Let me know when you get around to supporting your claims.

 

[Blues Man]

Because at best, Gods are very real, at least to those convinced of them, and at the very worst they provide a moral compass to guide human civilization based on centuries of ethical and historical understanding that nothing in nature operates in harmony and balance with the rest of nature without some governing force acting as a restraint against destructive behavior.

And the very proof of that is watching how as God and religion are now pushed by the Atheistocracy farther and farther into the background of society, crime, lasciviousness and debauchery are on the rise.

Morals evolved along with humans. Society is the largest influencer of morals.

Where you see some atheist conspiracy I see people evolving and realizing that gods are not necessary.

 

[Blues Man]

Nor do I need my daughters. They are a blessing.

Not only does God bless us, we bless Him. We are blessings to each other, more than being needful of each other.

So a god decided to bless himself by creating humans?

Not the most altruistic of motivations.

 

[Blues Man]

I speculate that we aren’t even that close to the Creator. I assume that we are more akin to things He would study on a slide under a microscope in a lab if He were so inclined.

Yeah I science project like that ant farm a kid leaves on the window sill and forgets about.

I sometimes wondered if a god was the kid with the magnifying glass torching the ants

 

[Meriweather]

So a god decided to bless himself by creating humans?

Not the most altruistic of motivations.

Sharing one's existence, friendship, and love are not altruistic motivations? I am talking about humans as well as God. By this philosophy, there is no altruism. Anywhere.

 

[Blues Man]

Sharing one's existence, friendship, and love are not altruistic motivations? I am talking about humans as well as God. By this philosophy, there is no altruism. Anywhere.

Again why does an omniscient, omnipotent , immortal being need to create mortal, flawed beings for its companions?

If a god wants friendship and love and a real relationship then that god should create another omniscient, omnipotent immortal being at least then there would be parity. A mere mortal can never have parity with a god.

And even the most altruistic deeds are motivated by something that is of benefit to the doer.