Zone1 Why do you need gods?

[Meriweather]

I hope God allows non-Hebrew scholars into heaven.

Heaven is God's gift to all. I think of it this way: Those of the greatest faith and the best Biblical understanding are about a millimeter in front of those with the least faith and the worst understanding.

Evil cannot exist in heaven anymore than darkness can exist in light. A truly evil/dark person would want nothing to do with heaven or God because it is a place they cannot exist.

I doubt God cares as much as an iota of how much Biblical knowledge a person gains. It is likely He cares a lot more about how we treated the person we intentionally cut off in traffic.

We should ask ourselves: How well are we treating others? That is what matters. Working to decipher and understand the Bible is a mere hobby.

 

[Meriweather]

But you act as if my reading of the Bible cannot POSSIBLY be rational. You think I'm just somehow in here cherry picking to make God look bad.

No-no-no! Recall what I said earlier. I said my own experience of God is what started me on my quest to discover why Old Testament people had such a harsh view of God. I totally understand your conclusions! If I had not held those same conclusions, I certainly would not have spent decades trying to figure out why they presented God as a barbarous being.

I am merely explaining what I learned after years of studying the original language, the original cultures, all the various histories. I studied many, many rabbinical commentaries and did some cursory studies of other religions mentioned in the Bible. And what did I discover? I discovered in the original language and the original cultures God did not come across as harsh, but as good, loving, just, and merciful. English fails us on how it presents God in the Old Testament. That certainly is not your fault. I thought you might be interested in a (relatively) quick dialogue of why so many do not see God as barbarous, despite the English presentation.

 

[Meriweather]

Then explain the GENOCIDES TO ME. Are they real in the BIble? Or are they made up and written by people who wanted to put the blame on God?

Genocides - I don't know. The Bible seems to say so, but then it seems not all were slaughtered. If not genocide, I would say definitely a massacre, so definitely not pretty. Look what is happening in Ukraine. No one today thinks that pretty, so how can we think past massacres were any better.

Not one author is blaming God. What is being presented is God's love and goodness towards the Hebrews, and His justice and mercy towards the enemy who led their own massacres against the Hebrews.

 

[Meriweather]

That sounds like a fun wordgame without real content. Should I read what the words say or just make up what makes me feel good about what I'm reading?

You should study what the words say. I also recommend studying a variety of commentaries if there is no time for an in depth study of the original language, cultures, and history.

 

[Meriweather]

I've studied the Bible and religion quite a bit, my friend. The fact that I am an atheist now is the problem for you. Not that I read the Bible...but that I didn't arrive at the same feelings as you did. That's the threat.

Your being an atheist is no problem for me. I grew up in a family that included atheists. I married an atheist. I hold this belief that atheists (most of them) are very fine people. I have never seen them as a problem and nor are you a problem. We are having a discussion--and it is certainly not in any way threatening, at least not to me. Hopefully, you are not seeing me as a threat!

If we saw everything the same way, we wouldn't be having a discussion! I do hope you are getting some enjoyment from it as I have no wish to be annoying.

 

[Meriweather]

God cannot be fully understood by humans, but the believers understand him sufficiently to know everything they need to know AND they also are blessed with knowledge that those who FAIL to arrive at the same conclusion are, ipso facto, doing everything wrong.

You are not doing anything wrong. 'Knowing' is more or less superfluous. Deeds and actions towards others makes the difference. The atheists in my life are very fine people who truly care for others.

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Why do people have to worship anything?

that's a different question

 

[zaangalewa]

View attachment 670224

What shows this picture? Source please.

...

PS: Got it - it shows the bishops Bornewasser, Sebastian, Gauleiter Bürckel, Reichsinnenminister Frick and Goebbels in 1935 in context of a referendum whether a big part of the diocese of bishop Bornewasser should become a part of Germany again.

The orginal grave of Bürckel showed not any Christian symbol. Reichsinnnenminster Frick was not a Catholic. And Reichspropagandaminister Goebbels - who had murdered in the end even his own children - was one of the most unscrupulous liars and traitors the world ever had seen.

New question: What do you see in this picture?

 

[zaangalewa]

Votto

An information before you say something now Votto - no one during the time of Hitler in Germany - except perhaps he had been totally mentally deranged - doubted that the Catholic church not had been on the side of Hitler. The worst results got the Nazis in Berlin and in the Catholic areas of Germany.

 

[zaangalewa]

Getting upset over what the neighbors are doing is what separates us from the animals and makes us human ...

View attachment 671334

My dog is human! Whooow ...

 

[zaangalewa]

To the theme here: When I see in atheism the spiritual belief in "not-god" then the question here is only "why do we need belief?". And the answer is in this case unbelievable simple: We need belief in all cases when we are not able to know.

 

[Blues Man]

In comfort and strength.

Both of those come from within

 

[Blues Man]

that's a different question

Not If people need gods so they can worship them instead of something else as was stated

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Not If people need gods so they can worship them instead of something else as was stated

it is certainly a different question, one is a question of belief, the other a question of practice due to belief

 

[Blues Man]

it is certainly a different question, one is a question of belief, the other a question of practice due to belief

Those who believe in gods tend to worship to some degree even if it's just the big holidays

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Those who believe in gods tend to worship to some degree even if it's just the big holidays

Yes, they are practicing what they believe...and if they so choose to do so they could forego the practice and yet still believe

 

[ding]

I don't recall the BB theory stating that mass and energy created spacetime. Please show me where that is. Thanks.

In a closed universe the gravitational energy which is always negative exactly compensates the positive energy of matter. So the energy of a closed universe is always zero. So nothing prevents this universe from being spontaneously created. Because the net energy is always zero. The positive energy of matter is balanced by the negative energy of the gravity of that matter which is the space time curvature of that matter.

 

[ding]

Sorry, don't watch other people's videos. If you have a summary, provide it. If you don't care about the point, leave it. Whatever.

I have spent years reading theology and religion.

You wasted your time if you concluded that God is a meanie.

 

[ding]

Why?

Well, God starts off as a fierce partisan supporting a tiny, tiny tribe in the middle of nowhere. He hates exactly what they hate. He even supports them in the slaughter of innocents just to get the land of their parents! God, in the OT, is a theologically problematic concept. So it fascinates me.

But more fascinating still are the BELIEVERS like yourself who can find a way to JUSTIFY even genocide and murder! Not because you like genocide and murder, but because your God did at one time.

God evolved. Thank heavens. Now he's a God of love and peace and loves ALL People, not just a random tribe in the Levant. Now he loves ALL and He would NEVER command a genocide...NOW.

Which is why I asked the other poster if they were a Marcionite. They were the folks who wanted to separate the OT God from the NT God. To try to make a way to have a theologically sound "God" to worship without having to worship a god who demanded slaughter of innocents (murder) in His name.

Cool story.

Unless you are God, that's a judgement, my friend. And your faith, firmly held and honestly practiced, looks down on that.

YOUR GOD TELLS YOU NOT TO DO THAT.

Is your god real? I dunno....I guess I'll have to see how much YOU believe in His word.

Incorrect. It's an observation. No judging of the person necessary.

You don't believe God exists because you believe God is a meanie. (observation)
You believe God is a meanie because you are a bad person. (judgement)

See the difference?

No?

You don't believe God exists because you believe God is a meanie. (observation)
You believe God is a meanie because you are an idiot. (judgement)
You believe God is a meanie because you are reading the bible wrong. (observation)

Now do you understand the difference between an observation and a judgement?

 

[ding]

I don't recall the BB theory stating that mass and energy created spacetime. Please show me where that is. Thanks.

What exactly do you believe creates space time if not the creation of energy and mass? Spacetime is a consequence of the presence of matter and energy.