Why did God create evil?

[Natural Citizen]

So god didn't create everything in the universe, we created some of it? Is that your final answer?

Ding's speaking in terms of Aristotle's laws of physics. Likely a little bit of Heidegger's, too. Seems so, anyway. Philosopher scientists don't generally derive scientific theory from observation of actual things in nature. Which was my initial gripe in the thread. Objectivity is therefore absent from the scientific approach in this regard. Emphasis on the latter, as philosophical musings take the wheel at that point as a trade-off.

 

[Mindful]

Is killing evil?

I've been watching a programme about rivers, which seem to be non stop killing fields.

From kingfishers diving for fish, bats devouring insects at dusk, predatory fish below the surface of the water.......

 

[BreezeWood]

The simple answer is that God didn't create evil.

Everything God created is good.

Evil is not extant. Evil doesn't exist in and of itself.

Evil is the absence of good, just as cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light.

How do you know?

Men know right from wrong and when they violate it, rather than abandoning the concept, they rationalize that they didn't violate it at all. Men do not do evil for the sake of evil. They do evil for the sake of their own good. A bad man has no clue that he is bad. Only a good man knows just how bad he is. It's the dunning effect, so to speak.

The reality is that good and evil are human constructs, but the underlying values that define them are universal. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. It isn't surprising that relationships or societies which behave with virtue like honesty, humility, charity, thankfulness, courage, integrity, etc, have order and harmony. Just as it isn't surprising that societies or relationships which practice behaviors devoid of virtue like dishonesty, arrogance, selfishness, greed, thanklessness, cowardice, etc are disordered and chaotic. So while men think they are behaving with virtue, it is their behaviors and outcomes that tell the real story. But the surprising thing is that everyone believes they are good. No one will acknowledge that they are bad. No one says, the hell with your universal code of common decency. They all argue that they are being decent and good.

If God had made evil then we would see evil being done for the sake of evil. This we do not see.

Well, the problem here is the "evil" under the eyes of God is actually what humans have decided is evil.

For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

.

For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else ...

there is hope afterall - for a second chance ... good luck.

the physiology disperses when the spirit is removed, hopefully the spirit can survive to receive its metaphysical judgement - nothing merely about it.

 

[sparky]

God didn't create evil , we are

stop trying to blame , take some personal responsibility for yourself <snowflake>

you're evil, i'm evil


~S~

So god didn't create everything in the universe, we created some of it? Is that your final answer?

Not that black / white Taz, but if you'd like to debate free will ,have at it

~S~

 

[Taz]

God didn't create evil , we are

stop trying to blame , take some personal responsibility for yourself <snowflake>

you're evil, i'm evil


~S~

So god didn't create everything in the universe, we created some of it? Is that your final answer?

Not that black / white Taz, but if you'd like to debate free will ,have at it

~S~

To give us free will, god had to create evil.

 

[sparky]

more God had to offer a choice Taz

~S~

 

[onefour1]

When God creates a law by commandment and tells us that we should not murder, steal, commit adultery, etc, was the establishment of this law evil? The only reason God would give us these laws is because we have free will and are capable of choosing the opposite. When a being is given free will to choose, then choices have their opposites. When we are told what we ought not do, the possibility exists that we can do that which is the opposite given our free will. Was it evil of God to give us free will? Was it evil of God to point out what is the right thing to do with our free will? NO! But there is opposition in all things when one has the ability to choose his own actions. True happiness cannot be had without free will. Without rules of ethical conduct, true happiness also cannot be had. God is the source of all that is good. But opposition exists in all things to those who have been given the gift of free will.

Free will implies that we have the power to overcome evil by making the right choices. The only other thing that is needed for man to succeed is the forgiveness of sins as we all fall short at one time or another. This too God has provided through his Only Begotten Son in the Flesh. Thus it behooves us to take heed to the teaching of Jesus, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.".

 

[sparky]

 

[frigidweirdo]

The simple answer is that God didn't create evil.

Everything God created is good.

Evil is not extant. Evil doesn't exist in and of itself.

Evil is the absence of good, just as cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light.

How do you know?

Men know right from wrong and when they violate it, rather than abandoning the concept, they rationalize that they didn't violate it at all. Men do not do evil for the sake of evil. They do evil for the sake of their own good. A bad man has no clue that he is bad. Only a good man knows just how bad he is. It's the dunning effect, so to speak.

The reality is that good and evil are human constructs, but the underlying values that define them are universal. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. It isn't surprising that relationships or societies which behave with virtue like honesty, humility, charity, thankfulness, courage, integrity, etc, have order and harmony. Just as it isn't surprising that societies or relationships which practice behaviors devoid of virtue like dishonesty, arrogance, selfishness, greed, thanklessness, cowardice, etc are disordered and chaotic. So while men think they are behaving with virtue, it is their behaviors and outcomes that tell the real story. But the surprising thing is that everyone believes they are good. No one will acknowledge that they are bad. No one says, the hell with your universal code of common decency. They all argue that they are being decent and good.

If God had made evil then we would see evil being done for the sake of evil. This we do not see.

Well, the problem here is the "evil" under the eyes of God is actually what humans have decided is evil.

For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

.

For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else ...

there is hope afterall - for a second chance ... good luck.

the physiology disperses when the spirit is removed, hopefully the spirit can survive to receive its metaphysical judgement - nothing merely about it.

Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit. The spirit is merely the human demand for something to ignore reality.

 

[BreezeWood]

The simple answer is that God didn't create evil.

Everything God created is good.

Evil is not extant. Evil doesn't exist in and of itself.

Evil is the absence of good, just as cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light.

How do you know?

Men know right from wrong and when they violate it, rather than abandoning the concept, they rationalize that they didn't violate it at all. Men do not do evil for the sake of evil. They do evil for the sake of their own good. A bad man has no clue that he is bad. Only a good man knows just how bad he is. It's the dunning effect, so to speak.

The reality is that good and evil are human constructs, but the underlying values that define them are universal. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. It isn't surprising that relationships or societies which behave with virtue like honesty, humility, charity, thankfulness, courage, integrity, etc, have order and harmony. Just as it isn't surprising that societies or relationships which practice behaviors devoid of virtue like dishonesty, arrogance, selfishness, greed, thanklessness, cowardice, etc are disordered and chaotic. So while men think they are behaving with virtue, it is their behaviors and outcomes that tell the real story. But the surprising thing is that everyone believes they are good. No one will acknowledge that they are bad. No one says, the hell with your universal code of common decency. They all argue that they are being decent and good.

If God had made evil then we would see evil being done for the sake of evil. This we do not see.

Well, the problem here is the "evil" under the eyes of God is actually what humans have decided is evil.

For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

.
"frigidweirdo, post: 20823531, member: 47831"]For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else ...

there is hope afterall - for a second chance ... good luck.

the physiology disperses when the spirit is removed, hopefully the spirit can survive to receive its metaphysical judgement - nothing merely about it.

[/QUOTE]
.

"frigidweirdo: Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit. The spirit is merely the human demand for something to ignore reality.

Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit ...

living beings are not prototype copies from parent to offspring - no two blades of grass from 200 million years ago and for all eternity will ever be the same is proof of a spiritual identity. the will to live for some could be made possible to separate itself and continue to exist after their physiology expires would seem an evolutionary goal capable of realizing if not in fact what happens under the proper conditions. living the good life might just have an added bonus ...

 

[frigidweirdo]

How do you know?

Men know right from wrong and when they violate it, rather than abandoning the concept, they rationalize that they didn't violate it at all. Men do not do evil for the sake of evil. They do evil for the sake of their own good. A bad man has no clue that he is bad. Only a good man knows just how bad he is. It's the dunning effect, so to speak.

The reality is that good and evil are human constructs, but the underlying values that define them are universal. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. It isn't surprising that relationships or societies which behave with virtue like honesty, humility, charity, thankfulness, courage, integrity, etc, have order and harmony. Just as it isn't surprising that societies or relationships which practice behaviors devoid of virtue like dishonesty, arrogance, selfishness, greed, thanklessness, cowardice, etc are disordered and chaotic. So while men think they are behaving with virtue, it is their behaviors and outcomes that tell the real story. But the surprising thing is that everyone believes they are good. No one will acknowledge that they are bad. No one says, the hell with your universal code of common decency. They all argue that they are being decent and good.

If God had made evil then we would see evil being done for the sake of evil. This we do not see.

Well, the problem here is the "evil" under the eyes of God is actually what humans have decided is evil.

For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

.
"frigidweirdo, post: 20823531, member: 47831"]For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else ...

there is hope afterall - for a second chance ... good luck.

the physiology disperses when the spirit is removed, hopefully the spirit can survive to receive its metaphysical judgement - nothing merely about it.

.

"frigidweirdo: Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit. The spirit is merely the human demand for something to ignore reality.

Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit ...

living beings are not prototype copies from parent to offspring - no two blades of grass from 200 million years ago and for all eternity will ever be the same is proof of a spiritual identity. the will to live for some could be made possible to separate itself and continue to exist after their physiology expires would seem an evolutionary goal capable of realizing if not in fact what happens under the proper conditions. living the good life might just have an added bonus ...[/QUOTE]

Do you have a point to make?

 

[BreezeWood]

Men know right from wrong and when they violate it, rather than abandoning the concept, they rationalize that they didn't violate it at all. Men do not do evil for the sake of evil. They do evil for the sake of their own good. A bad man has no clue that he is bad. Only a good man knows just how bad he is. It's the dunning effect, so to speak.

The reality is that good and evil are human constructs, but the underlying values that define them are universal. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. It isn't surprising that relationships or societies which behave with virtue like honesty, humility, charity, thankfulness, courage, integrity, etc, have order and harmony. Just as it isn't surprising that societies or relationships which practice behaviors devoid of virtue like dishonesty, arrogance, selfishness, greed, thanklessness, cowardice, etc are disordered and chaotic. So while men think they are behaving with virtue, it is their behaviors and outcomes that tell the real story. But the surprising thing is that everyone believes they are good. No one will acknowledge that they are bad. No one says, the hell with your universal code of common decency. They all argue that they are being decent and good.

If God had made evil then we would see evil being done for the sake of evil. This we do not see.

Well, the problem here is the "evil" under the eyes of God is actually what humans have decided is evil.

For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

.
"frigidweirdo, post: 20823531, member: 47831"]For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else ...

there is hope afterall - for a second chance ... good luck.

the physiology disperses when the spirit is removed, hopefully the spirit can survive to receive its metaphysical judgement - nothing merely about it.

.

"frigidweirdo: Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit. The spirit is merely the human demand for something to ignore reality.

Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit ...

living beings are not prototype copies from parent to offspring - no two blades of grass from 200 million years ago and for all eternity will ever be the same is proof of a spiritual identity. the will to live for some could be made possible to separate itself and continue to exist after their physiology expires would seem an evolutionary goal capable of realizing if not in fact what happens under the proper conditions. living the good life might just have an added bonus ...

.

Do you have a point to make?

it's in the pudding ... living the good life might just have an added bonus.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I never understood that phrase about the pudding.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Well, the problem here is the "evil" under the eyes of God is actually what humans have decided is evil.

For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

.
"frigidweirdo, post: 20823531, member: 47831"]For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else ...

there is hope afterall - for a second chance ... good luck.

the physiology disperses when the spirit is removed, hopefully the spirit can survive to receive its metaphysical judgement - nothing merely about it.

.

"frigidweirdo: Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit. The spirit is merely the human demand for something to ignore reality.

Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit ...

living beings are not prototype copies from parent to offspring - no two blades of grass from 200 million years ago and for all eternity will ever be the same is proof of a spiritual identity. the will to live for some could be made possible to separate itself and continue to exist after their physiology expires would seem an evolutionary goal capable of realizing if not in fact what happens under the proper conditions. living the good life might just have an added bonus ...

.

Do you have a point to make?

it's in the pudding ... living the good life might just have an added bonus.

Might.

That's all you have. It might do something good at the end.

But I guess that's the point. Tell people there MIGHT be something good in the afterlife and they MIGHT just behave themselves and be easily malleable in this life.

 

[Uncensored2008]

The simple answer is that God didn't create evil.

Everything God created is good.

Evil is not extant. Evil doesn't exist in and of itself.

Evil is the absence of good, just as cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light.

So "evil" then is democrats.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
"frigidweirdo, post: 20823531, member: 47831"]For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else ...

there is hope afterall - for a second chance ... good luck.

the physiology disperses when the spirit is removed, hopefully the spirit can survive to receive its metaphysical judgement - nothing merely about it.

.

"frigidweirdo: Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit. The spirit is merely the human demand for something to ignore reality.

Or maybe there is no such thing as a spirit ...

living beings are not prototype copies from parent to offspring - no two blades of grass from 200 million years ago and for all eternity will ever be the same is proof of a spiritual identity. the will to live for some could be made possible to separate itself and continue to exist after their physiology expires would seem an evolutionary goal capable of realizing if not in fact what happens under the proper conditions. living the good life might just have an added bonus ...

.

Do you have a point to make?

it's in the pudding ... living the good life might just have an added bonus.

Might.

That's all you have. It might do something good at the end.

But I guess that's the point. Tell people there MIGHT be something good in the afterlife and they MIGHT just behave themselves and be easily malleable in this life.

But I guess that's the point. Tell people there MIGHT be something good in the afterlife and they MIGHT just behave themselves and be easily malleable in this life.

no one can do it for you ...

the pudding was made simple: The Triumph of Good vs Evil - The Apex of Knowledge, there are ways to insure an outcome for those willing or able to accomplish the required goals for life as a free spirit in the Everlasting.

 

[task0778]

Some people might think that God did not create evil. He created mankind and mankind creates evil, as a manifestation of their free will.

 

[ding]

So then you don't believe that we live in a logical universe? You believe that reality can be anything we want it to be?

Do you know what the difference is between subjective and objective?

Your two statements are mutually exclusive.

A logical or illogical universe has nothing to do with a personal belief in reality.

It has to do with reality. In reality there are reasons for why things are the way they are. Things just don't occur randomly. We live in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. For any given event, one can go back and study the steps and understand the root cause for every outcomes.

Sorry, there is not grand hand of a deity guiding everything in the universe.

There is just turbulent correlation.

I agree. We are effectively on our own. But there is absolutely an intelligence that is responsible for creating existence. There is only one solution to the first cause conundrum. Something which is eternal and unchanging. This solution requires it to be no thing as in no material thing. The closest thing we can say is intelligence.

So this grand deity is not pulling strings are doing magical things, but is logical and has created laws of nature which are logical and serve as a self correcting feature. We are all being pruned whether we like it or not.

How old do you believe the earth is?

4 billion years or so. The universe was created 14 billion years ago.

 

[ding]

Well, the problem here is the "evil" under the eyes of God is actually what humans have decided is evil.

Which is based upon a moral law which transcends man. There is a universal code of moral decency that we did not put there and cannot get rid of. We know right from wrong, even though we don't always follow it and rationalize that we did not violate it. We let the cat out of the bag that we believe in a moral law every time we argue that something done to us was not fair. If there was no moral law we shouldn't even have a concept of right and wrong.

This universal code leads to peace and harmony in relationships and societies. It is this outcome which tells us that it cannot be just anything man wants it to be. Not all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. This means that reality decides what is right and wrong, not man.

 

[ding]

So god didn't create everything in the universe, we created some of it? Is that your final answer?

Ding's speaking in terms of Aristotle's laws of physics. Likely a little bit of Heidegger's, too. Seems so, anyway. Philosopher scientists don't generally derive scientific theory from observation of actual things in nature. Which was my initial gripe in the thread. Objectivity is therefore absent from the scientific approach in this regard. Emphasis on the latter, as philosophical musings take the wheel at that point as a trade-off.

No. I am speaking in terms of modern physics. Inflation theory, 1st law of thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, 2nd law of thermodynamics, Friedman's solutions to Einstein's field equations, etc.