Why did God create evil?

[ding]

Perceptions are ones realities. The world only exists through the eyes of the observer.

So then you don't believe that we live in a logical universe?

No. That is not what I “believe”. However spamming additional questions, doesn’t settle those that have been asked prior...

The questions are meant to show the incongruity of believing that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. They don't. There are literally certain behaviors which lead to functional advantages and certain behaviors which lead to dysfunction. These are not perceptions, these are realities. People can pretend that things aren't their fault, but when you practice dysfunctional behaviors, you will end up with dysfunctional results.

At one time homosexuality was considered dysfunctional behavior, clearly the perception was incorrect.

Only to people who go along with what society says is right or wrong. Not all of us look to society as our moral compass.

Everyone believes in a universal concept of fairness. A concept they did not put there and can't seem to get rid of.

 

[ding]

So then you don't believe that we live in a logical universe?

No. That is not what I “believe”. However spamming additional questions, doesn’t settle those that have been asked prior...

The questions are meant to show the incongruity of believing that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. They don't. There are literally certain behaviors which lead to functional advantages and certain behaviors which lead to dysfunction. These are not perceptions, these are realities. People can pretend that things aren't their fault, but when you practice dysfunctional behaviors, you will end up with dysfunctional results.

Who stated such a belief?

You did when you effectively argued against reality by arguing for perception of reality.

No. I didn’t...

You did if you believe in perception of reality rather than reality itself. Just because someone thinks something they did wasn't their fault (their perception) doesn't mean it wasn't their fault in reality. People make all kinds of bullshit excuses to rationalize their behaviors, but the consequences they suffer tell us the truth.

 

[otto105]

Perceptions are ones realities. The world only exists through the eyes of the observer.

So then you don't believe that we live in a logical universe? You believe that reality can be anything we want it to be?

Do you know what the difference is between subjective and objective?

Your two statements are mutually exclusive.

A logical or illogical universe has nothing to do with a personal belief in reality.

It has to do with reality. In reality there are reasons for why things are the way they are. Things just don't occur randomly. We live in a universe where there has never been an uncaused event. For any given event, one can go back and study the steps and understand the root cause for every outcomes.

Sorry, there is not grand hand of a deity guiding everything in the universe.

There is just turbulent correlation.

I agree. We are effectively on our own. But there is absolutely an intelligence that is responsible for creating existence. There is only one solution to the first cause conundrum. Something which is eternal and unchanging. This solution requires it to be no thing as in no material thing. The closest thing we can say is intelligence.

So this grand deity is not pulling strings are doing magical things, but is logical and has created laws of nature which are logical and serve as a self correcting feature. We are all being pruned whether we like it or not.

How old do you believe the earth is?

 

[buttercup]

So then you don't believe that we live in a logical universe?

No. That is not what I “believe”. However spamming additional questions, doesn’t settle those that have been asked prior...

The questions are meant to show the incongruity of believing that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. They don't. There are literally certain behaviors which lead to functional advantages and certain behaviors which lead to dysfunction. These are not perceptions, these are realities. People can pretend that things aren't their fault, but when you practice dysfunctional behaviors, you will end up with dysfunctional results.

At one time homosexuality was considered dysfunctional behavior, clearly the perception was incorrect.

Only to people who go along with what society says is right or wrong. Not all of us look to society as our moral compass.

Everyone believes in a universal concept of fairness. A concept they did not put there and can't seem to get rid of.

I wasn't arguing otherwise. I was responding to otto's comment about the perception of homosexuality. Do you agree with him on that?

 

[Vastator]

No. That is not what I “believe”. However spamming additional questions, doesn’t settle those that have been asked prior...

The questions are meant to show the incongruity of believing that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. They don't. There are literally certain behaviors which lead to functional advantages and certain behaviors which lead to dysfunction. These are not perceptions, these are realities. People can pretend that things aren't their fault, but when you practice dysfunctional behaviors, you will end up with dysfunctional results.

Who stated such a belief?

You did when you effectively argued against reality by arguing for perception of reality.

No. I didn’t...

You did if you believe in perception of reality rather than reality itself. Just because someone thinks something they did wasn't their fault (their perception) doesn't mean it wasn't their fault in reality. People make all kinds of bullshit excuses to rationalize their behaviors, but the consequences they suffer tell us the truth.

You added the “instead” part. Nothing states that the two are mutually exclusive....

 

[ding]

The simple answer is that God didn't create evil.

Everything God created is good.

Evil is not extant. Evil doesn't exist in and of itself.

Evil is the absence of good, just as cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light.

How do you know?

Men know right from wrong and when they violate it, rather than abandoning the concept, they rationalize that they didn't violate it at all. Men do not do evil for the sake of evil. They do evil for the sake of their own good. A bad man has no clue that he is bad. Only a good man knows just how bad he is. It's the dunning effect, so to speak.

The reality is that good and evil are human constructs, but the underlying values that define them are universal. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. It isn't surprising that relationships or societies which behave with virtue like honesty, humility, charity, thankfulness, courage, integrity, etc, have order and harmony. Just as it isn't surprising that societies or relationships which practice behaviors devoid of virtue like dishonesty, arrogance, selfishness, greed, thanklessness, cowardice, etc are disordered and chaotic. So while men think they are behaving with virtue, it is their behaviors and outcomes that tell the real story. But the surprising thing is that everyone believes they are good. No one will acknowledge that they are bad. No one says, the hell with your universal code of common decency. They all argue that they are being decent and good.

If God had made evil then we would see evil being done for the sake of evil. This we do not see.

 

[ding]

The questions are meant to show the incongruity of believing that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. They don't. There are literally certain behaviors which lead to functional advantages and certain behaviors which lead to dysfunction. These are not perceptions, these are realities. People can pretend that things aren't their fault, but when you practice dysfunctional behaviors, you will end up with dysfunctional results.

Who stated such a belief?

You did when you effectively argued against reality by arguing for perception of reality.

No. I didn’t...

You did if you believe in perception of reality rather than reality itself. Just because someone thinks something they did wasn't their fault (their perception) doesn't mean it wasn't their fault in reality. People make all kinds of bullshit excuses to rationalize their behaviors, but the consequences they suffer tell us the truth.

You added the “instead” part. Nothing states that the two are mutually exclusive....

Let's try it this way.

Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes?

If not, why is that?

 

[ding]

No. That is not what I “believe”. However spamming additional questions, doesn’t settle those that have been asked prior...

The questions are meant to show the incongruity of believing that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes. They don't. There are literally certain behaviors which lead to functional advantages and certain behaviors which lead to dysfunction. These are not perceptions, these are realities. People can pretend that things aren't their fault, but when you practice dysfunctional behaviors, you will end up with dysfunctional results.

At one time homosexuality was considered dysfunctional behavior, clearly the perception was incorrect.

Only to people who go along with what society says is right or wrong. Not all of us look to society as our moral compass.

Everyone believes in a universal concept of fairness. A concept they did not put there and can't seem to get rid of.

I wasn't arguing otherwise. I was responding to otto's comment about the perception of homosexuality. Do you agree with him on that?

I know you weren't. I was adding to it. To answer your question, I believe it depends. It should be discussed in another thread as my answer is rather complicated.

 

[Vastator]

Who stated such a belief?

You did when you effectively argued against reality by arguing for perception of reality.

No. I didn’t...

You did if you believe in perception of reality rather than reality itself. Just because someone thinks something they did wasn't their fault (their perception) doesn't mean it wasn't their fault in reality. People make all kinds of bullshit excuses to rationalize their behaviors, but the consequences they suffer tell us the truth.

You added the “instead” part. Nothing states that the two are mutually exclusive....

Let's try it this way.

Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes?

If not, why is that?

Two identical behaviors is an impossibility. And "equal" exists only in the man made disciplines of mathematics...

 

[Vandalshandle]

Man created evil, since there is no god.

 

[ding]

You did when you effectively argued against reality by arguing for perception of reality.

No. I didn’t...

You did if you believe in perception of reality rather than reality itself. Just because someone thinks something they did wasn't their fault (their perception) doesn't mean it wasn't their fault in reality. People make all kinds of bullshit excuses to rationalize their behaviors, but the consequences they suffer tell us the truth.

You added the “instead” part. Nothing states that the two are mutually exclusive....

Let's try it this way.

Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes?

If not, why is that?

Two identical behaviors is an impossibility. And "equal" exists only in the man made disciplines of mathematics...

So you are punting?

In the context of this discussion we aren't talking about two identical behaviors but two diametrically opposed behaviors. Equal outcomes aren't very likely for two diametrically opposed behaviors, lol.

 

[Vastator]

No. I didn’t...

You did if you believe in perception of reality rather than reality itself. Just because someone thinks something they did wasn't their fault (their perception) doesn't mean it wasn't their fault in reality. People make all kinds of bullshit excuses to rationalize their behaviors, but the consequences they suffer tell us the truth.

You added the “instead” part. Nothing states that the two are mutually exclusive....

Let's try it this way.

Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes?

If not, why is that?

Two identical behaviors is an impossibility. And "equal" exists only in the man made disciplines of mathematics...

So you are punting?

In the context of this discussion we aren't talking about two identical behaviors but two diametrically opposed behaviors. Equal outcomes aren't very likely for two diametrically opposed behaviors, lol.

Equal outcomes aren't a possibility either; as two "equal", or identical behaviors is an impossibility. Mathematics is the only "place" where equalty exists.

 

[ding]

You did if you believe in perception of reality rather than reality itself. Just because someone thinks something they did wasn't their fault (their perception) doesn't mean it wasn't their fault in reality. People make all kinds of bullshit excuses to rationalize their behaviors, but the consequences they suffer tell us the truth.

You added the “instead” part. Nothing states that the two are mutually exclusive....

Let's try it this way.

Do you believe that all behaviors lead to equal outcomes?

If not, why is that?

Two identical behaviors is an impossibility. And "equal" exists only in the man made disciplines of mathematics...

So you are punting?

In the context of this discussion we aren't talking about two identical behaviors but two diametrically opposed behaviors. Equal outcomes aren't very likely for two diametrically opposed behaviors, lol.

Equal outcomes aren't a possibility either; as two "equal", or identical behaviors is an impossibility. Mathematics is the only place where equalty exists.

That's sort of the point when considering two diametrically opposed behaviors.

I'm going to mark you down as promoting that it's OK to behave any way you want because it really doesn't make a difference.

Darwin is rolling over in his grave.

 

[bullwinkle]

God didn't "create" evil per se. He was probably mildly amused when one of his angels (Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, etc) through his own pride decided to lead the revolt of one third of the angels against Him. Of course, angels are imperfect creatures which were not created by God in His own image, as we are.

We are infinitely more special than the angels, as God created us in His own image. The angels are merely messengers which have been around ever since the creation. They are not afforded the same forgiveness that we are.

It was in the Garden of Eden that Satan temped Eve and subsequently Adam, into going against God's wishes. For that, there will never be forgiveness, nor will there ever be forgiveness for the one third of those angels who followed Satan.

But God loved us so much that he didn't want us to perish, therefore He gave us ten commandments to follow, in order to remain in His favor. Unfortunately, many people failed to observe them. So at some point, God brought upon the world the Great Flood.

Even after the flood, silly humans refused to observe God's laws and rules as written in the Old testament. In order to give His creation a way out of sin and eternal damnation, He sent His only begotten son to die upon the cross, thereby having all of the world's sin placed upon Him.

Whether God allowed the temptation in the Garden or he lost control of his angels could be debated by the non-believers. I prefer to believe that He planned all this from the start, to impress upon us what a mighty Creator He is, because the idea of God being imperfect or out of control is kinda silly.

Jgalt, there are a couple of points I would question you upon, or discuss at least. First is: What do you mean by 'created in God's image'? Because if that means we look like God, it strikes me as foolish. We look as we do because of the environment we live in. We have legs to stand...does God need that? We have eyes that see 20/20 at best, does God need eyes like ours? We have lungs that convert natural gasses into vital delivery of oxygen into our cells, does God need oxygen to survive? We are built as we are to survive on this planet only. If we leave it, we have to take our atmosphere with us. God abides in the universe, he doesn't look like us. He doesn't need the Earthly gifts we need to survive. The only way we are like him is in the freedom he built into us to make choices, as you have observed. But when we see him as an old guy (ancient of days) with a buff bod sitting among columns and clouds, that's for us and only so we can relate. IMHO

Secondly, the flood was long before Moses went up the mountain. The Bible timeline is hard to follow. Sometimes it is parallel and sometimes there are great gaps. But the flood was ancient when Moses floated down the river in a basket.

One more observation, a snarky one for sure, but...since the 90s I have always thought that the voice the subtle serpent used to confuse and tempt Eve was what we now hear issuing forth from the mouth of Orrin Hatch. That smarmy piety has me gnashing my teeth when he speaks.

 

[sparky]

God didn't create evil , we are

stop trying to blame , take some personal responsibility for yourself <snowflake>

you're evil, i'm evil


~S~

 

[Auld Phart]

wrong--- god created everything
but there is no god
define evil
....murder?/rape? genocide?---this is what humans do---god created humans
people NATURALLY get pissed off and NATURALLY commit violence/murder/hate/rape/etc

define evil

d'evil

 

[BreezeWood]

The simple answer is that God didn't create evil.

Everything God created is good.

Evil is not extant. Evil doesn't exist in and of itself.

Evil is the absence of good, just as cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light.

.
the Almighty conquered evil and requires the same for any spirit that sets itself free to have done the same for acceptance to the Everlasting or to perish in failure.

 

[frigidweirdo]

The simple answer is that God didn't create evil.

Everything God created is good.

Evil is not extant. Evil doesn't exist in and of itself.

Evil is the absence of good, just as cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light.

How do you know?

Men know right from wrong and when they violate it, rather than abandoning the concept, they rationalize that they didn't violate it at all. Men do not do evil for the sake of evil. They do evil for the sake of their own good. A bad man has no clue that he is bad. Only a good man knows just how bad he is. It's the dunning effect, so to speak.

The reality is that good and evil are human constructs, but the underlying values that define them are universal. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. It isn't surprising that relationships or societies which behave with virtue like honesty, humility, charity, thankfulness, courage, integrity, etc, have order and harmony. Just as it isn't surprising that societies or relationships which practice behaviors devoid of virtue like dishonesty, arrogance, selfishness, greed, thanklessness, cowardice, etc are disordered and chaotic. So while men think they are behaving with virtue, it is their behaviors and outcomes that tell the real story. But the surprising thing is that everyone believes they are good. No one will acknowledge that they are bad. No one says, the hell with your universal code of common decency. They all argue that they are being decent and good.

If God had made evil then we would see evil being done for the sake of evil. This we do not see.

Well, the problem here is the "evil" under the eyes of God is actually what humans have decided is evil.

For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

 

[ding]

The simple answer is that God didn't create evil.

Everything God created is good.

Evil is not extant. Evil doesn't exist in and of itself.

Evil is the absence of good, just as cold is the absence of heat, and darkness is the absence of light.

How do you know?

Men know right from wrong and when they violate it, rather than abandoning the concept, they rationalize that they didn't violate it at all. Men do not do evil for the sake of evil. They do evil for the sake of their own good. A bad man has no clue that he is bad. Only a good man knows just how bad he is. It's the dunning effect, so to speak.

The reality is that good and evil are human constructs, but the underlying values that define them are universal. Virtue is the greatest organizing principle. It isn't surprising that relationships or societies which behave with virtue like honesty, humility, charity, thankfulness, courage, integrity, etc, have order and harmony. Just as it isn't surprising that societies or relationships which practice behaviors devoid of virtue like dishonesty, arrogance, selfishness, greed, thanklessness, cowardice, etc are disordered and chaotic. So while men think they are behaving with virtue, it is their behaviors and outcomes that tell the real story. But the surprising thing is that everyone believes they are good. No one will acknowledge that they are bad. No one says, the hell with your universal code of common decency. They all argue that they are being decent and good.

If God had made evil then we would see evil being done for the sake of evil. This we do not see.

Well, the problem here is the "evil" under the eyes of God is actually what humans have decided is evil.

For God, if there is one, there's a system of atoms. When a living being dies, it merely becomes something else. The atoms don't die.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics tells us that useable energy is not eternal. So while the atoms do not go away their ability to do work does. So it is not possible for the solution to the first cause conundrum to be a material thing.

 

[Taz]

God didn't create evil , we are

stop trying to blame , take some personal responsibility for yourself <snowflake>

you're evil, i'm evil


~S~

So god didn't create everything in the universe, we created some of it? Is that your final answer?