Zone1 Why didn’t God kill the first born of Germany?

[Meriweather]

God does not run our lives as if we were bees. We have autonomy and if we screw up we have to fix it

That philosophy doesn't take into account that often it's not the individual who did wrong, but wrong was done to the individual. There are complexities in each life that overlap other lives. Often it when God--or the Ways of God--are invited into this that change--sometimes even for the better--occurs.

 

[rightwinger]

Whose?

UMmmmm……how about the person benefitting from the labor?

 

[Meriweather]

UMmmmm……how about the person benefitting from the labor?

I am asking you where you would get the money to free all slaves.

 

[hobelim]

That philosophy doesn't take into account that often it's not the individual who did wrong, but wrong was done to the individual.

If God is God there never was a need for any human element to judge guilt or innocence much less enforce his own Law to insure that justice prevails, even if no earthling can see how.

No one gets away with any wrong done against anyone. Even if they never get caught by another human.

 

[Hafar1014]

That philosophy doesn't take into account that often it's not the individual who did wrong, but wrong was done to the individual. There are complexities in each life that overlap other lives. Often it when God--or the Ways of God--are invited into this that change--sometimes even for the better--occurs.

Of course it does people choose to do wrong and people choose to stop it. Those who do nothing ask God for help. God is often the reason for the wrong but not the cause its the excuse

 

[hobelim]

I am asking you where you would get the money to free all slaves.

It didn't cost anything except for a few hundred thousand lives. Who paid Lincoln money to abolish slavery?

And where would you get the money to free your own mind from the slavery of sin by being bound hand and foot to perpetuate false beliefs and degrading religious practices? Can sanity be bought? And who would you pay to do something only you can do for yourself?

 

[rightwinger]

I am asking you where you would get the money to free all slaves.

Pay for your labor.
It is a simple concept even God should know

 

[hobelim]

Pay for your labor.
It is a simple concept even God should know

You might not realize this but even slaves were paid slave wages. And so nothing has really changed for the majority of the people. They just changed the word from slave to employee.

It sounds much better.

And the means of subjugation have just become more sophisticated than whipping in public. Why beat someone to death when you can brainwash them into "believing" they are free.

And they will beat themselves to death for peanuts by working their assess off for devils.

 

[Meriweather]

Pay for your labor.
It is a simple concept even God should know

That is why slaveholders did. They bought their laborer to do the labor. In return, they fed, clothed, and sheltered them. Today, employers do the exact same thing, only instead of providing food, clothing, shelter, they hand their laborers a paycheck and tell them to take care of all that themselves.

Today, instead of calling these people slaves, we call them employees.

 

[Meriweather]

And where would you get the money to free your own mind from the slavery of sin by being bound hand and foot to perpetuate false beliefs and degrading religious practices? Can sanity be bought? And who would you pay to do something only you can do for yourself?

Not going there with you, hobelim.

 

[Meriweather]

Of course it does people choose to do wrong and people choose to stop it. Those who do nothing ask God for help. God is often the reason for the wrong but not the cause its the excuse

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying people sometimes do something in the name of God, but what they are doing is far from God?

 

[citygator]

He didn't live in a fish, he was in "the belly of the beast" which has nothing so do with a fish.


In the Belly of the Beast is a book written by Jack Henry Abbott and published in 1981.

Jack Henry Abbott was an American prisoner and the book consists of his letters to Norman Mailer about his experiences in what Abbott saw as a brutal and unjust prison system.

In the original Hebrew of the Book of Jonah, the word translated as “fish” is: דָּג גָּדוֹל
Transliteration: dag gadol
Literal meaning: “great fish”

If your point is that being in a fish's belly was symbolic - I would agree whole heartedly. I am sure it is a mostly accurate story minus the fantastical parts.

 

[Hafar1014]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying people sometimes do something in the name of God, but what they are doing is far from God?

Think of the regime in Iran Hamas and Hezbollah.

 

[Hafar1014]

In the original Hebrew of the Book of Jonah, the word translated as “fish” is: דָּג גָּדוֹל
Transliteration: dag gadol
Literal meaning: “great fish”

If your point is that being in a fish's belly was symbolic - I would agree whole heartedly. I am sure it is a mostly accurate story minus the fantastical parts.

Big fish is correct its an allegory

 

[rightwinger]

That is why slaveholders did. They bought their laborer to do the labor. In return, they fed, clothed, and sheltered them. Today, employers do the exact same thing, only instead of providing food, clothing, shelter, they hand their laborers a paycheck and tell them to take care of all that themselves.

Today, instead of calling these people slaves, we call them employees.

You seem to miss the concept of slave labor.
Even animals are fed and sheltered
Neither animals or slaves are free to go as they wish

That is not paid labor

 

[Meriweather]

You seem to miss the concept of slave labor.
Even animals are fed and sheltered
Neither animals or slaves are free to go as they wish

That is not paid labor

I understand, but it skirts the overall point. I am asking you what you would do to free all slaves. For example, it is estimated that there are about 50 million slaves in the world today. What will you do to free all of them?

 

[rightwinger]

I understand, but it skirts the overall point. I am asking you what you would do to free all slaves. For example, it is estimated that there are about 50 million slaves in the world today. What will you do to free all of them?

I have no control over slaves in other parts of the world

God does
Maybe he should kill the first born of all slave holders
It worked before

 

[Meriweather]

I have no control over slaves in other parts of the world

God does
Maybe he should kill the first born of all slave holders
It worked before

I see your understanding of the story has not increased since yesterday. So...

Let's go with what your attitude is here. If you had the power, you would kill the first born of all slave holders? You believe that would end the issue of slavery once and for all? That one act from you--and no more slaves, ever?

 

[hobelim]

If your point is that being in a fish's belly was symbolic - I would agree whole heartedly. I am sure it is a mostly accurate story minus the fantastical parts.

Yes, that was my point.

But I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the fantastical parts. They are literary devices intended to emphasize a point. The book is called Torah, meaning instruction, so to the Jewish reader it wasn't important to debate historical accuracy or whether fantastical parts were literally true just like people don't think about that at all when reading Animal Farm. The books are teaching something true that is a matter of life and death, comprehension is the highest aim.

 

[rightwinger]

Let's go with what your attitude is here. If you had the power, you would kill the first born of all slave holders? You believe that would end the issue of slavery once and for all? That one act from you--and no more slaves, ever?

UMmmm….who is going to sign up to own slaves under those conditions?