Why are you against universal health care?

[hadit]

Because it's cheaper, better for most, because the rich don't like it.

And the first time Taylor Swift or Lebron James had to wait 2 months to get her larynx or his knee checked out and neither was allowed to pay for a private consultation (the Hillary model), the usual suspects would be demanding a private option, which the rich would love while everyone else had to suffer through the public option. You're just not going to see Taylor Swift in the waiting room with everyone else for 6 hours waiting to be seen for a sore throat.

 

[Orangecat]

That is like saying that eating too much does not cause obesity, but not exercising enough does. Actually, eating too much and not getting exercise both contribute to obesity.

Incorrect. There could be zero taxation and we wouldn’t incur debt if spending was constrained to that revenue level. Overspending is the cause, not undertaxation. Think better.

 

[Woodznutz]

View attachment 1202124

Selfishness: Personal responsibility, self-sufficiency, rugged individualism.

 

[Hector12]

That is an ideological statement, not a factual one.

Reagan cut the top tax rate from 70% to 28%. He more than doubled the military budget, during a time of peace.

 

[Hector12]

Incorrect. There could be zero taxation and we wouldn’t incur debt if spending was constrained to that revenue level. Overspending is the cause, not undertaxation. Think better.

A government cannot operate without taxes.

 

[dblack]

A government cannot operate without taxes.

Well, that depends on what it's trying to do.

 

[Hector12]

Well, that depends on what it's trying to do.

like build roads. Like enforce the law. Like educate everyone. That cannot be financed with voluntary compliance.

 

[Hector12]

Selfishness: Personal responsibility, self-sufficiency, rugged individualism.

What you advocate means the rich live and everyone else dies when we suffer catastrophic problems, like cancer, heart attacks, and strokes. That is why most of the voters are opposed to what you advocate.

 

[Woodznutz]

Wrong: insurance is not exactly voluntary either . Do you own a car and live someplace where you can't get around with out one. Do you own a home?

Universal Health care my not be voluntary, but neither are taxes, and who the **** do you think ultimately foots the bill when uninsured people show up in the ER ? Who pays when people who are much sicker than they would be if they had been able get preventive and followup care but did not- and now can no longer work or pay taxes? YOU dumb ass!! YOU. Damned ! You people are stupid and short sighted.

Doctors don't provide "preventive care". That's not good for business.

 

[Woodznutz]

What you advocate means the rich live and everyone else dies when we suffer catastrophic problems, like cancer, heart attacks, and strokes. That is why most of the voters are opposed to what you advocate.

If people took more responsibility for their lives, including their health, the healthcare problem would go away.

 

[dblack]

like build roads. Like enforce the law. Like educate everyone. That cannot be financed with voluntary compliance.

There are other ways to finance government. Granted, they don't bring in as much revenue as a gun the head, but it should be enough. It all depends on what you want government to do. If you want it to provide for all your needs, and wipe your ass for you when you're done - we'll need to use the gun-to-the-head method of financing government. And lots of it.

 

[Orangecat]

A government cannot operate without taxes.

I didn’t say it could.
Debt cannot be accrued if you don’t spend more than you bring in. Disagree?

 

[Hector12]

I didn’t say it could.
Debt cannot be accrued if you don’t spend more than you bring in. Disagree?

Debt cannot be accrued unless we cut programs most Americans want to keep, while cutting taxes for the rich, and raising military spending.

 

[dblack]

Debt cannot be accrued unless we cut programs most Americans want to keep ...

See, this is why I'm actually agreeing with you. I think taxes should be raised, across the board, until the budget is balanced. THAT is the only thing that will get voters' attention. Then, when it actually costs them something, we'll see how much "free shit" they really want.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Lets take the NHS in the UK. Im there every year know some DRs and I trained mental health therapists there.
Its out of funds Covid broke it. Drs have gotten one raise in 14 years after a strike by Jr Drs. Wait times are now in months and even years. People die waiting fir treatment. Acute emergencies dont wait. There is zero mental health fir children you have to pay it yourself.
They pay higher taxes than we pay, a 15% VAT tax on all goods and services, have lower standard of living(median) and live in much smaller spaces.

The Collapse of Britain’s National Health Service - FEE

It’s a poorly-kept secret that Britain’s National Health Service (NHS) has faced crisis after crisis. But the latest scandal over 3 million “unseen patients”

fee.org

Over generalization logical fallacy , All that this proves is that it is not working well in the UK. It does not prove that universal health care is inherently faulty. There are many places where it;s working well:

There's no single "best" healthcare system, as rankings vary, but Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, and Australia consistently rank highly for universal access, quality, and affordability, while Switzerland, Netherlands, and Japan are also praised for strong outcomes, innovation, and efficiency, often with high life expectancies and low infant mortality, though systems differ greatly in funding and structure.

Top Performers by Index

• CEOWORLD Health Care Index (2025): Taiwan (1st), South Korea (2nd), Australia (3rd).
  
  
• Statista (2023): Singapore (1st), Japan (2nd), South Korea (3rd).
  
  
• Commonwealth Fund (2024): Australia, Netherlands, scored highest for access, efficiency, and outcomes (excluding U.S.).
  

Key Strengths of Top Systems

• Taiwan (National Health Insurance - NHI): Universal, affordable, high-tech, short waits.
  
  
• Singapore: Efficient mixed system (compulsory savings), high tech, excellent outcomes (low infant mortality).
  
  
• South Korea: Strong universal coverage, advanced tech, accessible care.
  
  
• Australia: Comprehensive care, good outcomes, high-quality services.
  
  
• Switzerland: Regulated competition among private insurers, mandatory coverage, high quality.
  
  
• Japan: High life expectancy, efficient system, robust universal care.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Reagan cut the top tax rate from 70% to 28%. He more than doubled the military budget, during a time of peace.

None of which changes your ideological position into a fact.

 

[Orangecat]

Debt cannot be accrued unless we cut programs most Americans want to keep, while cutting taxes for the rich, and raising military spending.

Incorrect. The only way debt is accrued is by spending above revenue levels. Period.
BTW, you don’t speak for all Americans. Of course those on the dole want to keep getting their cheese.

 

[there4eyeM]

Logical? I suppose it depends on your goal. If the ubiquitous state (totalitarian government) is what you're after, definitely. It's the next "logical extension". Then the government would need to get control of the food supply, housing - and eventually, all employment.

The cited post said nothing about government.

 

[M14 Shooter]

All that this proves is that it is not working well in the UK. It does not prove that universal health care is inherently faulty. There are many places where it;s working well:

There's no single "best" healthcare system, as rankings vary, but Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, and Australia consistently rank highly for universal access, quality, and affordability, while Switzerland, Netherlands, and Japan are also praised for strong outcomes, innovation, and efficiency, often with high life expectancies and low infant mortality, though systems differ greatly in funding and structure.

Over generalization logical fallacy -- All this proves is that it is working well in those places; It does not prove that universal health care inherently works well, or that it will work here..

 

[dblack]

The cited post said nothing about government.

Ok, what do you have in mind?