Why Are Republicans the Only Climate-Science-Denying Party in the World?

[DigitalDrifter]

According to that logic, forest fires used to always happen naturally, therefore it's impossible for humans to cause forest fires.

Denier logic is stupid, and that's why nobody pays attention to deniers.

Are you talking to me ?

 

[mamooth]

Yes. I'm pointing out how silly your "But climate changed naturally in the past!" reasoning is.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

What's silly about it ? Climate changes would happen whether humans were part of this world or not.
Why do you guys on the left live in such fear of it ? Do you honestly believe sea levels, and topography would be static if not for humans ? Did you make the mistake of believing that humans will always be present as long as this planet is around ?

 

[flacaltenn]

According to that logic, forest fires used to always happen naturally, therefore it's impossible for humans to cause forest fires.

Denier logic is stupid, and that's why nobody pays attention to deniers.

Not really.. The logic is solid as long as you treat the human contribution to forest fires as an ADDITIVE effect. And to DO THAT --- you'd have to include all the money and lives spent on forest fire CONTAINMENT every year.

See -- we're thinking OK -- you need to go test yourself. The effects of man-made CO2 probably does have a marginal additive effect on Global temperature -- but it is NEITHER the DOMINANT effect on climate nor is it settled science that it will trigger the suicidal tendencies of the Planet to destroy itself as your church would have you believe..

 

[sealybobo]

Do any of you lefty nitwits ever ponder how the ice ages of history came (got colder) and went (got warmer)? Who/what could have caused such phenomena?

Do you understand this is different?

Your corporations have a reason to deny it. What's nasa's?

Even china knows you're dumb.

Not clear that "this is different"... One of the largest misrepresentations to be force-fed to the public is those various hockey stick studies. Which by themselves is just a science yawn. BUT claims were made that they PROVED the current 0.6degC warming blip in your lifetime was UNPRECEDENTED in the past 2000 or 10,000 years.

Problem is ---- those studies reporting to compare past GLOBAL climates used less than 100 measurements taken from tree rings, ice cores and mudbug shells that NEVER could detect a 60 or 80 years blip in the temperature curve. The hockey sticks were the equivalent of taking the last 100 years of the DOW -- running a 10 or 15 yr average over the data --- and then wondering what the REAL market peaks and valleys were. To make their sponsors happy, they then cut off the proxy data (ice cores, tree rings, mudbugs) at about the beginning of the industrial age and SPLICED the modern instrumented temperature record onto the right side of the graph. Giving the IMPRESSION that the climate never varied as it does today..

A lot of smoke and mirrors. A lot of money available for research FAVORABLE to the government/UN cause of man-made climate change and the usual circus of political scuffling and pandering. The science is NOT settled. Never was. It's changing as we speak..

We need to go green anyways, for a million other reasons.

Then MAKE those arguments. Don't hijack scientific inquiry in order to pass that agenda.
One reason I despise this Global Warming circus of propaganda is that it has TOTALLY SMOTHERED the environmental agenda. The issues of REAL pollution and REAL species mgt and survival.

I WANT those genuine issues to re-emerge politically as much or more than you do..

See I think it's the other side that has us caught up in the "global warming" debate. Fact is we need to clean up our act.

 

[sealybobo]

What's silly about it ? Climate changes would happen whether humans were part of this world or not.
Why do you guys on the left live in such fear of it ? Do you honestly believe sea levels, and topography would be static if not for humans ? Did you make the mistake of believing that humans will always be present as long as this planet is around ?

No we will kill ourselves and cockroaches will be the next species at the top of the food chain.

I guess if I'm gone what do I care if humans live on? Did the dinosaurs that died 1 million years before the mass extinction care that one day dinosaurs wouldn't exist?

 

[IsaacNewton]

Uh.....uh, because they're stupid white people who's brain consist of concrete and gator spit. Uh, because they're bought and paid for with special interest money...uh, because they're from a country that can see Russia from its porch, hell I dunno!!

1) Conservative have a very hard time facing reality.
2) Because they have a hard time facing reality they worship money because that is the best way humans have found to keep reality at bay.
3) They therefore worship any humans that have money and will defend their right to destroy all of creation to make money.

In shorter terms, they are humans that have not progressed past the animal level. Their minds are arrested.

 

[mamooth]

but it is NEITHER the DOMINANT effect on climate nor is it settled science that it will trigger the suicidal tendencies of the Planet to destroy itself as your church would have you believe..

The Gaian philosophy of a sentient planet now most correctly describes the deniers, given how they all say the earth just changes climate whenever it feels like it.

In contrast, the rational people point out that any change has causes, and they point to the specific causes. They don't just wave their hands around and say how they feel the changes must be all natural crunchy granola.

 

[rdean]

Understanding the REAL history of climate on earth & universal (as in the sun, tilt of the earth, cyclical wobble of that tilt, etc....) influences on it. But please continue to tell me how cow farts & my lawnmower supercede those factors.

Dude on another thread you speculated that some kind of "molten core" creates a "magnetic field" that let's Earth have life?! Wtf that sounds like a bunch of made up liberal mumbo jumbo! I don't see no magnets in the sky!

Anyways, of course humans have absolutely zero impact on the planet. We haven't changed anything at all. Jesus will take care of us.

I can't tell if it's serious or satire.

Ask Jesus!

Jesus was ask, "Wash my hands? Why? I only pooped".

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Can the climate changers fix it so that it only rains once a week at 3am?

 

[flacaltenn]

Do any of you lefty nitwits ever ponder how the ice ages of history came (got colder) and went (got warmer)? Who/what could have caused such phenomena?

Do you understand this is different?

Your corporations have a reason to deny it. What's nasa's?

Even china knows you're dumb.

Not clear that "this is different"... One of the largest misrepresentations to be force-fed to the public is those various hockey stick studies. Which by themselves is just a science yawn. BUT claims were made that they PROVED the current 0.6degC warming blip in your lifetime was UNPRECEDENTED in the past 2000 or 10,000 years.

Problem is ---- those studies reporting to compare past GLOBAL climates used less than 100 measurements taken from tree rings, ice cores and mudbug shells that NEVER could detect a 60 or 80 years blip in the temperature curve. The hockey sticks were the equivalent of taking the last 100 years of the DOW -- running a 10 or 15 yr average over the data --- and then wondering what the REAL market peaks and valleys were. To make their sponsors happy, they then cut off the proxy data (ice cores, tree rings, mudbugs) at about the beginning of the industrial age and SPLICED the modern instrumented temperature record onto the right side of the graph. Giving the IMPRESSION that the climate never varied as it does today..

A lot of smoke and mirrors. A lot of money available for research FAVORABLE to the government/UN cause of man-made climate change and the usual circus of political scuffling and pandering. The science is NOT settled. Never was. It's changing as we speak..

We need to go green anyways, for a million other reasons.

Then MAKE those arguments. Don't hijack scientific inquiry in order to pass that agenda.
One reason I despise this Global Warming circus of propaganda is that it has TOTALLY SMOTHERED the environmental agenda. The issues of REAL pollution and REAL species mgt and survival.

I WANT those genuine issues to re-emerge politically as much or more than you do..

See I think it's the other side that has us caught up in the "global warming" debate. Fact is we need to clean up our act.

What kind of conspiracy theory is that? It's because of skeptical opposition that the leftist political program blames EVERY f-ing enviro problem on Global Warming? Tell them to grow up READ some science. Then every time a borer beetle brings down a cedar forest --- the fanatics might think of OTHER reasons other than a 0.5deg change in temperature to explain the problem..

Stuff will start getting done..

I'm gonna have to ponder that theory....

Global Warming makes EVERY moron --- an environmentalist. Because all they got to know is the tales they've been told.. Spoon fed propaganda. Not actual knowledge..

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Uh.....uh, because they're stupid white people who's brain consist of concrete and gator spit. Uh, because they're bought and paid for with special interest money...uh, because they're from a country that can see Russia from its porch, hell I dunno!!

Reminded me of some 80s comedy where a defense contractor's amazed some primitive but rich African tribe hasordered their latest fighter jet and an aide explains they don't actually fly them, they perch them atop hills and roll them down into one another. Wanna say "Best Defense" but dunno.

Anyway, there's gotta be a crazier political party than the Republicans.

 

[tigerred59]

Uh.....uh, because they're stupid white people who's brain consist of concrete and gator spit. Uh, because they're bought and paid for with special interest money...uh, because they're from a country that can see Russia from its porch, hell I dunno!!

Reminded me of some 80s comedy where a defense contractor's amazed some primitive but rich African tribe hasordered their latest fighter jet and an aide explains they don't actually fly them, they perch them atop hills and roll them down into one another. Wanna say "Best Defense" but dunno.

Anyway, there's gotta be a crazier political party than the Republicans.

Oh, but there is, can we all say Tea Party and not wet our pants from laughter?

 

[peach174]

Why Are Republicans the Only Climate-Science-Denying Party in the World?

Republicans?

LOL!

No No scamp.

Americans.

Americans simply understand that the one consistent trait of the earth's climate is: CHANGE.

And as a result, we aren't prone to wet out pant, when the climate changes.

THAT is the purview of the lowly imbecile... which in greater nature are otherwise known as: FOOD!

Not just Americans, but the UK, Australia, Canada, Russia.
Many deny man made climate change.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Uh.....uh, because they're stupid white people who's brain consist of concrete and gator spit. Uh, because they're bought and paid for with special interest money...uh, because they're from a country that can see Russia from its porch, hell I dunno!!

Reminded me of some 80s comedy where a defense contractor's amazed some primitive but rich African tribe hasordered their latest fighter jet and an aide explains they don't actually fly them, they perch them atop hills and roll them down into one another. Wanna say "Best Defense" but dunno.

Anyway, there's gotta be a crazier political party than the Republicans.

Oh, but there is, can we all say Tea Party and not wet our pants from laughter?

TP's like the Green Party. Exists only on paper. But every supposed TP politician now in office still seems to have an (R) after their name, not a (TP)

 

[Where_r_my_Keys]

TP's like the Green Party. Exists only on paper. But every supposed TP politician now in office still seems to have an (R) after their name, not a (TP)

Golly aren't you the dim little bulb.

The Tea Party, like "America", is a set of ideas, not a place or an entity.

 

[tigerred59]

Uh.....uh, because they're stupid white people who's brain consist of concrete and gator spit. Uh, because they're bought and paid for with special interest money...uh, because they're from a country that can see Russia from its porch, hell I dunno!!

Reminded me of some 80s comedy where a defense contractor's amazed some primitive but rich African tribe hasordered their latest fighter jet and an aide explains they don't actually fly them, they perch them atop hills and roll them down into one another. Wanna say "Best Defense" but dunno.

Anyway, there's gotta be a crazier political party than the Republicans.

Oh, but there is, can we all say Tea Party and not wet our pants from laughter?

TP's like the Green Party. Exists only on paper. But every supposed TP politician now in office still seems to have an (R) after their name, not a (TP)

yes and no, they don't follow GOP doctrine...they may vote along those lines, but the majority claim TP affiliation at least on the campaign trail.

 

[tigerred59]

TP's like the Green Party. Exists only on paper. But every supposed TP politician now in office still seems to have an (R) after their name, not a (TP)

Golly aren't you the dim little bulb.

The Tea Party, like "America", is a set of ideas, not a place or an entity.

You're the dumb ass, GOP=based on ideology, Dem=based on ideology, etc.....dumb ass!!

 

[EverCurious]

Those estimates are for watts produced, silly ass.

If they were for watts produced, why did you say they were estimates?

Do you have the actual production figures, or are we supposed to trust your "source"?

He knows how ridiculous and unpredictable wind power production actually is. And yet he wants ACRES of batteries to support a small neighborhood for wind/solar. ALSO not included in these fudged 4cent numbers..

And NO GoldiRocks -- those are projections of "cost" based on the installed capacity -- NOT the actual output..

Related actual numbers ~ Wind power capacity at Fire Island set to double by October of 2015

* Specifically see the Wind Costs section (damn thing won't let me copy and past)

Bottom line summary; the cost of electricity from the wind farm is $97 per megawatt hour vs $60-65 per megawatt hour on gas turbines. As per Chugach's accounting records; "the use of wind power saved 474 million cubic feet of gas last year, for a fuel savings of about $2.4million. BUT Chugach spent $4.6 million on wind power.

Eventually, experts predict gas costs will exceed the cost of turning wind into electricity, and if that happens, the wind power contract will be a good deal for Chugach and its customers.

Until then, customers will pay a surcharge..." [to cover the costs of wind power, a $1.22/m average on their bills]

Wouldn't be convinced without a full accounting. Does that include production subsidies? What development costs are being amortized? But NONE of that really matters. Have you ever seen a Daily production chart for a wind farm? A WELL-SITED offshore Danish Wind farm for example?

THAT -- is not "an alternative" to anything. It's barely a supplement. Because you have to eat the WASTE of idling a full service plant while the wind blows for 20 minutes.. You can't turn huge generation on/off like a light switch.. Can't make contracts to deliver it -- because you can't schedule it. You cannot EXPAND capacity of the GRID relying on wind. You just can really rely on it at all.

BTW --- in the chart above, the 400,000 mark is the Installled capacity figure for that wind farm.. The number that eco-fraud toss about to brag about how much of this shit is installed or "doubled" -- Like you just did..

I think you're yelling at the wrong quote here, but I was tired and didn't go into the depth I wanted to last night so here's more:

Chugach Electric is a member owned corporation that provides nearly (basically all save private household solar/wind/etc) electrical power for the biggest city in Alaska. When our state gov jumped on the green energy bandwagon and decided we /must/ have 50% green energy we kind of spazed out frankly. None of this shit has been really tested up here, and it's, frankly, an annoyance for an oil and natural gas rich state... Regardless, we didn't have much choice, the words were on the page and all. So we went with the Fire Island Wind Project as part of our attempt to meet an uncomfortably close deadline for the green energy usage mandate.

What we found almost immediately (within less than a year) is that wind is unreliable (and Fire Island was the best possible option for steady winds near Anchorage.) We are also unable to store the electricity it produces, so basically if the wind blows at night, most of that power goes to waste because folks aren't using it, if the wind does /not/ blow during the day, there's nothing... One might want to argue that we should have batteries to store said "waste" electricity, but the problem, as always, in Alaska, is that batteries don't like the cold - these are the exact same problems we have with solar power btw - reliability and storage. The amount of money we'd have to put into a battery storage system would far, far outweigh the cost of the wasted electricity from Fire Island. We lose around 3000 megawatts of electricity from Fire Island a year, so it's not /that/ big a deal in the grand scope of things, but it is still a concern for the viability of wind power here.

I'd like to mention that electricity is not something we fuck around with up here; losing power up here can very easily result in billions in property damage from frozen pipes and loss of life, along with the spoiled food, etc. that typically come with power outages in the lower 48. One has to understand that "there is only one", there is no /other grid/ that we might take power off of in a situation - We have our grid and that is /all there is/, so if our grid isn't making the power we need, we don't have power, there is no alternative, no safety net. So when it comes to wind power and it's unreliability, we're not real keen to say the least... If you visit here Fire Island Wind Output | Chugach Electric Association, Inc. and flip through the past four years of output from FIW you'll notice that every month there is at least one day where there is zero output - aka no wind. THIS is not acceptable at all. When it's -30 outside and the airs dead still, we are /not/ going to suffer without power just to use "green energy" sorry, not fucking happening.

Now, despite us consumer owners immediate concerns with Fire Island's viability in 2013, CIRI (the owner of the wind farm) wanted to take advantage of a Fed tax credit for green energy, to the tune of $15million dollars, and double the capacity of Fire Island. The problem with their plan (as noted in the article I linked) was that Chugach wasn't sure if it /wanted/ to buy more electricity from the unreliable and cost ineffective wind plant.

Chugach said thanks but no thanks... (CIRI did not expand Fire Island, still hasn't, and very likely never will.)



What have we found after (now 4 years) with wind power? Well, it currently costs between $1-$40/month extra /per customer/ for the wind farm, and worse, the only reason the added cost is even that low is because of "green energy" cert sales. See Chugach earns "Renewable Energy Certificates" for every megawatt hour of wind power (which because of the contract we gave CIRI is /all/ of it regardless if we need it or not), we sell those certs on a national/retail market for cash, which we then use those profits to offset the extra cost of wind power - and DESPITE doing that, it /still/ costs us more per month.

I mean, it's a buck or two, and we get a shiny "green energy" sticker, but it is /not/ a fiscally sound investment in the slightest. IF the REC program goes away, we're going to lose our ass on wind power, and we'll still have the reliability and storage issues. Wind Power, despite our very best efforts in Alaska, is simply /not/ viable.

Chugach signed onto a 25 year contract at the current price, if we had not then CIRI would go bankrupt right after the contract ended because there is absolutely zero chance that we will agree (again) to pay just under double the cost of nat gas energy costs (which we have more than enough nat gas.) We were told that this wind farm would provide 4% of our electrical needs, we were told that it would save us 4% of our nat gas usage, we were told a lot of shit - and it was exactly that "shit." Fire Island provides 2% of our power needs, and costs us 3 times as much as nat gas (with the REC sale profits it's just under twice the cost.) It is just not viable for us.

----

In the larger picture, wind power flat out will /not/ be viable for every situation/location, period. It is not the answer to "green energy" nor is solar power (we're cloudy a LOT), nor is geothermal, hydro, tidal, wave, whatever. There is no /one/ answer for every place, so the idea of /forcing/ everywhere to conform with a "green agenda" is bullshit and /not/ a solution. Every single city/state needs to look at their very specific individual needs and go from there, "green energy" needs to be 100% customized. For example, /if/ one has a lumber processing mill, then it /is/ smart to use their sawdust in a biomass generator. If one has a salmon processing plant, then a fish oil burning plant is a good idea. Trying to stick a "one-size fits all" solution on the entire planet regardless of individual needs and particulars is heavy handed, short sided, and lazy. And when we talk about how much crap is put into the air, it shouldn't be on a "per plant" basis, but more of a "state" basis. That way everyone gets the power they need, in the best way for them, AND we're still working toward putting less pollution into the air. That is a 'sustainable' and 'educated' approach to the issue, not the "fuck you use less" asshattery that is being pushed now.

I try to be reasonable/fair/understanding, because as an Alaskan blessed with very clean air, unimaginable wildlife and natural beauty, and I have a lot of respect for "nature" as a whole - not to mention my states dependence on tourists, and a hundred other reasons I like the idea of "green energy," but I swear, 90% of the time I listen to you guys yap it sounds like a kid throwing a temper tantrum and I just want to yell grow the fuck up. I feel like you guys don't actually /care/ about the environment, but rather you're suck on some fucked up train ride and can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. If you stop being so dooms-day, narrow focused, and... stupid about the little shit details, I think you'll find that 99% of the people in the country (hell maybe even the world) are actually cool with the "idea" of green energy. We just need to find the individualized solutions that work. This takes time, something you folks don't seem to get...

The "global warming scare" came about between the late 70's and the 90's depending on where you want to look. Since then we have not only researched and developed green energy tech, but reduced our fossil fuel reliance by an estimated 22% over the /entire planet/ (as of 2013) and it's fully expected that green energy conversion will increase at a fairly steady annual rate across the entire planet - especially as green energy production becomes more reliable and cost effective. In 1990 (earliest tracked stats from the IEA) the US used 2.3k terawatts per hour and put out 4.5k metric tons of CO2, as of 2012 we were using 4k terawatts per hour and putting our 5.1k metric tons of CO2. Our power use doubled, the CO2 output barely moved up - that's a massive improvement over the span of a mere 22 years. And that is /with/ all the major problems with green energy viability/reliability.

Have a little patience, it's going to get a lot better as we steadily improve on the reliability/viability/and cost factors of alternative energy

 

[sealybobo]

Do you understand this is different?

Your corporations have a reason to deny it. What's nasa's?

Even china knows you're dumb.

Not clear that "this is different"... One of the largest misrepresentations to be force-fed to the public is those various hockey stick studies. Which by themselves is just a science yawn. BUT claims were made that they PROVED the current 0.6degC warming blip in your lifetime was UNPRECEDENTED in the past 2000 or 10,000 years.

Problem is ---- those studies reporting to compare past GLOBAL climates used less than 100 measurements taken from tree rings, ice cores and mudbug shells that NEVER could detect a 60 or 80 years blip in the temperature curve. The hockey sticks were the equivalent of taking the last 100 years of the DOW -- running a 10 or 15 yr average over the data --- and then wondering what the REAL market peaks and valleys were. To make their sponsors happy, they then cut off the proxy data (ice cores, tree rings, mudbugs) at about the beginning of the industrial age and SPLICED the modern instrumented temperature record onto the right side of the graph. Giving the IMPRESSION that the climate never varied as it does today..

A lot of smoke and mirrors. A lot of money available for research FAVORABLE to the government/UN cause of man-made climate change and the usual circus of political scuffling and pandering. The science is NOT settled. Never was. It's changing as we speak..

We need to go green anyways, for a million other reasons.

Then MAKE those arguments. Don't hijack scientific inquiry in order to pass that agenda.
One reason I despise this Global Warming circus of propaganda is that it has TOTALLY SMOTHERED the environmental agenda. The issues of REAL pollution and REAL species mgt and survival.

I WANT those genuine issues to re-emerge politically as much or more than you do..

See I think it's the other side that has us caught up in the "global warming" debate. Fact is we need to clean up our act.

What kind of conspiracy theory is that? It's because of skeptical opposition that the leftist political program blames EVERY f-ing enviro problem on Global Warming? Tell them to grow up READ some science. Then every time a borer beetle brings down a cedar forest --- the fanatics might think of OTHER reasons other than a 0.5deg change in temperature to explain the problem..

Stuff will start getting done..

I'm gonna have to ponder that theory....

Global Warming makes EVERY moron --- an environmentalist. Because all they got to know is the tales they've been told.. Spoon fed propaganda. Not actual knowledge..

Everyone except you and the fringe group who believe like you. Unfortunately like lead paint and tobacco lobbyists you have money behind you. And the politicians in your pocket. And you now control all the media.