Why Are Republicans So Relentlessly Cruel to the Poor?

[Markle]

What happened on 9/11, was a direct result of republicans being cruel to the poor.

 

[Papageorgio]

You said it was the bombings of the poor, Clinton was among those that bombed the poor. He shellacked Iraq and we Bosnia both on Clinton's watch. We bombed Libya under Obama's watch. It isn't just Republican or Democrat, it's both. JFK and LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Bush all did their share of bombings, spare me the partisan BS.

Stop moving the fucking goalposts! You brought up regime change in Iraq, but started the clock at the wrong time. Then as soon as I corrected you, you change the subject.

BTW, I was against all those other bombings as well, so you can save your little partisan mantra for someone else.

I didn't change a thing, the poor were being bombed by both parties for decades. From Hoover to today, to claim either was more responsible is partisan bullshit and that is all you have.

 

[Markle]

Switzerland is socialist

Switzerland is not a Socialist country. Venezuela is a Socialist country.

Switzerland is like most other Western European countries. Not Socialist but very, very heavily taxed. Switzerland is also very, very rich and very, very small. The population of New York City is more than the entire country of Switzerland.

Someday look up the definition of Socialism.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Tell me about it. What did Israel do to the Palestinians that wasn't in response to an attack on them?

They bomb their hospitals; shoot at their fishermen and farmers; there isn't a week that goes by without some Israeli drone strike or missile strike; in 2008 there was a ceasefire that lasted 4 months until the Israeli's launched a commando raid in to Gaza to kill some Hamas members...

...the list just goes on and on. And fuck you for deliberately turning a blind eye to this.

No......fuck you for not giving me a direct answer to my question. Say, how do you feel about ISIS? Do you love them just as much as the Palestinians? Just curious about how many of your kind are around.

 

[Markle]

It is kind interesting at the time of our illegal and immoral invasion, Iraq was about to come out from under UN sanctions and be able to sell oil on the international market once again. But since we were the country to force those sanctions on Iraq, which resulted in half the poor people babies to die, there is no way they would sell to us.

YOUR evidence showed over a million dead. But I understand why you didn't see that, the suffering of the poor never registers on your radar.

The Iraq Body Count project (IBC) figure of Documented civilian deaths from violence is 155,923 – 174,355 as of March 2016. This includes reported civilian deaths due to Coalition and insurgent military action, sectarian violence and increased criminal violence.[19] The IBC site states: "it should be noted that many deaths will probably go unreported or unrecorded by officials and media."[20] The IBC website currently states that, "Further analysis of the WikiLeaks' Iraq War Logs may add 12,000 civilian deaths."

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia

What they did here is add every possible body count they could put in their figures whether it was directly related to the war or indirectly.

My good friend Bill O'Really knows all that by heart. He just loves stirring the pot. I think he gets paid by the post or something.

 

[Markle]

The Iraq Body Count project (IBC) figure of Documented civilian deaths from violence is 155,923 – 174,355 as of March 2016. This includes reported civilian deaths due to Coalition and insurgent military action, sectarian violence and increased criminal violence.[19] The IBC site states: "it should be noted that many deaths will probably go unreported or unrecorded by officials and media."[20] The IBC website currently states that, "Further analysis of the WikiLeaks' Iraq War Logs may add 12,000 civilian deaths."

Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia

What they did here is add every possible body count they could put in their figures whether it was directly related to the war or indirectly.

Wrong. IBC records about "half" the deaths in Iraq, according to one of their founders...

"IBC’s numbers do skew low, according to some scientists and the organization itself, which acknowledged in 2004 that “our own total is certain to be an underestimate of the true position.” “Probably we’re recording around half or more of civilian deaths” in Iraq"
- Hamit Dardagan, one of IBC’s founders​

BTW, don't you remember "this", from your Wikipedia link?

You're ignorant of the methodology of your false claim. As you have learned in the past, your ESTIMATE is based on a survey of a limited number of people. For instance, has anyone in your family died a violent death? Yes, five people. Then they ask someone else who also say five people but, they're the same five people.

The figures from Ray are from body counts. Itemized.

Grow up, you just look foolish.

 

[Markle]

No matter how many times people repeat the phrase, "resist the occupation" it remains a brain dead stupid thing to say.

Why? Because might makes right?

First, there is no occupation.

Now that's a stupid thing to say.

95% of the Palestinians live under the jurisdiction of either the PA or Hamas, which both have their own laws, foreign relations, etc., which operate as separate countries,

If they operate as separate countries, then why can't the people there leave?

and they would be fully sovereign nations if their leaderships had not said, no, to every offer that would have left Israel intact as the homeland of the Jewish people.

You got that ass-backwards. Not only did Netanfuckyou say no to a two-state solution, the Israeli's have broken every ceasefire they made.

So there is no occupation

No, there is an occupation and there has been one since 1967 and you fuckers ain't changing the status now.

and if they are victims, they are clearly victims of their own leaders.

They are all victims of state-sponsored, Israeli terrorism.

What you call resistance in every country in the world is called terrorism.

Are you calling the right to self defense, terrorism?

Everyone has grievances, but when you target people because of their race or ethnicity because of those grievances, you are a terrorist.

People are not being targeted because of their race or ethnicity. In fact, no one is being targeted. Palestinian's can't target anyone. Their rockets have no guidance systems. That's why using them is a war crime. They're indiscriminate weapons.

While it is true that only a small number of Palestinians commit these acts of terrorism, poll after poll show that the vast majority of Palestinians support these acts of terrorism, just as you apparently do.

Defending yourselves from foreign invaders, is not terrorism. Israel deliberately bombing hospitals and civilian infrastructure, is terrorism.

Did you get a whole buck for that one? Just roll them all together?

 

[toomuchtime_]

No matter how many times people repeat the phrase, "resist the occupation" it remains a brain dead stupid thing to say.

Why? Because might makes right?

First, there is no occupation.

Now that's a stupid thing to say.

95% of the Palestinians live under the jurisdiction of either the PA or Hamas, which both have their own laws, foreign relations, etc., which operate as separate countries,

If they operate as separate countries, then why can't the people there leave?

and they would be fully sovereign nations if their leaderships had not said, no, to every offer that would have left Israel intact as the homeland of the Jewish people.

You got that ass-backwards. Not only did Netanfuckyou say no to a two-state solution, the Israeli's have broken every ceasefire they made.

So there is no occupation

No, there is an occupation and there has been one since 1967 and you fuckers ain't changing the status now.

and if they are victims, they are clearly victims of their own leaders.

They are all victims of state-sponsored, Israeli terrorism.

What you call resistance in every country in the world is called terrorism.

Are you calling the right to self defense, terrorism?

Everyone has grievances, but when you target people because of their race or ethnicity because of those grievances, you are a terrorist.

People are not being targeted because of their race or ethnicity. In fact, no one is being targeted. Palestinian's can't target anyone. Their rockets have no guidance systems. That's why using them is a war crime. They're indiscriminate weapons.

While it is true that only a small number of Palestinians commit these acts of terrorism, poll after poll show that the vast majority of Palestinians support these acts of terrorism, just as you apparently do.

Defending yourselves from foreign invaders, is not terrorism. Israel deliberately bombing hospitals and civilian infrastructure, is terrorism.

Clearly, you've got a lot of slogans you've never thought about rattling around in your head, and that's why you see the world as a bunch of one liners. Maybe someday you'll become interested enough in the issue to try to understand it.

 

[frigidweirdo]

Not really, no. It already happens, it's called being a part of society.

Parents are the biggest shaper of their own children, and many of them aren't shaping their kids into respectable members of society.

We make laws, we demand that people abide by these rules. You don't see how that's a problem?
Perhaps schools should be working with parents to help shape their kids. Problem is that being a parent doesn't come with many must dos, one of those is getting them an education, and often it's left to teachers to try and shape those kids into decent human beings because their parents won't.

Now, if their parents won't, chances are when they become parents they won't either, do you see the problem here?

And BC some aren't good parents, schools should replace all parents roles? I can't stand this argument, because of one bad apple government has to fix the entire bunch. Do you really want trump in charge of indoctrinating you're children? Let's say trump somehow ends presidential term limits and becomes a 4 term president...that doesn't sound like a nightmare for America? We need to take away this power that is already being abused by our schools, who think they know better than all parents. We want kids who are objective free thinkers, not the Hitler youth. To stop hitler youth and other forms, we need to decentralize. It's only in a centralized infrastructure we get widespread indoctrination.

No, I don't want "indoctrination". I want education to be intelligent and politics to keep away from education.

The problem is the education system led to Trump. This whole "let kids be ignorant, otherwise it's indoctrination" is what is leading the US to pick leaders who shouldn't be leaders.

Uh-huh and the right would say the exact thing. With probably more evidence than you.

The real reason it's so easy to get A's in college

Is this not a worrying trend to you? That our "higher educational" systems aren't actually educating, just herding kids through.

I believe kids should be taught how to think, not what to think. I think there should be a wide range of teaching techniques presented, as well as a wide range of ideas presented. Centralizing education directly endangers this, and is put even more at risk when Demagogues from the right or left are elected. We need to teach critical thinking, the common logical fallacies, and self reliance. Not reliance on teachers.

No doubt they could, and I see it all the time. Evidence wise I haven't really even started, I'm having internet problems big time, when it takes 10 minutes to open some websites, well... you just ain't getting much.

Yes, it's worrying that education systems aren't doing their job. I've seen educators who could, if given the chance, turn education into something special. The problem is in the US especially, there is a massive campaign against education, from both sides using education as a political football, and that's sad.

I agree, kids should be thought how to think for themselves. I've also see this done with history. Seeing 11 year old kids looking at evidence, then making their own decisions about this. This was not in the US though. But it happens. The US just won't allow it to happen.

I can agree with you there. I don't think what you're advocating for is out of any stupid or I'll will intentions. I just think it's dangerous to put the state in charge of our children's morals. I think where we disagree is that fact, and I know it's the slippery slope argument, but the truth is the slippery slope is something to worry about. After all, the NAZIs did happen, the German people were just like you and me at the time, not savages, just people who went through hard times and called upon authority to fix it for them. And what we've learned from the milgram experiments is that 75% of us will shock someone who we know has a heart condition to death, just because an authority figure tells us it's ok. These were adults in this experiments, what we're talking about is children, who by nature learn from authority figures. This is why we need to keep whoevers in power in government out of educating our children. We do that best by decentralizing education.

Perhaps it is dangerous to put the govt in charge of morals. But it's no more dangerous that putting them in charge of religions, or anyone else, or even just letting them go free.

The theory behind govt is one where people vote for those they want to represent them, and then these people do. Clearly this has broken down and the system needs to be changed so that once again the representatives represent the people, so that then things like teaching morals to children doesn't become "indoctrination" but just sensible building of children into decent adults.

Yes, the Nazis did something bad. Again, the difference is they had a dictator. The US is getting closer to dictatorship than democracy. Maybe it's time for people to take back govt, and not by electing some rich person.

 

[Billo_Really]

That, as you know is a lie as well.

I provided the evidence in post 2943.

 

[Billo_Really]

Really? Since when?

Since people with a brain could think.

 

[Billo_Really]

How is making the poor slaves to big government compassionate?

Do you know it is against forum rules to deliberately quote another poster out of context just feed your dumbass strawman?

Interesting how Progressives accuse others of being racists, bigots, hate-mongers and, in this case, cruel.

At the same time, it is THEY who pride themselves on separating all minorities into carefully constructed pigeon holes. They then proceed to promulgate a plan to pander to each group and offer them enticements and handouts tailored to them specifically. Be they increases in entitlements, affirmative action, higher quotas, lowering of standards or any number of benefits.

In this way, they create a dependency among their chosen minorities on themselves, who they themselves perceive as the ELITES. The ELITES view themselves as being so superior that it is their responsibility in life to make decisions for those they consider inferior to themselves. In this way, they convince these pigeon-holed minorities that without them, they could not exist, that they are incapable of being responsible for themselves and must depend entirely on the benevolent Democrats.

This is simply replacing the old Southern Plantation Slave Master with GOVERNMENT and the Slaves with any minority group. In this way, they are also able to continue to reward bad behavior and punish any good behavior. Liberals tell themselves that their INTENTIONS ARE GOOD, but the results are insulting, immoral and shameful.

That was too ridiculous to comment on.

Let me know when you get back to planet earth.

 

[Billo_Really]

I didn't change a thing, the poor were being bombed by both parties for decades. From Hoover to today, to claim either was more responsible is partisan bullshit and that is all you have.

We were talking about 9/11 and Iraq, not everything under the fucking sun. Start a thread if you want to talk about that shit. Yes, you were trying to change the subject.

 

[Billo_Really]

No......fuck you for not giving me a direct answer to my question.

You're right, I didn't give you a direct answer, I gave you several of them. You asked what the Israeli's did and I gave you several examples of what they did and are doing. Don't give me this shit about I didn't answer your question. It's there for all to see.

Say, how do you feel about ISIS?

They're a CIA creation.

Do you love them just as much as the Palestinians?

I don't give a shit about either. Why do you support people who shoot at others fishing?

Just curious about how many of your kind are around.

I wouldn't talk, you're no fuckin' prize!

 

[Billo_Really]

You're ignorant of the methodology of your false claim. As you have learned in the past, your ESTIMATE is based on a survey of a limited number of people. For instance, has anyone in your family died a violent death? Yes, five people. Then they ask someone else who also say five people but, they're the same five people.

The figures from Ray are from body counts. Itemized.

Grow up, you just look foolish.

Are you an epidemiologist? Then shut your fucking mouth! You don't know what you're talking about. The IBC only counted people named in the media, not deaths that were unnamed, or targeted assassinations, or people showing up at morgues. The IBC is also tied to the Iraq government, which makes it tied to the US military, who has a definite bias in showing the death count as low as possible.

 

[Billo_Really]

Clearly, you've got a lot of slogans you've never thought about rattling around in your head, and that's why you see the world as a bunch of one liners. Maybe someday you'll become interested enough in the issue to try to understand it.

How convenient.

I specifically addressed each point you were making.

Yer welcome!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You're right, I didn't give you a direct answer, I gave you several of them. You asked what the Israeli's did and I gave you several examples of what they did and are doing. Don't give me this shit about I didn't answer your question. It's there for all to see.

Yes, and what all see are generalizations and not specifics. So give me one situation where Israel attacked the Palestinians for no reason at all, and then we can examine the entire event so I can show you how FOS you are and how Israel was only responding to an aggressive action by the terrorists that you love so much.

They're a CIA creation.

I don't give a shit about either. Why do you support people who shoot at others fishing?

WTF does this have to do with fishing?

 

[Papageorgio]

I didn't change a thing, the poor were being bombed by both parties for decades. From Hoover to today, to claim either was more responsible is partisan bullshit and that is all you have.

We were talking about 9/11 and Iraq, not everything under the fucking sun. Start a thread if you want to talk about that shit. Yes, you were trying to change the subject.

You didn't limit it to 911, you made a broad idiotic statement and I countered.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Clearly, you've got a lot of slogans you've never thought about rattling around in your head, and that's why you see the world as a bunch of one liners. Maybe someday you'll become interested enough in the issue to try to understand it.

How convenient.

I specifically addressed each point you were making.

Yer welcome!

You addressed each point but had nothing to say because you appear to know nothing but a few slogans you haven't even thought about. You are obviously one of these people who begins with an opinion and then works back to try to justify it, otherwise known as a bigot.

 

[Markle]

Are you an epidemiologist? Then shut your fucking mouth! You don't know what you're talking about. The IBC only counted people named in the media, not deaths that were unnamed, or targeted assassinations, or people showing up at morgues. The IBC is also tied to the Iraq government, which makes it tied to the US military, who has a definite bias in showing the death count as low as possible.

So you know your "information" is NOT true but post it as FAKE NEWS anyway. I'd call that a lie, which is fine, we expect nothing more from you and you work hard to maintain that reputation.