Whose and which ten commandments?

[emilynghiem]

I, for one, disagree with the Jewish version.....after all, "I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt" doesn't actually command you to do anything.....

After freeing the slaves from Egypt, God does not even make a commandment against slavery

God is delivering commandments to these former slaves and he does not even mention that what was done to them was wrong

[MENTION=20321]rightwinger[/MENTION] [MENTION=37754]Hollie[/MENTION]
"Coveting thy neighbor's labor" = involuntary servitude.

 

[rightwinger]

I, for one, disagree with the Jewish version.....after all, "I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt" doesn't actually command you to do anything.....

After freeing the slaves from Egypt, God does not even make a commandment against slavery

God is delivering commandments to these former slaves and he does not even mention that what was done to them was wrong

[MENTION=20321]rightwinger[/MENTION] [MENTION=37754]Hollie[/MENTION]
"Coveting thy neighbor's labor" = involuntary servitude.

Was that a joke?

'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

 

[emilynghiem]

All or none. If we choose to put ourselves under the Law we don't get to pick the ones we like and dismiss the rest. There are over 600.
Those laws were given to a specific group of people, for a specific time. They demand judgement and sentence.

Romans 9:31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal.

The same happens in our society if we break the law. Court, judgment, sentence, prison. Even God was more in favor of mercy than the Law.

You cannot work your way to heaven. Good works do not cancel out bad ones. Here is why:

Don't obey the 10 commandments to be a good person. Do good for Christ's sake. He already fulfilled the Law for us, so, concentrate on thanking Jesus for taking your place in court, and put your faith in the one who gave God the ability to dismiss your case. Do this:

Galatians 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

The bible was written by men, it reflects man’s ignorance, fear, and hate – it is completely devoid of authority save that of in the context of religious dogma, consequently citing the bible is meaningless.

[MENTION=37754]Hollie[/MENTION] [MENTION=20321]rightwinger[/MENTION] [MENTION=29614]C_Clayton_Jones[/MENTION]

Even if the laws are flawed (like both the Bible and the Constitution are criticized for condoning or endorsing slavery until changed later) they can still be used to "hold people to their laws and words" for people who DO invoke authority and take responsibiity this way.

1. What I find makes a difference:

Where people HAVE committed to follow the Bible in the spirit of Christ or conscience,
then I find that by rebuking them using the Bible and IN the SPIRIT of Christ,
then those people RESPOND.

If this is their law, and their language they committed to follow,
then ESPECIALLY where they FAIL to follow it,
then REBUKING them in THAT AUTHORITY facilitates correction!

This is in keeping with Matthew 18:15-20.
A Lutheran Pastor explained how he has kept his church operating following this passage,
resolving all conflicts between members by citing Scripture and invoking the spirit of the law that all their members committed to abide by and submit to as EQUALS.

So even if they are doing wrongful things AGAINST their own beliefs and their own Bible, if that is their authority, they respond to corrections using it, in that spirit (not against it).

2. Where this process fails:
a. one or more of the persons in the conflict
either refuses to forgive and otherwise is not enforcing laws in the spirit of Christ
(where attempts to point out flaws turns to divisive rejection, not mutual correction)
b. the person addressed is not under that law but under some other principle, so they are better rebuked using whatever principles do address them with personal accountability
c. there is a third party or external influence exerting pressure on the conflict
so that the people involved cannot solve it without also addressing the other factor(s)

Just because a rebuke fails doesn't mean the process doesn't work.

There are other factors that prevent people from responding to corrections.
On the whole, as long as I am forgiving and following the same spirit, it tends to work.

But as in (b) I need to address people using the language or laws that speak to them.
and (c) if there are external third-party influences or biases, that needs to be resolved too.
As long as people agree to work mutually with forgiveness and correction, all these factors can be overcome until or unless the process hits a wall with someone unwilling to forgive.

 

[emilynghiem]

Was that a joke?

'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

NOR ANYTHING That is your neighbor's.

We had to evolve socially, politically, and economically to start recognizing
people's labor as belonging to them.

We still do not value people equally and are still going through this now, RW!
We still have both literal "slave labor" today because of underdeveloped countries
that depend on child labor and slave labor.

We still have political slavery where
people do not realize that taxing people without consent
is hoarding people's labor under terms we didn't agree to work and pay for.

Our Constitutional laws have evolved to prohibit "involuntary servitude"
and yet this is still happening. People might as well be treating the law "as a joke."

So it is a continual process of perfecting the laws and our perception of equal justice.

RW we do not recognize political beliefs as equally protected,
we do not recognize beliefs equally but have biased for and against
Christian and Atheists, pro and anti gay, prochoice and prolife,
gun control and gun rights, etc. etc. etc.

Our laws SAY equal protection, which supposedly includes
religious freedom and prohibits discrimination by creed.

Still not there yet.

 

[emilynghiem]

1. By receiving Christ and agreeing to follow the spirit of the laws of truth and justice by conscience, then whatever laws you commit to follow become your authority or standard.

You can enforce Constitutional laws, Buddhist teachings, natural laws, etc. in the same spirit of Christ, and make rebukes/corrections in the spirit of truth to establish justice.

2. As for the Commandments in the Bible, "all the laws and prophets" hang on the two Great Commandments, which Christ fulfills and joins as one:
To love one another as Christ loves us, is to live by unconditional love as God's love.

So this joins the "love of God" with the "love of man" as one in Christ Jesus.
This completes the trinity and makes humanity one with God in spirit through Christ.

In secular terms, this reconciles body/mind/spirit in harmony collectively, from the individual level of man to the collective level of humanity universally so there is peace.

ALL other laws given to man are fulfilled in this spirit of
love of truth, love of justice, love of humanity as one.

There is no conflict between Jews or Gentiles, male or female, rich or poor, left or right, or any other man-made groupings. All serve a purpose in the process of seeking equal justice.

I, for one, disagree with the Jewish version.....after all, "I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt" doesn't actually command you to do anything.....

The bible God gave the ten commandments to the Jews. the christains later co oped it as their own an to fit their agenda

"Most people have heard of the so-called ‘Ten Commandments’, but what they don't know is that 'Ten Commandments' is a mistranslation. In the original Hebrew, ‘Aseret HaDibrot' correctly translates as ‘Ten Statements’. The ten statements that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai carved in two stone tablets, are a summary of the 613 commandments.

One of the 613 commandments given to the Jewish people was to become ‘a light unto the nations’ (Isaiah 42:6, 49:6), and as part of fulfilling this task they have preserved in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 56a - 60b) the universal code of seven Noachide commandments, which is a basic program of ethical monotheism. This is the basis of civilization, for “He did not create it as a wasteland, but formed it to be inhabited.” (Isaiah 45:18).

People who observe the seven commandments of the biblical Covenant of Noah are considered by Orthodox Rabbis to be ‘Righteous Gentiles’ and are known as Noachides or Bnai Noach in Hebrew, both these terms mean ‘descendants of Noah."

 

[rightwinger]

Was that a joke?

'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

NOR ANYTHING That is your neighbor's.

We had to evolve socially, politically, and economically to start recognizing
people's labor as belonging to them.

We still do not value people equally and are still going through this now, RW!
We still have both literal "slave labor" today because of underdeveloped countries
that depend on child labor and slave labor.

We still have political slavery where
people do not realize that taxing people without consent
is hoarding people's labor under terms we didn't agree to work and pay for.

Our Constitutional laws have evolved to prohibit "involuntary servitude"
and yet this is still happening. People might as well be treating the law "as a joke."

So it is a continual process of perfecting the laws and our perception of equal justice.

RW we do not recognize political beliefs as equally protected,
we do not recognize beliefs equally but have biased for and against
Christian and Atheists, pro and anti gay, prochoice and prolife,
gun control and gun rights, etc. etc. etc.

Our laws SAY equal protection, which supposedly includes
religious freedom and prohibits discrimination by creed.

Still not there yet.

God blew it on the Ten Commandments

He had a chance to condemn slavery and he didn't do it
He also should have condemned monarchy's and let it be known that all are equal in his eyes

 

[Luddly Neddite]

After freeing the slaves from Egypt, God does not even make a commandment against slavery

God is delivering commandments to these former slaves and he does not even mention that what was done to them was wrong

[MENTION=20321]rightwinger[/MENTION] [MENTION=37754]Hollie[/MENTION]
"Coveting thy neighbor's labor" = involuntary servitude.

Was that a joke?

'You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor's.'

Nothing worse to christians than coveting what belongs to the guy next door.

Even if its another human being.

 

[amrchaos]

Well, would it not be the Jewish 10 commandments because the 10 commandments are from Judaism?


P.S.---What is the significant difference between the 3 sets? They basically say the same thing.

 

[amrchaos]

so, apparently there are really only nine commandments.....

Actually, there are a lot more. The first "10" were suppose to be the easiest to remember.

 

[amrchaos]

Hey, I just thought of a brillant idea!!!


Instead of having the classical "10 commandments"--how about the 10 "Rules to live by"

And we take these rules from Judaism?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

All or none. If we choose to put ourselves under the Law we don't get to pick the ones we like and dismiss the rest. There are over 600.
Those laws were given to a specific group of people, for a specific time. They demand judgement and sentence.


The same happens in our society if we break the law. Court, judgment, sentence, prison. Even God was more in favor of mercy than the Law.

You cannot work your way to heaven. Good works do not cancel out bad ones. Here is why:

Don't obey the 10 commandments to be a good person. Do good for Christ's sake. He already fulfilled the Law for us, so, concentrate on thanking Jesus for taking your place in court, and put your faith in the one who gave God the ability to dismiss your case. Do this:

The bible was written by men, it reflects man’s ignorance, fear, and hate – it is completely devoid of authority save that of in the context of religious dogma, consequently citing the bible is meaningless.

Even if the laws are flawed (like both the Bible and the Constitution are criticized for condoning or endorsing slavery until changed later) they can still be used to "hold people to their laws and words" for people who DO invoke authority and take responsibiity this way.

This is known as a false comparison fallacy, and consequently the argument fails, as two dissimilar things are being compared, the bible and the US Constitution.

Unlike the bible, the Constitution and its case law seek out justice to ensure a consistent application of the law, where the resulting jurisprudence provides guidance to jurists as they abide by, and apply, the rule of law.

As Justice Kennedy explained in Lawrence:

Had those who drew and ratified the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth Amendment or the Fourteenth Amendment known the components of liberty in its manifold possibilities, they might have been more specific. They did not presume to have this insight. They knew times can blind us to certain truths and later generations can see that laws once thought necessary and proper in fact serve only to oppress. As the Constitution endures, persons in every generation can invoke its principles in their own search for greater freedom.

LAWRENCE V. TEXAS

The bible is devoid of such a capacity, it’s subjective and capricious, where there is no consensus as to its meaning, the many Christian denominations are proof of that – from the Catholic Church to Pentecostal ministries and all the factions in between, the bible and its religious dogma are whatever its adherents wish and perceive it to be.

Indeed, the bible remains today the source of much ignorance and hate, many using it as justification to deny gay Americans their civil liberties – in violation of the very Constitution that safeguards their liberty to practice their religions of ignorance and hate.