Whose and which ten commandments?

[Avatar4321]

They are the same commandments people. They are just numbered differently and divided in different spots.

You sound like my client who thought it was a good idea to argue to the jury that the police are lying about him dealing drugs to them because baggies were blue and not green. I wish I could say I am making that up.

 

[Avatar4321]

All or none. If we choose to put ourselves under the Law we don't get to pick the ones we like and dismiss the rest. There are over 600.
Those laws were given to a specific group of people, for a specific time. They demand judgement and sentence.

Romans 9:31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal.

The same happens in our society if we break the law. Court, judgment, sentence, prison. Even God was more in favor of mercy than the Law.

You cannot work your way to heaven. Good works do not cancel out bad ones. Here is why:



Don't obey the 10 commandments to be a good person. Do good for Christ's sake. He already fulfilled the Law for us, so, concentrate on thanking Jesus for taking your place in court, and put your faith in the one who gave God the ability to dismiss your case. Do this:

Galatians 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

"Love your neighbor as yourself." That's a good one. That should have gotten more face time with the gods.

Help me out here, TiR. So I'm conflicted on how to handle a domestic issue, and the absolutely universal law of God is not making it clear how I should proceed.

Here's my conflict, from Leviticus 25:45-46
________________________________________
"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession."
_______________________________________

Here's my problem. One of the 4 year neighborhood children of the heathens around me actually has converted to Judaism. Now, technically the child is still heathen, at least by blood. Can I buy this child anyway, or does the conversion override the bloodline issue? I suspect that a 4 year old isn't old enough to make such a decision regarding their status, so I can buy and enslave him anyway.

Can you enlighten me on how the bible resolves such a conflict?

Thanks

If you think it's such a good command, why don't you follow it?

 

[Indeependent]

All or none. If we choose to put ourselves under the Law we don't get to pick the ones we like and dismiss the rest. There are over 600.
Those laws were given to a specific group of people, for a specific time. They demand judgement and sentence.

Romans 9:31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal.

The same happens in our society if we break the law. Court, judgment, sentence, prison. Even God was more in favor of mercy than the Law.

You cannot work your way to heaven. Good works do not cancel out bad ones. Here is why:



Don't obey the 10 commandments to be a good person. Do good for Christ's sake. He already fulfilled the Law for us, so, concentrate on thanking Jesus for taking your place in court, and put your faith in the one who gave God the ability to dismiss your case. Do this:

Galatians 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

"Love your neighbor as yourself." That's a good one. That should have gotten more face time with the gods.

Help me out here, TiR. So I'm conflicted on how to handle a domestic issue, and the absolutely universal law of God is not making it clear how I should proceed.

Here's my conflict, from Leviticus 25:45-46
________________________________________
"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession."
_______________________________________

Here's my problem. One of the 4 year neighborhood children of the heathens around me actually has converted to Judaism. Now, technically the child is still heathen, at least by blood. Can I buy this child anyway, or does the conversion override the bloodline issue? I suspect that a 4 year old isn't old enough to make such a decision regarding their status, so I can buy and enslave him anyway.

Can you enlighten me on how the bible resolves such a conflict?

Thanks

The chain of Rabbinical Ordination required to supervise the purchasing of a servant was severed after the destruction of the 2nd Temple.
The kid will decide upon his 18th birthday if he wants to continue to be a full fledged ****.

 

[The Irish Ram]

All or none. If we choose to put ourselves under the Law we don't get to pick the ones we like and dismiss the rest. There are over 600.
Those laws were given to a specific group of people, for a specific time. They demand judgement and sentence.

Romans 9:31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal.

The same happens in our society if we break the law. Court, judgment, sentence, prison. Even God was more in favor of mercy than the Law.

You cannot work your way to heaven. Good works do not cancel out bad ones. Here is why:



Don't obey the 10 commandments to be a good person. Do good for Christ's sake. He already fulfilled the Law for us, so, concentrate on thanking Jesus for taking your place in court, and put your faith in the one who gave God the ability to dismiss your case. Do this:

Galatians 5:14 For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

"Love your neighbor as yourself." That's a good one. That should have gotten more face time with the gods.

Help me out here, TiR. So I'm conflicted on how to handle a domestic issue, and the absolutely universal law of God is not making it clear how I should proceed.

Here's my conflict, from Leviticus 25:45-46
________________________________________
"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession."
_______________________________________

Here's my problem. One of the 4 year neighborhood children of the heathens around me actually has converted to Judaism. Now, technically the child is still heathen, at least by blood. Can I buy this child anyway, or does the conversion override the bloodline issue? I suspect that a 4 year old isn't old enough to make such a decision regarding their status, so I can buy and enslave him anyway.

Can you enlighten me on how the bible resolves such a conflict?

Thanks

Yes, I can. Since God made the Garden for His children, and there were no slaves there, I can only give you examples of how God handles our actions. Bondmen and maids were indentured servants. They sold themselves hopefully into a better circumstance. If you owned slaves you were held responsible for their care. But since God didn't create the practice, I wouldn't participate if I were you. If you do then here is the Biblical criteria for their treatment:

Treat them like members of your own family. Provide for them. And if no son lives to inherit your wealth, then leave everything you own to your oldest, most loyal of your servants.

Your neighbors may appreciate an invitation to a kosher BBQ though...

 

[Hollie]

All or none. If we choose to put ourselves under the Law we don't get to pick the ones we like and dismiss the rest. There are over 600.
Those laws were given to a specific group of people, for a specific time. They demand judgement and sentence.


The same happens in our society if we break the law. Court, judgment, sentence, prison. Even God was more in favor of mercy than the Law.

You cannot work your way to heaven. Good works do not cancel out bad ones. Here is why:



Don't obey the 10 commandments to be a good person. Do good for Christ's sake. He already fulfilled the Law for us, so, concentrate on thanking Jesus for taking your place in court, and put your faith in the one who gave God the ability to dismiss your case. Do this:

"Love your neighbor as yourself." That's a good one. That should have gotten more face time with the gods.

Help me out here, TiR. So I'm conflicted on how to handle a domestic issue, and the absolutely universal law of God is not making it clear how I should proceed.

Here's my conflict, from Leviticus 25:45-46
________________________________________
"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession."
_______________________________________

Here's my problem. One of the 4 year neighborhood children of the heathens around me actually has converted to Judaism. Now, technically the child is still heathen, at least by blood. Can I buy this child anyway, or does the conversion override the bloodline issue? I suspect that a 4 year old isn't old enough to make such a decision regarding their status, so I can buy and enslave him anyway.

Can you enlighten me on how the bible resolves such a conflict?

Thanks

Yes, I can. Since God made the Garden for His children, and there were no slaves there, I can only give you examples of how God handles our actions. Bondmen and maids were indentured servants. They sold themselves hopefully into a better circumstance. If you owned slaves you were held responsible for their care. But since God didn't create the practice, I wouldn't participate if I were you. If you do then here is the Biblical criteria for their treatment:

Treat them like members of your own family. Provide for them. And if no son lives to inherit your wealth, then leave everything you own to your oldest, most loyal of your servants.

Your neighbors may appreciate an invitation to a kosher BBQ though...

I can agree it's convenient (and probably a requirement), to ignore those parts of the bibles that don't conform to your expectations.

What other parts of the bibles do you write-out of the bibles?

 

[Hollie]

All or none. If we choose to put ourselves under the Law we don't get to pick the ones we like and dismiss the rest. There are over 600.
Those laws were given to a specific group of people, for a specific time. They demand judgement and sentence.


The same happens in our society if we break the law. Court, judgment, sentence, prison. Even God was more in favor of mercy than the Law.

You cannot work your way to heaven. Good works do not cancel out bad ones. Here is why:



Don't obey the 10 commandments to be a good person. Do good for Christ's sake. He already fulfilled the Law for us, so, concentrate on thanking Jesus for taking your place in court, and put your faith in the one who gave God the ability to dismiss your case. Do this:

"Love your neighbor as yourself." That's a good one. That should have gotten more face time with the gods.

Help me out here, TiR. So I'm conflicted on how to handle a domestic issue, and the absolutely universal law of God is not making it clear how I should proceed.

Here's my conflict, from Leviticus 25:45-46
________________________________________
"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession."
_______________________________________

Here's my problem. One of the 4 year neighborhood children of the heathens around me actually has converted to Judaism. Now, technically the child is still heathen, at least by blood. Can I buy this child anyway, or does the conversion override the bloodline issue? I suspect that a 4 year old isn't old enough to make such a decision regarding their status, so I can buy and enslave him anyway.

Can you enlighten me on how the bible resolves such a conflict?

Thanks

If you think it's such a good command, why don't you follow it?

Like so many religionists, I'm selective about the parts of the religion that I follow.

 

[emilynghiem]

[MENTION=48060]guno[/MENTION]

1. These seem consistent in spirit to me, I see very little difference to haggle over.

Also note that the Constitutionalist may be held to the 10 articles of the Bill of Rights and the 10 articles in the Code of Ethics for Govt Service.

What is important is to hold people to the laws they ascribe to; so this differs for each person. People accept corrections and rebuke better as long as you use the system the commit to by conscience. Buddhists by their Buddhist precepts, Hindus and Muslims by theirs, nontheists by science or standards they believe in, they are responsible for those.

2. By the SPIRIT of the laws, I find it more effective to hold people to the TYPE of justice they believe in: retributive justice or restorative justice. I find it disastrous to apply the wrong type of justice to people who respond to the other. Instead of projecting the kind of law WE believe in, we should make sure people respond to the peer group or law they commit to follow so it is enforced effectively. the wrong system will not have this effect.

3. The spirit of the Bible laws is rooted in the
Two Great Commandments and the New Commandment in John 13:34
These correspond to the Trinity, and all other laws/prophets come from that.

1. to love God with all our heart mind and soul
3. to love our neighbor as ourselves
2. to love (and forgive) one another as Jesus or God loves us ie restorative justice with
unconditional love not conditioned on rewarding good and punishing bad by "retribution"

The point being is that if we follow the Spirit of the laws first
love of truth
love of justice
love of humanity
then that spirit also fulfills the letter of the law.

but if we attach ourselves to the letter of the law, and lose the spirit, we violate both.
(picking apart difference over the "letter of the law" as with these 10 commandments
is an example of putting the letter before the spirit, to invoke division, and losing the meaning on both levels).

You hear a lot about: if we only follow the ten commandments, or , things went down hill when we took the 10 commandments out of school (this always coming from fundamentalist christian and right wing politicians).

The question is which ten commandments?

Wouldn't your think an as important directive from the all powerful "god" would not need interpretation and all would have been very clear an say same thing

http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.pdf

 

[PostmodernProph]

so, apparently there are really only nine commandments.....

 

[The Irish Ram]

"Love your neighbor as yourself." That's a good one. That should have gotten more face time with the gods.

Help me out here, TiR. So I'm conflicted on how to handle a domestic issue, and the absolutely universal law of God is not making it clear how I should proceed.

Here's my conflict, from Leviticus 25:45-46
________________________________________
"Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids. Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession."
_______________________________________

Here's my problem. One of the 4 year neighborhood children of the heathens around me actually has converted to Judaism. Now, technically the child is still heathen, at least by blood. Can I buy this child anyway, or does the conversion override the bloodline issue? I suspect that a 4 year old isn't old enough to make such a decision regarding their status, so I can buy and enslave him anyway.

Can you enlighten me on how the bible resolves such a conflict?

Thanks

Yes, I can. Since God made the Garden for His children, and there were no slaves there, I can only give you examples of how God handles our actions. Bondmen and maids were indentured servants. They sold themselves hopefully into a better circumstance. If you owned slaves you were held responsible for their care. But since God didn't create the practice, I wouldn't participate if I were you. If you do then here is the Biblical criteria for their treatment:

Treat them like members of your own family. Provide for them. And if no son lives to inherit your wealth, then leave everything you own to your oldest, most loyal of your servants.

Your neighbors may appreciate an invitation to a kosher BBQ though...

I can agree it's convenient (and probably a requirement), to ignore those parts of the bibles that don't conform to your expectations.

What other parts of the bibles do you write-out of the bibles?

The ones that don't pertain to the Gentiles, for one. It helps to know who is talking and who they are talking to, in understanding the Bible:

Galatians 2:9 James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the circumcised.

Is that Kosher enough for ya?

 

[The Irish Ram]

Did I mention that I love ham, and there is no rule preventing me from eating it?

 

[Avatar4321]

Since the 10 commandments say the same thing no matter how you number or divide them, what exactly is there to disagree about?

 

[PostmodernProph]

I, for one, disagree with the Jewish version.....after all, "I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt" doesn't actually command you to do anything.....

 

[rightwinger]

I, for one, disagree with the Jewish version.....after all, "I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt" doesn't actually command you to do anything.....

After freeing the slaves from Egypt, God does not even make a commandment against slavery

God is delivering commandments to these former slaves and he does not even mention that what was done to them was wrong

 

[Hollie]

I, for one, disagree with the Jewish version.....after all, "I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt" doesn't actually command you to do anything.....

Christianity co-opted Jewish scripture; the OT. Disagree with the OT as you like, or, remove the parts of your book that were co-opted from others.

 

[Chuckt]

I, for one, disagree with the Jewish version.....after all, "I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt" doesn't actually command you to do anything.....

We all have our own Egypt to come out of.

Webster's Bible Translation
Now all these things happened to them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

1 Corinthians 10:11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come.

 

[RandomVariable]

As chance would have it I happened to have a very excellent chat with some guy yesterday, Jeff, who said I should look into bnei noach. I have not had a chance yet. If anyone has anything to say about them I would love to hear it.

Noahide.net

The Noachide Code: The 7 Commandments of the Covenant of Noah, the universal moral code for all mankind

 

[guno]

 

[guno]

As chance would have it I happened to have a very excellent chat with some guy yesterday, Jeff, who said I should look into bnei noach. I have not had a chance yet. If anyone has anything to say about them I would love to hear it.

Noahide.net

The Noachide Code: The 7 Commandments of the Covenant of Noah, the universal moral code for all mankind

Bnei Noach |

 

[guno]

I, for one, disagree with the Jewish version.....after all, "I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt" doesn't actually command you to do anything.....

The bible God gave the ten commandments to the Jews. the christains later co oped it as their own an to fit their agenda

"Most people have heard of the so-called ‘Ten Commandments’, but what they don't know is that 'Ten Commandments' is a mistranslation. In the original Hebrew, ‘Aseret HaDibrot' correctly translates as ‘Ten Statements’. The ten statements that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai carved in two stone tablets, are a summary of the 613 commandments.

One of the 613 commandments given to the Jewish people was to become ‘a light unto the nations’ (Isaiah 42:6, 49:6), and as part of fulfilling this task they have preserved in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 56a - 60b) the universal code of seven Noachide commandments, which is a basic program of ethical monotheism. This is the basis of civilization, for “He did not create it as a wasteland, but formed it to be inhabited.” (Isaiah 45:18).

People who observe the seven commandments of the biblical Covenant of Noah are considered by Orthodox Rabbis to be ‘Righteous Gentiles’ and are known as Noachides or Bnai Noach in Hebrew, both these terms mean ‘descendants of Noah."

 

[guno]

I, for one, disagree with the Jewish version.....after all, "I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt" doesn't actually command you to do anything.....

The bible God gave the ten commandments to the Jews. the christains later co oped it as their own an to fit their agenda

"Most people have heard of the so-called ‘Ten Commandments’, but what they don't know is that 'Ten Commandments' is a mistranslation. In the original Hebrew, ‘Aseret HaDibrot' correctly translates as ‘Ten Statements’. The ten statements that Moses brought down from Mount Sinai carved in two stone tablets, are a summary of the 613 commandments.

One of the 613 commandments given to the Jewish people was to become ‘a light unto the nations’ (Isaiah 42:6, 49:6), and as part of fulfilling this task they have preserved in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 56a - 60b) the universal code of seven Noachide commandments, which is a basic program of ethical monotheism. This is the basis of civilization, for “He did not create it as a wasteland, but formed it to be inhabited.” (Isaiah 45:18).

People who observe the seven commandments of the biblical Covenant of Noah are considered by Orthodox Rabbis to be ‘Righteous Gentiles’ and are known as Noachides or Bnai Noach in Hebrew, both these terms mean ‘descendants of Noah."