who Stole the American Spirit???

[Skull Pilot]

Who do you think is responsible for the pessimism and downright defeatism in this country? If i was addressing my son, I would say he had an attitude problem.

Americans used to be known and dare I say respected for their anything is possible attitude, the attitude that won WWII, that put a man on the moon, the attitude that liberated a young country from tyranny and created what we now take for granted.

Here is a good piece from the WSJ that puts today's "dire times" in excellent perspective.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121072001228989941.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

There is no denying that the current financial morass is deep and painful. But taking the long view, there is something both startling and disturbing about the gloom that has settled over Wall Street and the country in general. In fact, looking back over the past century, it would be a stretch to rank the current problems as especially notable or dramatic. Something else is going on – namely a cultural rut of pessimism that is draining our collective energy, blinding us to possibilities, and eroding our position in the world....

Right now we have an unemployment rate of 5% and headline inflation topping 4%. We have economic growth of 0.6%, extremely low consumer confidence and weakening consumer spending, small business optimism at a 28-year low, and of course a housing market that is showing declines in excess of 20% in some parts of the country.
These are hardly statistics to celebrate, but they are a far cry from the crises of the 20th century. Next time someone compares the present to the Great Depression, stop them. Between 1929 and 1932, the Dow Jones index went to 41.22 from 380.33, a decline of 89%. Today's hang-wringing about a 20% decline in the major indices (much of it since recouped) doesn't come close....


For all the present talk of volatility, in 1973 and 1974 the economy expanded 10% in the first quarter of 1973, contracted 2.1% in the third quarter, went up 3.9% in the fourth quarter, went down 3.4% in the first quarter of 1974, then up 1.2% in the second quarter – continuing like a bouncing ball for another year.

The unemployment rate went from 4.9% in 1973 to 8.5% in 1977, and then nearly broke 10% in 1982. Meanwhile the stock market went from 1067 in January 1973 to 570 in December 1974, a drop of 46%. And there was double-digit inflation and a sharp rise in the price of oil, which represented a higher percentage of consumer spending than today.

the above are just a couple of examples( and please read the entire piece) that show it is not our situation that is bad, it is our attitude. So why don't we all stop whining and start acting like the Americans of old and start believing in ourselves again? The results would be far greater than any empty campaign promises you have been hearing.

 

[jillian]

Yeah, well... Americans also used to be known for honoring freedom and things like habeas corpus and search warrants and abiding by the Geneva Convention.

So there ya go.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Yeah, well... Americans also used to be known for honoring freedom and things like habeas corpus and search warrants and abiding by the Geneva Convention.

So there ya go.

ah so that's why everyone is whining that we are in such dire straits is it?

how come BHO isn't telling us we are unhappy because of habeas corpus and search warrants and instead he is saying how bad the economy is when, as the article from the WSJ states, it really isn't that bad.

 

[jillian]

ah so that's why everyone is whining that we are in such dire straits is it?

how come BHO isn't telling us we are unhappy because of habeas corpus and search warrants and instead he is saying how bad the economy is when, as the article from the WSJ states, it really isn't that bad.

Because the economy sucks and McCain knows nothing about economics. Cool, eh?

Of course, he can also talk about the fact that McCain doesn't know the difference between Shi'a and Sunni or the fact that he made huggy kissy with a loony who called the catholic church a, what? whore?

And your article says "There is no denying that the current financial morass is deep and painful"

So I'm not sure how that's "not so bad". Guess it depends on who's paying your bills.

 

[Ravi]

I think it's an outcome of Bush's policies. We were told for so long that any minute we could go boom from a terrorist strike and to just let Bush take care of us all...well, he hasn't done anything but make things worse, terrorism wise and economy wise. So half the country is in a funk that they were stupid enough to vote for him and the other half is in a funk that half the country was stupid enough to vote for him.

 

[BrianH]

Leaving out all policitics and economics. The American attitude has changed. We've become overeccentric perfectionists who are never satisfied with that we have. If something is not done perfectly, we're up in arms about it. The good ol' days are long gone unfortunately and I wish we could have them back. We Americans make things way more complicated than it has to be, and I don't know whether to blame it on the increase or decrease of education. People are claiming that we have it so bad and all, but they don't stop to think about the past generations. A generation that went through the great depression..., two world wars. I mean, everyone has at least one TV in their home (there are exceptions), a cell phone, a car, food to eat, a roof over their head. This nation has never had it so good, and we're still not satisfied with our situation. I agree that when you look into the politics of things, many things need changing, but IMO, Americans today have a short attention span, low morale, distrust of it's government, and no back-bone. How do we change this?

You know, after reading WWII and WWI memoirs, it amazes me of the opinion that outside countries had of the U.S. We were the big dogs, and good ones at that. We fought just wars, and people admired our courage to stand up against tyrants. If you read letters and diaries of the french or english when the Americans showed up for WWI and WWII, they often talk about the Americans walking through town. And how they were handsome, proud, and walked taller than the average man. They speak of how their hearts were filled with hope when they saw the Americans arrive. This is certainly not the case anymore. And is it our governments fault?? Or is it the people's fault for developing a completely different attitude?

I know I'm sounding quite philosophical, but I agree with Skull in that we really don't have it as bad as some people say. We've become self-destructive in nature, just waiting for something bad to happen. Sure, our country needs some tweaking hear and there, but on a whole, we're all doin pretty good. Just recently we've began seeing signs of a recession, however, any recession we have could not be as bad as past recessions, such as the Great Depression....we need to think positively for a change and quit trying to find people to blame things on. We've become a nation that throws blame around like a baseball. Anytime something happens we're looking for someone to blame and pay for it. This goes back to the perfectionist attitude IMO. Anyway, that's my rant...

 

[Skull Pilot]

Because the economy sucks and McCain knows nothing about economics. Cool, eh?

Of course, he can also talk about the fact that McCain doesn't know the difference between Shi'a and Sunni or the fact that he made huggy kissy with a loony who called the catholic church a, what? whore?

And your article says "There is no denying that the current financial morass is deep and painful"

So I'm not sure how that's "not so bad". Guess it depends on who's paying your bills.

deep and painful is a little overdone IMo but still compare today to a time with 10% unemployment, where you really had to go hungry or be cold and no it isn't that bad.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I think it's an outcome of Bush's policies. We were told for so long that any minute we could go boom from a terrorist strike and to just let Bush take care of us all...well, he hasn't done anything but make things worse, terrorism wise and economy wise. So half the country is in a funk that they were stupid enough to vote for him and the other half is in a funk that half the country was stupid enough to vote for him.

Bald face lie. We were never told we would go "boom". I love how people like dogger demand to kow why Bush did nothing in August of 2001 on a nebulous report that terrorists might strike us, no date, no specifics, no names, no plans, no idea what they might do. BUT when he acted against a terror state bent on our destruction he was a fool.

Then we have the 7 men in Florida the left keeps claiming are being railroaded. Tapes of them asking for money, training, weapons and providing targets and plans for terror attacks. Yet we are to beleive these same Liberals would not have been up in arms if 19 Muslims got arrested on September 10 2001 with out ever having done anything.

Consistancy is not your strong suit is it Ravi?

 

[AllieBaba]

Because the economy sucks and McCain knows nothing about economics. Cool, eh?

Of course, he can also talk about the fact that McCain doesn't know the difference between Shi'a and Sunni or the fact that he made huggy kissy with a loony who called the catholic church a, what? whore?

And your article says "There is no denying that the current financial morass is deep and painful"

So I'm not sure how that's "not so bad". Guess it depends on who's paying your bills.

It isn't comparable. Unless McCain went to his church for 20 years, and the guy went on a rant against the US....

 

[AllieBaba]

Leaving out all policitics and economics. The American attitude has changed. We've become overeccentric perfectionists who are never satisfied with that we have. If something is not done perfectly, we're up in arms about it. The good ol' days are long gone unfortunately and I wish we could have them back. We Americans make things way more complicated than it has to be, and I don't know whether to blame it on the increase or decrease of education. People are claiming that we have it so bad and all, but they don't stop to think about the past generations. A generation that went through the great depression..., two world wars. I mean, everyone has at least one TV in their home (there are exceptions), a cell phone, a car, food to eat, a roof over their head. This nation has never had it so good, and we're still not satisfied with our situation. I agree that when you look into the politics of things, many things need changing, but IMO, Americans today have a short attention span, low morale, distrust of it's government, and no back-bone. How do we change this?

You know, after reading WWII and WWI memoirs, it amazes me of the opinion that outside countries had of the U.S. We were the big dogs, and good ones at that. We fought just wars, and people admired our courage to stand up against tyrants. If you read letters and diaries of the french or english when the Americans showed up for WWI and WWII, they often talk about the Americans walking through town. And how they were handsome, proud, and walked taller than the average man. They speak of how their hearts were filled with hope when they saw the Americans arrive. This is certainly not the case anymore. And is it our governments fault?? Or is it the people's fault for developing a completely different attitude?

I know I'm sounding quite philosophical, but I agree with Skull in that we really don't have it as bad as some people say. We've become self-destructive in nature, just waiting for something bad to happen. Sure, our country needs some tweaking hear and there, but on a whole, we're all doin pretty good. Just recently we've began seeing signs of a recession, however, any recession we have could not be as bad as past recessions, such as the Great Depression....we need to think positively for a change and quit trying to find people to blame things on. We've become a nation that throws blame around like a baseball. Anytime something happens we're looking for someone to blame and pay for it. This goes back to the perfectionist attitude IMO. Anyway, that's my rant...

I don't think it's about perfection. It's about leftist loons who have managed to convince people that we don't deserve anything, that individuals count for nothing, and everything should be shared equally. And until it is, anyone who does well is to be looked at with suspicion, everyone is to be considered corrupt if even one person in the world is corrupt...which goes hand in hand with fudging the lines between right and wrong, which they've decided are completely subjective. There is no right, there is no wrong, there is only gray. Gray clothes, gray beliefs, gray morals, gray emotions. Happiness = stupidity, sadness=guilt, the only anger that is acceptable is anger with yourself and your own for being "bad"....and "bad" means white, healthy, happy, successful, moral, unique, Christian...in any combination.

 

[rayboyusmc]

It's about leftist loons who have managed to convince people that we don't deserve anything, that individuals count for nothing, and everything should be shared equally.

Crock of crap, Ali. Always blame someone else. Maybe that's the problem. There is no individual accountability. No conservative crackpots are to blame at all. Hmmm, funny but they have been in charge for the last 7 years, not the liberal loonies.

Maybe it's the fact that we can't discuss these issues without getting into the childish name calling.

I would bet if there were an internet back during the great depression, we would be having these same discussions about the good old days, and why the current group is a bunch of crybaby pessimists.

 

[AllieBaba]

It didn't happen in the last 7 years, wizard. It's happened progressively since the early 70s.

Figure that one out.

 

[AllieBaba]

Crock of crap, Ali. Always blame someone else. Maybe that's the problem. There is no individual accountability. No conservative crackpots are to blame at all. Hmmm, funny but they have been in charge for the last 7 years, not the liberal loonies.

Maybe it's the fact that we can't discuss these issues without getting into the childish name calling.

I would bet if there were an internet back during the great depression, we would be having these same discussions about the good old days, and why the current group is a bunch of crybaby pessimists.

No personal accountability is part of the problem...but also the refusal to hold OTHERS accountable.

Sometimes there is blame to lay, and it should be.

 

[Glori.B]

It didn't happen in the last 7 years, wizard. It's happened progressively since the early 70s.

Figure that one out.

those damn hippies!


turn on, tune in, drop out... yeah man! far out!

 

[Glori.B]

Bald face lie. We were never told we would go "boom".

well, we were told that we might!

 

[Gunny]

Yeah, well... Americans also used to be known for honoring freedom and things like habeas corpus and search warrants and abiding by the Geneva Convention.

So there ya go.

They still are. It's just a matter of whose opinion is being bought. The ones who believe in winning or the ones who hope for this Nation's downfall with their continued villification of everything we do. If there's a Republican in office, that is. A Democrap can do the same thing and it's all good.

 

[jillian]

They still are. It's just a matter of whose opinion is being bought. The ones who believe in winning or the ones who hope for this Nation's downfall with their continued villification of everything we do. If there's a Republican in office, that is. A Democrap can do the same thing and it's all good.

No. It IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION. If someone is listening to your phone calls and has no warrant, that is an ILLEGAL SEARCH.

Redefining prisoners and setting up gulags to avoid the Geneva Convention and habeas corpus mean thoserights have been impaired. THAT IS NOT OPINION.

Now I'll go cry crocodile tears for the poor widdle repubs.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No. It IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION. If someone is listening to your phone calls and has no warrant, that is an ILLEGAL SEARCH.

Redefining prisoners and setting up gulags to avoid the Geneva Convention and habeas corpus mean thoserights have been impaired. THAT IS NOT OPINION.

Now I'll go cry crocodile tears for the poor widdle repubs.

Gulags? Hardly. Thos epeople have the exact same protections and rights as regular PRISONERS of WAR. In fact they have MORE because they get to have their cases taken before courts. And they are released to go back to fighting us because whining bullshit like what you just posted.

As for listening. I is not an invasion nor a loss of rights if the Government can not use said listening against you in a court of law. And they can not. We are at WAR. In WW2 the Government OPENED and READ mail it felt was potentially dangerous. Give me a break.

Once again even if we had captured the 19 hijackers on September 10th people like you would have been belly aching, just like you do about the 7 men in Florida, that the Government ( Bush in particular) was making crap up and railroading those poor innocent Muslims.

I wonder what your opinion was on Waco? Or Ruby Ridge? I already know what it is on FLDS in Texas. You do not mind one bit when others rights are violated and denied when YOU think it is all good.

Remind me how the State of Texas is operating in good faith by refusing to recognize LEGAL, properly registered Utah Birth Certificates and has already been forced, after a month or more to admit 8 of the women they seized as minors are in fact NOT, One was 27 YEARS OLD. Another was 22 YEARS OLD. 20 more are STILL being illegally held against their will and their Constitutionally protected rights.

 

[MsWikia]

I think more so than before, we lost a lot of our values and morals. Money comes first and foremost and our focus is on the individual rather than the community.

 

[nibor]

No. It IS NOT A MATTER OF OPINION. If someone is listening to your phone calls and has no warrant, that is an ILLEGAL SEARCH.

Redefining prisoners and setting up gulags to avoid the Geneva Convention and habeas corpus mean thoserights have been impaired. THAT IS NOT OPINION.

Now I'll go cry crocodile tears for the poor widdle repubs.

Poor wittle repugs.........................you can hardly keep micro analyzing this issue by blaming only republicans...................nice try?????????