Who brought sin and death to the earth? Man, Satan or God?

[Faun]

I'm not into reading the bible. Thanks.

But possessing completley incorrect knowledge is fine?

Minor inaccuracy but substantially correct. With the New Covenant, the Old Covenant is obsolete and therefore Christians are not bound by the laws of the OT, no matter which testament contains stories of hell.

Then you're in the wrong thread since this thread is specifically about the book of Genesis.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Who brought sin and death to the earth? Man, Satan or God?

Adam and Eve have been blamed for bringing both sin and death to the earth. I have a hard time agreeing with that view.

On sin.

Some believe that Eve was first to sin when she ate of the tree of knowledge.
Some say Adam because Eve was deceived.

I see that as the second command ignored as God told A & E to reproduce in Gen 1 and that command was completely ignored.

I believe that Satan or the talking snake may have sinned first because to tempt someone to sin makes the tempter culpable and not the one deceived. Satan first or God thanks to what I say below

I also believe that that God also sinned before A & E did, through omission, as many of the consequences and benefits of eating of the tree of knowledge were withheld from A & E by God. That is easily demonstrable. Count them and see that of the many, God only spoke of one and omitted the rest.

-------------------------------------

On death.

Adam is said to have brought death to the earth through his sin but as shown above he was likely not the first sinner.

The first death that the bible speaks of is when God kills animals to make clothes for A & E.

The next death is done by God of A & E by locking away the tree of life.

It appears that God himself brought death to the earth.

---------------------------------------

Who do you think the first sinner was and who do you see as the first killer?

Regards
DL

Since God created Satan and had full fore knowledge that Satan would tempt A & E and that they would fail the temptation there is no doubt whatsoever as to who is culpable for original sin and death. God was in a position to avert everything that happened in Genesis. Instead he set it all up and then punished the victims.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

According to a rabbi friend of mine (Chabad,) prior to Moses receiving Torah humakind was bound to the 7 Noahide Laws. It's why, though no explicit code of religious laws yet existed Pharaoh, Sodom, Gomorrah, and others were punished by G-d for various offenses. So 'sin' could be said to have included anything against G-d's wishes.

Death, is as much a part of existence as everything else. Nothing G-d has made is designed to last forever. Though the figures early on lived many centuries, they eventually died regardless.

Everything that is, is the result of G-d.

 

[GreatestIam]

[

Christians are no longer bound by the Old Testament laws of killing and sacrifice, etc. under the Old Covenant. With Jesus ultimate sacrifice came the New Covenant with only two great commandments: Love God and Love thy neighbour, which of course means no killing, or stealing, or adultery, etc. So, you can all stop quoting the barbaric laws of the OT and applying them to today's world. [/QUOTE]

It is really silly to think that God would end the practice of human sacrifice by having one last big on for the Gipper.

Jesus often referred to the O T and it, laws and he also initiated the most barbaric torture of hell so do not make your wimpy Rome created Jesus a nice clean God. If you look at his laws, they are not much better than what his genocidal son murdering father offered and the should be rejected just as soundly.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4QXOgVfY9k&feature=player_embedded]Jesus Christ: Madman or Something Worse? - YouTube[/ame]

We can never come to a conclusion about Jesus' reality or historicity but we can determine if his policies are worthy and moral.

If you want to chat on that, his divorce law is likely the most immoral as it is anti-love.

Care to argue for your Jesus?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Oy! Adam and Eve engages in sexual relations BEFORE the fruity thing...
Genesis 3:16...[SIC] who was with her [SIC]...a subtle Biblical reference to sex as it's obvious from the context of this verse that Adam was in ber presence.

Genesis 3:14...God curses the Serpent

Genesis 3:16...God tells Eve he will increase her travail while giving birth; how would this upset Eve unless she had ALREADY given birth with at least SOME level of discomfort.

Genesis 3:17...God curses the ground.

Nowhere does God curse either Adam OR Eve.

That was after the fruity thing of Gen 3; 6.

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

Satans lie to Eve was the first sin.

What lie?

The one of dying?

She did not die that day.

I see God as lying by omission before the snake spoke.

Eve knew of one consequence only. How many were there and why did God not give full disclosure?

Regards
DL

 

[Indeependent]

[

Christians are no longer bound by the Old Testament laws of killing and sacrifice, etc. under the Old Covenant. With Jesus ultimate sacrifice came the New Covenant with only two great commandments: Love God and Love thy neighbour, which of course means no killing, or stealing, or adultery, etc. So, you can all stop quoting the barbaric laws of the OT and applying them to today's world.

It is really silly to think that God would end the practice of human sacrifice by having one last big on for the Gipper.

Jesus often referred to the O T and it, laws and he also initiated the most barbaric torture of hell so do not make your wimpy Rome created Jesus a nice clean God. If you look at his laws, they are not much better than what his genocidal son murdering father offered and the should be rejected just as soundly.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4QXOgVfY9k&feature=player_embedded]Jesus Christ: Madman or Something Worse? - YouTube[/ame]

We can never come to a conclusion about Jesus' reality or historicity but we can determine if his policies are worthy and moral.

If you want to chat on that, his divorce law is likely the most immoral as it is anti-love.

Care to argue for your Jesus?

Regards
DL[/QUOTE]

How do you think the Priests and Levites ate during Temple Duty?
I don't know what your concept of "Sacrifice" (another in a long series of poor word choices for Korh-Bahn, which actually means "Approach") is, but if you go to McDonald's or eat meat or poultry at home, you are basically eating a slughtered animal that has been cooked.

I terms of human sacrifice, what are you referring to?

BTW, I believe Christians are anticipating the Third Temple...Why?

 

[GISMYS]

Another little man trying to fight and argue with ALMIGHTY GOD!! What could be more pathetic?? more ignorant??

 

[pacer]

It is really silly to think that God would end the practice of human sacrifice by having one last big on for the Gipper.

The old covenant was ratified with blood. What is the blood of the new covenant? Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Hebrews 10:29. How do we show that we accept the new covenant? Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25.

Christians have a relationship with God, and our relationship is on the basis of the new covenant, not the old. In the new covenant, God gives some commands and makes some promises, and those promises have already begun to be fulfilled. The Holy Spirit is given to us not only to transform our hearts but also as a down payment of greater blessings to come (2 Corinthians 1:22). Just as the old covenant was made before all the promises were delivered, so also the new covenant has been established before all its promises are completely given.

The new covenant was ratified through the blood of Jesus Christ. Not only did his death pay for our sins, it also ended the old covenant and began the new. When we drink the wine in commemoration of Jesus’ death, we show our acceptance of the new covenant, including the forgiveness that is given because of his shed blood.

Jesus and the New Covenant | Grace Communion International

 

[GreatestIam]

Who say they never could?? Perhaps they were too young when they were first created? The Bible doesn't say. Nor does the Bible put a time frame on how long one must wait to be "fruitful and multiplying," which they did. Nor does the Bible indicate how long they were in the Garden of Eden ... perhaps they weren't there long enough to procreate.

As far as your assessment of Satan's deceptions, Satan was not human. His sins did not bring death to humans. It was Eve's sin which did that.

I say they could not till after they ate of the tree of knowledge as they had no desire to without the knowledge of good and evil. Sex and reproduction have good and evil aspects and they did not have that knowledge.

Eve had no free will while under Satan's influence.

She could not fight the power that God gave Satan to use against her.

He even admits she was deceived.

Regards
DL

Although she was deceived, it still remained her choice to take the fruit, which she knew went against G-d's wishes. People are responsible for their actions, regardless of the influence.

As far as them being fruitful and multiplying, they were. There are no references to timeframe; either to how long they were in the garden or to how long they waited to have children. Furthermore, unlike G-d's displeasure with them disobediently eating from the Tree of Knowledge, G-d does not demonstrate any displeasure with the timeframe with which they procreated. There is simply no Biblical evidence to support that assertion.

There was no time frame given but we know that they could not and did not till after they ate of the tree of knowledge and discovered they were naked. The were too innocent to procreate before that point in time.

If a Jew, then listen to this Rabbi explain that to you. She is quite good actually.

In the Room with Avivah Zornberg | On Being

To Eve.
A deceived choice means that she was not choosing what she wanted.

You seem to think that we can fight God's power that Satan yields. Is your God's power that useless, --- even as God says Satan can deceive the whole world?

Regards
DL

 

[GreatestIam]

[

Since God created Satan and had full fore knowledge that Satan would tempt A & E and that they would fail the temptation there is no doubt whatsoever as to who is culpable for original sin and death. God was in a position to avert everything that happened in Genesis. Instead he set it all up and then punished the victims.

You see 20/20.

Many think it was a set up because without original sin, there would be no need for Jesus as the savior and that savior is the one who brings in the buck from the sheep.

Even theist see the set up.

Even the Christian hymn at the beginning of this link call that sin a necessary sin and a happy fault.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXOvYn1OAL0&list=UUDXjzOeZRqLxhYaaEhWLb_A&index=9]O Necessary Sin of Adam (Does Christian Theology Need Adam & Eve?) - YouTube[/ame]

Regards
DL

 

[Bumberclyde]

God made everything.

 

[GISMYS]

I say they could not till after they ate of the tree of knowledge as they had no desire to without the knowledge of good and evil. Sex and reproduction have good and evil aspects and they did not have that knowledge.

Eve had no free will while under Satan's influence.

She could not fight the power that God gave Satan to use against her.

He even admits she was deceived.

Regards
DL

Although she was deceived, it still remained her choice to take the fruit, which she knew went against G-d's wishes. People are responsible for their actions, regardless of the influence.

As far as them being fruitful and multiplying, they were. There are no references to timeframe; either to how long they were in the garden or to how long they waited to have children. Furthermore, unlike G-d's displeasure with them disobediently eating from the Tree of Knowledge, G-d does not demonstrate any displeasure with the timeframe with which they procreated. There is simply no Biblical evidence to support that assertion.

There was no time frame given but we know that they could not and did not till after they ate of the tree of knowledge and discovered they were naked. The were too innocent to procreate before that point in time.

If a Jew, then listen to this Rabbi explain that to you. She is quite good actually.

In the Room with Avivah Zornberg | On Being

To Eve.
A deceived choice means that she was not choosing what she wanted.

You seem to think that we can fight God's power that Satan yields. Is your God's power that useless, --- even as God says Satan can deceive the whole world?

Regards
DL

God walked and talked with Adam in the garden,God gave Adam the warning about what the results would be if Adam chose to reject his command. Adam had no excuse but he tryed to blame eve and eve tryed to blame satan. How typical!!! huh?

 

[Indeependent]

It is really silly to think that God would end the practice of human sacrifice by having one last big on for the Gipper.

The old covenant was ratified with blood. What is the blood of the new covenant? Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Hebrews 10:29. How do we show that we accept the new covenant? Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25.

Christians have a relationship with God, and our relationship is on the basis of the new covenant, not the old. In the new covenant, God gives some commands and makes some promises, and those promises have already begun to be fulfilled. The Holy Spirit is given to us not only to transform our hearts but also as a down payment of greater blessings to come (2 Corinthians 1:22). Just as the old covenant was made before all the promises were delivered, so also the new covenant has been established before all its promises are completely given.

The new covenant was ratified through the blood of Jesus Christ. Not only did his death pay for our sins, it also ended the old covenant and began the new. When we drink the wine in commemoration of Jesus’ death, we show our acceptance of the new covenant, including the forgiveness that is given because of his shed blood.

Jesus and the New Covenant | Grace Communion International

Can you point to ONE verse in the Jewish Scripture that explicitly states that the OLD Covenant was established in BLOOD?

 

[GreatestIam]

According to a rabbi friend of mine (Chabad,) prior to Moses receiving Torah humakind was bound to the 7 Noahide Laws. It's why, though no explicit code of religious laws yet existed Pharaoh, Sodom, Gomorrah, and others were punished by G-d for various offenses. So 'sin' could be said to have included anything against G-d's wishes.

Death, is as much a part of existence as everything else. Nothing G-d has made is designed to last forever. Though the figures early on lived many centuries, they eventually died regardless.

Everything that is, is the result of G-d.

Speculation not backed by evidence.

You are aware I hope that Jews do not generally read scriptures literally. Right?

Jews tend not to be as foolish as Christian literalists.

RaceandHistory.com - Doubting the Story of Exodus

Regards
DL

 

[Indeependent]

The word "Sin" doea not appear in the TJS.

Ah-Vay-Rah means Trespass (knowingly disobeying God's will).
Chate means Lack (No Korh-Bahn) (Requires learning the Law)
Feh-Gah (Disgusting) Doing something in God's Face for spite.

These terms do not appear until after the Exodus from Egypt.

 

[Indeependent]

According to a rabbi friend of mine (Chabad,) prior to Moses receiving Torah humakind was bound to the 7 Noahide Laws. It's why, though no explicit code of religious laws yet existed Pharaoh, Sodom, Gomorrah, and others were punished by G-d for various offenses. So 'sin' could be said to have included anything against G-d's wishes.

Death, is as much a part of existence as everything else. Nothing G-d has made is designed to last forever. Though the figures early on lived many centuries, they eventually died regardless.

Everything that is, is the result of G-d.

Speculation not backed by evidence.

You are aware I hope that Jews do not generally read scriptures literally. Right?

Jews tend not to be as foolish as Christian literalists.

RaceandHistory.com - Doubting the Story of Exodus

Regards
DL

The seven Noachide Laws are spelled out after Noah leaves the Ark.
Typing on my iPad is a pain, so look it up.

 

[pacer]

Can you point to ONE verse in the Jewish Scripture that explicitly states that the OLD Covenant was established in BLOOD?

Jews do not believe Jesus was the son of God so their bible may be different but here is a link regarding the New Covenant:

What Does the Bible Say About New Covenant?

 

[BGriffin]

God's planning all this
After all wer'e just It's creations
So IT have full authority to everything, universe, living and non-living being

 

[GISMYS]

According to a rabbi friend of mine (Chabad,) prior to Moses receiving Torah humakind was bound to the 7 Noahide Laws. It's why, though no explicit code of religious laws yet existed Pharaoh, Sodom, Gomorrah, and others were punished by G-d for various offenses. So 'sin' could be said to have included anything against G-d's wishes.

Death, is as much a part of existence as everything else. Nothing G-d has made is designed to last forever. Though the figures early on lived many centuries, they eventually died regardless.

Everything that is, is the result of G-d.

Speculation not backed by evidence.

You are aware I hope that Jews do not generally read scriptures literally. Right?

Jews tend not to be as foolish as Christian literalists.

RaceandHistory.com - Doubting the Story of Exodus

Regards
DL

YES!!! THE JEWISH PEOPLE HAVE MADE MORE THAN THEIR SHARE OF MISTAKES. That is why they lost their nation for 2000 years and were scattered all over the world but PTL. in these last days God has given the back their nation and will bless them for all eternity!