Who—and How Many—Are the Palestinian Refugees?

[Hossfly]

blah-blah-blah

I now regret ever having voiced any sympathy whatsoever.

We have pointed out that Israel very recklessly and often quite DELIBERATELY kills random innocent Palestinians in a HUGE disproportion to Israelis. I even posted about Sabra and Shatila, where Israel sponsored the slaughter of multiple thousands of unarmed Palestinian civilians in a single day. I have posted videos showing dozens of lifeless Palestinian babies being pulled out of the wreckage of Israeli bombing. I have repeatedly questioned whether non-Jewish life means ANYTHING AT ALL to the Z's on this forum. And I have yet to hear even a murmur of empathy from the Z's for innocent non-Jews of any age and of any means of death. Literally not one of you Z's has expressed even superficial concern.

I have just had an epiphany on this subject and accordingly from now on I have a new policy.

Historically certain alleged "conflicts" have proven to be so lopsided in origin, in power, and in murderous intent that it is absurd to speak of the parties in said "conflicts" as equal belligerents, equally morally responsible for their actions. Rather its obvious that these are not conflicts at all, because one side can easily be seen to be pure unprovoked aggressors, whilst the other side consists clearly of pure victims.

IOW, although acts of violence and even atrocities may be committed by both parties, when looking at the full scope of events it becomes crystal clear that one side is purely offensive, the other purely defensive. That is, one group was sitting peacefully minding its own business and another vastly more powerful group picked a fight with them in the service of its own interests.

Sadly there have been too many of these "conflicts," but mention of a couple should serve to illustrate what I am talking about.

1) Turkish/Armenian .... not a conflict. The Armenians were pure non-aggressive victims.
2) Nazi/Jewish ............ not a conflict. The Jews were pure non-aggressive victims.
3) Zionist/Palestinian ... not a conflict. The Palestinians were/are pure non-aggressive victims.

And mama ain't gonna blame the victims any more.

That is true. The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when the Zionists went to Palestine to take over the country.

The Zionist's position was, and still is, aggressive.

The Palestinian's position was, and still is, defensive.

There can be no question about it.

You mean like all those defensive rockets from Gaza into Israel the past few days? Got it!

 

[P F Tinmore]

blah-blah-blah

I now regret ever having voiced any sympathy whatsoever.

We have pointed out that Israel very recklessly and often quite DELIBERATELY kills random innocent Palestinians in a HUGE disproportion to Israelis. I even posted about Sabra and Shatila, where Israel sponsored the slaughter of multiple thousands of unarmed Palestinian civilians in a single day. I have posted videos showing dozens of lifeless Palestinian babies being pulled out of the wreckage of Israeli bombing. I have repeatedly questioned whether non-Jewish life means ANYTHING AT ALL to the Z's on this forum. And I have yet to hear even a murmur of empathy from the Z's for innocent non-Jews of any age and of any means of death. Literally not one of you Z's has expressed even superficial concern.

I have just had an epiphany on this subject and accordingly from now on I have a new policy.

Historically certain alleged "conflicts" have proven to be so lopsided in origin, in power, and in murderous intent that it is absurd to speak of the parties in said "conflicts" as equal belligerents, equally morally responsible for their actions. Rather its obvious that these are not conflicts at all, because one side can easily be seen to be pure unprovoked aggressors, whilst the other side consists clearly of pure victims.

IOW, although acts of violence and even atrocities may be committed by both parties, when looking at the full scope of events it becomes crystal clear that one side is purely offensive, the other purely defensive. That is, one group was sitting peacefully minding its own business and another vastly more powerful group picked a fight with them in the service of its own interests.

Sadly there have been too many of these "conflicts," but mention of a couple should serve to illustrate what I am talking about.

1) Turkish/Armenian .... not a conflict. The Armenians were pure non-aggressive victims.
2) Nazi/Jewish ............ not a conflict. The Jews were pure non-aggressive victims.
3) Zionist/Palestinian ... not a conflict. The Palestinians were/are pure non-aggressive victims.

And mama ain't gonna blame the victims any more.

That is true. The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when the Zionists went to Palestine to take over the country.

The Zionist's position was, and still is, aggressive.

The Palestinian's position was, and still is, defensive.

There can be no question about it.

You mean like all those defensive rockets from Gaza into Israel the past few days? Got it!

Indeed, they are fired into settlements like Sderot that was built on the ruins of the cleansed Palestinian village of Najd.

 

[docmauser1]

Indeed, they are fired into settlements like Sderot that was built on the ruins of the cleansed Palestinian village of Najd.

Arab settling activity doesn't stop, does it?

 

[amity1844]

At the same time you will find that every race on this earth has about the same percentage of Y chromosome haplotypes. It is part of our genetic make up as Homo Sapiens. The telling aspect is in the mitochondrial DNA that distinguishes the racial character and lineage of a person. The Jews all have a mitochondrial DNA pattern that is as distinct as fingerprints from that of the Palestinians.

You are trying to confuse people by pretending you know something about genetics. You DO NOT. Let's let all these good PhD. geneticists speak for their own data and the conclusions it leads them toward.

 

[amity1844]

3) Zionist/Palestinian ... not a conflict. The Palestinians were/are pure non-aggressive victims.

To even dream of this lunacy is a sign of mental illness, and complete vacuum of facts or reality. Please stop discussing this topic, you are making the pro-arab side look incredibly stupid.

Can you dispute what I am saying?

Because I believe it is accurate.

Palestinians did nothing to provoke Zionist aggression, they simply inhabited their own land for millenia. Zionist aggression was initiated against them in the service of Zionist ends, to take possession of the land.

Ergo any actions undertaken by Palestinians subsequently have been legitimate acts of self-defense.

 

[docmauser1]

Palestinians did nothing to provoke Zionist aggression, they simply inhabited their own land for millenia. Zionist aggression was initiated against them in the service of Zionist ends, to take possession of the land. Ergo any actions undertaken by Palestinians subsequently have been legitimate acts of self-defense.

Drivel.

 

[amity1844]

OK, then, I'll bite.

What did Palestinians do to cause Jews to come from all over the world and dispense an ass kicking that resulted in them being expelled and dispossessed?

 

[docmauser1]

OK, then, I'll bite.

Bite what?

What did Palestinians do to cause Jews to come from all over the world and dispense an ass kicking that resulted in them being expelled and dispossessed?

According to our honorable P F Tinmore palistanians didn't lose anything, so, let's dispense with this drivel.

 

[Phoenall]

At the same time you will find that every race on this earth has about the same percentage of Y chromosome haplotypes. It is part of our genetic make up as Homo Sapiens. The telling aspect is in the mitochondrial DNA that distinguishes the racial character and lineage of a person. The Jews all have a mitochondrial DNA pattern that is as distinct as fingerprints from that of the Palestinians.

You are trying to confuse people by pretending you know something about genetics. You DO NOT. Let's let all these good PhD. geneticists speak for their own data and the conclusions it leads them toward.

I know a lot more that you do about genetics being a breeder of animals. And I don't use 30 year old scientific reports to back up my words. The latest scientific understanding is that mitochondrial DNA can be traced back to 2,000 B.C. and shows that the Palestinians that have been tested do not carry any of the Jewish genetic fingerprints. In fact the Cohen Gene is missing completely from all the samples.

 

[Phoenall]

3) Zionist/Palestinian ... not a conflict. The Palestinians were/are pure non-aggressive victims.

To even dream of this lunacy is a sign of mental illness, and complete vacuum of facts or reality. Please stop discussing this topic, you are making the pro-arab side look incredibly stupid.

Can you dispute what I am saying?

Because I believe it is accurate.

Palestinians did nothing to provoke Zionist aggression, they simply inhabited their own land for millenia. Zionist aggression was initiated against them in the service of Zionist ends, to take possession of the land.

Ergo any actions undertaken by Palestinians subsequently have been legitimate acts of self-defense.

The only Palestinians until 1960 were the Jews and the term was a profanity spewed out by arab muslims. Even the arab muslim history shows that they are recent arrivals to the lands of Palestine, and they had to change the rules of citizenship to take this into account. Prior to 1948 a person had to be born in a nation or lived there for an extended period of time to claim the right of citizenship, for the arab muslims it was 2 years unproven occupancy in the area.

Do explain the riots in Hebron in 1929 when the arab muslims went on the rampaged and mass murdered unarmed Jewish students.
Firing illegal chemical/biological weapons at children is not self defence it is aggressive terrorism illegal under the Geneva conventions and International law.

 

[Phoenall]

OK, then, I'll bite.

What did Palestinians do to cause Jews to come from all over the world and dispense an ass kicking that resulted in them being expelled and dispossessed?

They LIED, CHEATED and MASS MURDERED THE JEWS and would not abide by the treaties that had made with the LoN.

 

[amity1844]

Can you dispute what I am saying?

Because I believe it is accurate.

Palestinians did nothing to provoke Zionist aggression, they simply inhabited their own land for millenia. Zionist aggression was initiated against them in the service of Zionist ends, to take possession of the land.

Ergo any actions undertaken by Palestinians subsequently have been legitimate acts of self-defense.

The only Palestinians until 1960 were the Jews and the term was a profanity spewed out by arab muslims. Even the arab muslim history shows that they are recent arrivals to the lands of Palestine, and they had to change the rules of citizenship to take this into account. Prior to 1948 a person had to be born in a nation or lived there for an extended period of time to claim the right of citizenship, for the arab muslims it was 2 years unproven occupancy in the area.

Phoenall! Be ashamed! No such thing as Arab Palestinians until 1960?!?!?
You have been lied to by those who are playing you for a patsy. The Z's make this stuff up, knowing you'll never check for yourself.

Here is one quote on page 94 of Rashid Khalidi's The Iron Cage from a newspaper called Filastin (Palestine) published in Jaffa beginning in 1911, a half-century before the date you gave for the "invention" of Palestine in 1960.

"We are a nation threatened with disappearance in the face of the Zionist tide in this Palestinian land." editor of periodical Filastin, 'Isa al-'Isa, 1914

This following is from 'Isa al-'Isa's autobiography concerning an encounter with the leadership of the Arab Revolt during World War 1, quoted on page 97 of The Iron Cage.

"I grew nervous and angry and told myself "they are compromising over Palestine, which the Zionists will cut off from the body of the Arab lands." Amin 'Abd al-Hadi was the Secretary of the Military Governor ... I called him and asked him to come immediately ... and told him: "I am a Palestinian and you are a Palestinian, and Palestine is dear to us. I serve this Arab government in order to work to save Palestine, and I think you feel the same way."

And all that before WW1 was even well underway. al-'Isa was a prophet it seems.

I've got dozens upon dozens of these quotes. Shall I go on?

You can read both The Iron Cage and Khalidi's Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness for a more truthful account of Palestinian nationalism than any you have seen so far.

 

[amity1844]

OK, then, I'll bite.

What did Palestinians do to cause Jews to come from all over the world and dispense an ass kicking that resulted in them being expelled and dispossessed?

They LIED, CHEATED and MASS MURDERED THE JEWS and would not abide by the treaties that had made with the LoN.

Phoenall! Who is lying?!?!?

What did the Palestinians do to provoke the Balfour declaration?

Because if the answer is NOTHING, as it must be, then they have every right to defend themselves by any means available.

 

[irosie91]

OK, then, I'll bite.

What did Palestinians do to cause Jews to come from all over the world and dispense an ass kicking that resulted in them being expelled and dispossessed?

They LIED, CHEATED and MASS MURDERED THE JEWS and would not abide by the treaties that had made with the LoN.

Phoenall! Who is lying?!?!?

What did the Palestinians do to provoke the Balfour declaration?

Because if the answer is NOTHING, as it must be, then they have every right to defend themselves by any means available.

your statement is utterly meaningless----taken to its logical conclusion
every Syrian Christian who fled the Islamic violence in Syria has
EVERY RIGHT TO DEFEND THEMSELVES IN THE MANNER "Palestinians"
'defend' THEMSELVES In my town a "Palestinian" named Baz----blew
the brains out of a jewish child in "DEFENSE OF THE "PALESTINIANS" "
Thus anyone of the many many Syrian Christians in the USA has THE RIGHT
to walk into any mosque in the USA -----and blow the brains out of any muslim child.---
as an effort in the "struggle against ongoing injustice toward the Christians of Syria"

Using your logic----just about every child in the world could be considered
a justified target by some "VICTIM BY ASSOCIATION"

 

[amity1844]

As usual, you're not thinking straight. If I am sitting in my armchair tonight reading a book, and you burst into my house, or sneak into my house, and try to evict me and take possession of my house, I have the right to shoot you and/or remove you by force.

If you come back two days later and manage to install yourself in my guest room, I still reserve the right to shoot you, and if you are still there in 70 years, I retain the right to shoot you and/or remove you by force at any and every opportunity. If you bring friends, you let them in by the window in the guest room, and then the bunch of you try to take over the guest bath, I still have the right to shoot or remove you by force.

Because I am not the aggressor in this situation, and my rights are secure. Your usurping my guest room does not give you rights to my bathroom, and I still do have the right to shoot you whenever and wherever.

If this analogy fails somehow in analyzing the Palestine/Israel situation, please clarify how.

 

[amity1844]

I know a lot more that you do about genetics being a breeder of animals. And I don't use 30 year old scientific reports to back up my words. The latest scientific understanding is that mitochondrial DNA can be traced back to 2,000 B.C. and shows that the Palestinians that have been tested do not carry any of the Jewish genetic fingerprints. In fact the Cohen Gene is missing completely from all the samples.

BTW, Dr. Oppenheim has found the cohen mutations in Palestinians in roughly the same proportion as in ancient Jews, which is one of the proofs she uses to conclude that Palestinians ARE descended from ancient Jews.

You proved, Phoenall, that you haven't actually watched the videos or looked at the studies at all, because if you had you would know that.

 

[irosie91]

I know a lot more that you do about genetics being a breeder of animals. And I don't use 30 year old scientific reports to back up my words. The latest scientific understanding is that mitochondrial DNA can be traced back to 2,000 B.C. and shows that the Palestinians that have been tested do not carry any of the Jewish genetic fingerprints. In fact the Cohen Gene is missing completely from all the samples.

BTW, Dr. Oppenheim has found the cohen mutations in Palestinians in roughly the same proportion as in ancient Jews, which is one of the proofs she uses to conclude that Palestinians ARE descended from ancient Jews.

You proved, Phoenall, that you haven't actually watched the videos or looked at the studies at all, because if you had you would know that.

Enmity-----you should not use words that you do not understand
WHAT IS "the cohens mutations" and how would anyone know the "proportions"
of this putative "cohen mutation" in ancient jews "buccal scrappings"??? I cannot
watch video------new PC ----I have not yet worked out videos and do not have sound---
but I have been reading the literature (((well some of it))) since Watson and crick ----
you make it very clear by your posts that you are clueless. I will help ----unless one knows
when this non existent "cohen" mutation happened and unless one knows it happened
only in ONE jew then the information you idiotically claim -----would not come
close to "proving" that palestinians are descended from ancient jews

the fact that you use the phrase "cohen mutation" kinda proves you are-----very not
intelligent

 

[amity1844]

Look, irosie you are simply going to have to look at the evidence I linked to and then you should be able to talk with greater intelligence.
Yes, there is a genetic marker for cohanim.
And ancient Jews have been genetically analyzed.

Look at the sources and then we can talk.

 

[Phoenall]

Can you dispute what I am saying?

Because I believe it is accurate.

Palestinians did nothing to provoke Zionist aggression, they simply inhabited their own land for millenia. Zionist aggression was initiated against them in the service of Zionist ends, to take possession of the land.

Ergo any actions undertaken by Palestinians subsequently have been legitimate acts of self-defense.

The only Palestinians until 1960 were the Jews and the term was a profanity spewed out by arab muslims. Even the arab muslim history shows that they are recent arrivals to the lands of Palestine, and they had to change the rules of citizenship to take this into account. Prior to 1948 a person had to be born in a nation or lived there for an extended period of time to claim the right of citizenship, for the arab muslims it was 2 years unproven occupancy in the area.

Phoenall! Be ashamed! No such thing as Arab Palestinians until 1960?!?!?
You have been lied to by those who are playing you for a patsy. The Z's make this stuff up, knowing you'll never check for yourself.

Here is one quote on page 94 of Rashid Khalidi's The Iron Cage from a newspaper called Filastin (Palestine) published in Jaffa beginning in 1911, a half-century before the date you gave for the "invention" of Palestine in 1960.

"We are a nation threatened with disappearance in the face of the Zionist tide in this Palestinian land." editor of periodical Filastin, 'Isa al-'Isa, 1914

This following is from 'Isa al-'Isa's autobiography concerning an encounter with the leadership of the Arab Revolt during World War 1, quoted on page 97 of The Iron Cage.

"I grew nervous and angry and told myself "they are compromising over Palestine, which the Zionists will cut off from the body of the Arab lands." Amin 'Abd al-Hadi was the Secretary of the Military Governor ... I called him and asked him to come immediately ... and told him: "I am a Palestinian and you are a Palestinian, and Palestine is dear to us. I serve this Arab government in order to work to save Palestine, and I think you feel the same way."

And all that before WW1 was even well underway. al-'Isa was a prophet it seems.

I've got dozens upon dozens of these quotes. Shall I go on?

You can read both The Iron Cage and Khalidi's Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness for a more truthful account of Palestinian nationalism than any you have seen so far.

That is correct until the 1960 the only Palestinians were the Jews, and no self respecting arab muslim would allow themselves to be called Palestinians. Look it up if you like.

 

[Phoenall]

OK, then, I'll bite.

What did Palestinians do to cause Jews to come from all over the world and dispense an ass kicking that resulted in them being expelled and dispossessed?

They LIED, CHEATED and MASS MURDERED THE JEWS and would not abide by the treaties that had made with the LoN.

Phoenall! Who is lying?!?!?

What did the Palestinians do to provoke the Balfour declaration?

Because if the answer is NOTHING, as it must be, then they have every right to defend themselves by any means available.

For starters they DID NOT OWN THE LAND SO HAD NO LEGAL RIGHT TO IT

They have LIED constantly about being there for centuries when the evidence shows they were recent illegal migrants.

What has the Balfour declaration got to do with anything, it was the legal owners that gave the land as the NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS

Then by the same criteria so have the Jews, so you cant complain when Palestinians get killed can you................