Who—and How Many—Are the Palestinian Refugees?

[Phoenall]

I know a lot more that you do about genetics being a breeder of animals. And I don't use 30 year old scientific reports to back up my words. The latest scientific understanding is that mitochondrial DNA can be traced back to 2,000 B.C. and shows that the Palestinians that have been tested do not carry any of the Jewish genetic fingerprints. In fact the Cohen Gene is missing completely from all the samples.

BTW, Dr. Oppenheim has found the cohen mutations in Palestinians in roughly the same proportion as in ancient Jews, which is one of the proofs she uses to conclude that Palestinians ARE descended from ancient Jews.

You proved, Phoenall, that you haven't actually watched the videos or looked at the studies at all, because if you had you would know that.

No such thing as a "cohen mutation" what you should do is try reading more up to date reports. It is not a mutation, mutations are abnormalities like the arab muslims sickle cell anaemia and diabetes. The Cohen gene is a distinctive genetic fingerprint that traces ancestry back to Abraham, NO ARAB MUSLIMS HAVE THIS GENETIC FINGERPRINT as it comes down the matriarchal line. Seems that the Jewish god knew something the muslim god didn't when he made the Jews matriarchal.


Once again you show that you don't have a clue about genetics and are just copying from the list handed to you by your ISLAMONAZI handlers.

 

[P F Tinmore]

To even dream of this lunacy is a sign of mental illness, and complete vacuum of facts or reality. Please stop discussing this topic, you are making the pro-arab side look incredibly stupid.

Can you dispute what I am saying?

Because I believe it is accurate.

Palestinians did nothing to provoke Zionist aggression, they simply inhabited their own land for millenia. Zionist aggression was initiated against them in the service of Zionist ends, to take possession of the land.

Ergo any actions undertaken by Palestinians subsequently have been legitimate acts of self-defense.

The only Palestinians until 1960 were the Jews and the term was a profanity spewed out by arab muslims. Even the arab muslim history shows that they are recent arrivals to the lands of Palestine, and they had to change the rules of citizenship to take this into account. Prior to 1948 a person had to be born in a nation or lived there for an extended period of time to claim the right of citizenship, for the arab muslims it was 2 years unproven occupancy in the area.

Do explain the riots in Hebron in 1929 when the arab muslims went on the rampaged and mass murdered unarmed Jewish students.
Firing illegal chemical/biological weapons at children is not self defence it is aggressive terrorism illegal under the Geneva conventions and International law.

WTF are you babbling about?

Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507) – 2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

 

[Phoenall]

Can you dispute what I am saying?

Because I believe it is accurate.

Palestinians did nothing to provoke Zionist aggression, they simply inhabited their own land for millenia. Zionist aggression was initiated against them in the service of Zionist ends, to take possession of the land.

Ergo any actions undertaken by Palestinians subsequently have been legitimate acts of self-defense.

The only Palestinians until 1960 were the Jews and the term was a profanity spewed out by arab muslims. Even the arab muslim history shows that they are recent arrivals to the lands of Palestine, and they had to change the rules of citizenship to take this into account. Prior to 1948 a person had to be born in a nation or lived there for an extended period of time to claim the right of citizenship, for the arab muslims it was 2 years unproven occupancy in the area.

Do explain the riots in Hebron in 1929 when the arab muslims went on the rampaged and mass murdered unarmed Jewish students.
Firing illegal chemical/biological weapons at children is not self defence it is aggressive terrorism illegal under the Geneva conventions and International law.

WTF are you babbling about?

Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507) – 2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Palestine was not the nation that took over ownership of the land, that was the LoN and they gave authority to the mandated power being Great Britain. Not all the Jews were Turkish citizens either, so your numbers are skewed in favour of the arab muslims.

 

[rhodescholar]

Can you dispute what I am saying? Because I believe it is accurate. Palestinians did nothing to provoke Zionist aggression, they simply inhabited their own land for millenia. Zionist aggression was initiated against them in the service of Zionist ends, to take possession of the land. Ergo any actions undertaken by Palestinians subsequently have been legitimate acts of self-defense.

If you are so ******* stupid to even consider either statement above as fact, there is no point to even bothering responding. I consider you to be a bottom-feeding troll, not much different than your fellow failures in life, the arab muslims.

To those with double-digit IQs or higher, I'll leave you with this, how can the arabs who call themselves palestinians have been there for millenia, when islam did not even exist until the year 632? And further, Turkish census data from the 1800s forward shows that over time, most of the arabs migrated from syria and jordan, with a handful from egypt. But even a child with a minor amount of information on the conflict would know the basics, but not everyone who enters these forums has even that.

 

[irosie91]

get with the program, scholar-----the current party line is that in the mid
1800s-----Palestine was a VIBRANT PROPEROUS land with a large happy
and healthy population of diverse peoples----all loving each other.
Suddenly!!!!! massive hordes of jews on horseback, elephantback, in tanks
thundered in------along with bomber jets and shot the place up and stole it and
now reside in the living rooms of arab muslim houses and are using their pristine
toilets and golden bathtubs. Try to pay attention

 

[aris2chat]

I know a lot more that you do about genetics being a breeder of animals. And I don't use 30 year old scientific reports to back up my words. The latest scientific understanding is that mitochondrial DNA can be traced back to 2,000 B.C. and shows that the Palestinians that have been tested do not carry any of the Jewish genetic fingerprints. In fact the Cohen Gene is missing completely from all the samples.

BTW, Dr. Oppenheim has found the cohen mutations in Palestinians in roughly the same proportion as in ancient Jews, which is one of the proofs she uses to conclude that Palestinians ARE descended from ancient Jews.

You proved, Phoenall, that you haven't actually watched the videos or looked at the studies at all, because if you had you would know that.

No such thing as a "cohen mutation" what you should do is try reading more up to date reports. It is not a mutation, mutations are abnormalities like the arab muslims sickle cell anaemia and diabetes. The Cohen gene is a distinctive genetic fingerprint that traces ancestry back to Abraham, NO ARAB MUSLIMS HAVE THIS GENETIC FINGERPRINT as it comes down the matriarchal line. Seems that the Jewish god knew something the muslim god didn't when he made the Jews matriarchal.


Once again you show that you don't have a clue about genetics and are just copying from the list handed to you by your ISLAMONAZI handlers.

There are markers and mutations, benefits and dangers. Longer life (Methuselah) and failure to thrive.

http://ou.org.s3.amazonaws.com/publications/ja/5760winter/cohen gene.pdf

Y-chromosomal Aaron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DNA chain of Tradition, Families and family trees, Cohen and Levi family worldwide

http://www.worldacademy.org/files/DNA_Genealogy_Part_2.pdf

OMIM Entry - # 216550 - COHEN SYNDROME; COH1

Genetics: A gene of rare effect : Nature News & Comment

Clinical variability of genetic isolates of Cohen syndrome. - ResearchGate

GeneTests - Disorders

RootsWeb: GENEALOGY-DNA-L Re: [DNA] Samaritan Cohen are E3b1(M78) & DYS439

 

[P F Tinmore]

The only Palestinians until 1960 were the Jews and the term was a profanity spewed out by arab muslims. Even the arab muslim history shows that they are recent arrivals to the lands of Palestine, and they had to change the rules of citizenship to take this into account. Prior to 1948 a person had to be born in a nation or lived there for an extended period of time to claim the right of citizenship, for the arab muslims it was 2 years unproven occupancy in the area.

Do explain the riots in Hebron in 1929 when the arab muslims went on the rampaged and mass murdered unarmed Jewish students.
Firing illegal chemical/biological weapons at children is not self defence it is aggressive terrorism illegal under the Geneva conventions and International law.

WTF are you babbling about?

Thus, the net number of Arabs who were Ottomans, and then automatically acquired Palestinian nationality, was as follows: (717,006 + 8,507) – 2,783 = 722,730, about 99 % of the total population in Palestine at the time. On the other hand, the number of Jews within the total population, at the same moment, was 121,725.148 Of these, the majority were foreigners: 37,997 acquired provisional Palestinian nationality in 1922, as mentioned above, plus 76,585 registered as immigrants upon entering Palestine between 1920 and 1925.149 Thus, the net number of Jews who were Turkish and then became Palestinian citizens was: 121,725 - (37,997 + 76,585) = 7,143 individuals, a bit below 1 % of the total population.

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

Palestine was not the nation that took over ownership of the land, that was the LoN and they gave authority to the mandated power being Great Britain. Not all the Jews were Turkish citizens either, so your numbers are skewed in favour of the arab muslims.

Palestine was held in trust by the LoN and the mandate was a temporarily appointed administrator.

Neither one owned the land.

The land belonged to the Turkish citizens who became Palestinians.

The automatic, ipso facto, change from Ottoman to Palestinian nationality was dealt with in Article 1, paragraph 1, of the Citizenship Order, which declared:

"Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine upon the 1st day of August, 1925, shall become Palestinian citizens.”​

Genesis of Citizenship in Palestine and Israel

 

[amity1844]

The only Palestinians until 1960 were the Jews and the term was a profanity spewed out by arab muslims. Even the arab muslim history shows that they are recent arrivals to the lands of Palestine, and they had to change the rules of citizenship to take this into account. Prior to 1948 a person had to be born in a nation or lived there for an extended period of time to claim the right of citizenship, for the arab muslims it was 2 years unproven occupancy in the area.

Phoenall! Be ashamed! No such thing as Arab Palestinians until 1960?!?!?
You have been lied to by those who are playing you for a patsy. The Z's make this stuff up, knowing you'll never check for yourself.

Here is one quote on page 94 of Rashid Khalidi's The Iron Cage from a newspaper called Filastin (Palestine) published in Jaffa beginning in 1911, a half-century before the date you gave for the "invention" of Palestine in 1960.


This following is from 'Isa al-'Isa's autobiography concerning an encounter with the leadership of the Arab Revolt during World War 1, quoted on page 97 of The Iron Cage.

"I grew nervous and angry and told myself "they are compromising over Palestine, which the Zionists will cut off from the body of the Arab lands." Amin 'Abd al-Hadi was the Secretary of the Military Governor ... I called him and asked him to come immediately ... and told him: "I am a Palestinian and you are a Palestinian, and Palestine is dear to us. I serve this Arab government in order to work to save Palestine, and I think you feel the same way."

And all that before WW1 was even well underway. al-'Isa was a prophet it seems.

I've got dozens upon dozens of these quotes. Shall I go on?

You can read both The Iron Cage and Khalidi's Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness for a more truthful account of Palestinian nationalism than any you have seen so far.

That is correct until the 1960 the only Palestinians were the Jews, and no self respecting arab muslim would allow themselves to be called Palestinians. Look it up if you like.

Perfect example of a Zionist lie... if there is truly any source where I could "look it up." What do you say about the quotes I provided?

 

[amity1844]

They LIED, CHEATED and MASS MURDERED THE JEWS and would not abide by the treaties that had made with the LoN.

Phoenall! Who is lying?!?!?

What did the Palestinians do to provoke the Balfour declaration?

Because if the answer is NOTHING, as it must be, then they have every right to defend themselves by any means available.

For starters they DID NOT OWN THE LAND SO HAD NO LEGAL RIGHT TO IT

They have LIED constantly about being there for centuries when the evidence shows they were recent illegal migrants.

What has the Balfour declaration got to do with anything, it was the legal owners that gave the land as the NATIONAL HOME OF THE JEWS

Then by the same criteria so have the Jews, so you cant complain when Palestinians get killed can you................

If you think they did not own the land you are wrong. Provide me stats on ownership. Absentee ownership was roughly the same proportion as it is in Kansas today. And those who were farming the land for generations did definitely have legal rights. The ones lacking in rights were the Zionist immigrants who ultimately had to acquire land ownership by force.

The alleged "evidence" that Palestinians being recent illegal immigrants is fabricated, and it is not even fabricated well. And now of course with genetic evidence the issue is settled: The Palestinians have been on the land for millenia.

The Balfour Declaration makes ... who? ... the British? .... the legal "owners" of Palestine? Not hardly. The mandate did not make the British into owners of anything.

 

[irosie91]

Phoenall! Be ashamed! No such thing as Arab Palestinians until 1960?!?!?
You have been lied to by those who are playing you for a patsy. The Z's make this stuff up, knowing you'll never check for yourself.

Here is one quote on page 94 of Rashid Khalidi's The Iron Cage from a newspaper called Filastin (Palestine) published in Jaffa beginning in 1911, a half-century before the date you gave for the "invention" of Palestine in 1960.


This following is from 'Isa al-'Isa's autobiography concerning an encounter with the leadership of the Arab Revolt during World War 1, quoted on page 97 of The Iron Cage.

And all that before WW1 was even well underway. al-'Isa was a prophet it seems.

I've got dozens upon dozens of these quotes. Shall I go on?

You can read both The Iron Cage and Khalidi's Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness for a more truthful account of Palestinian nationalism than any you have seen so far.

That is correct until the 1960 the only Palestinians were the Jews, and no self respecting arab muslim would allow themselves to be called Palestinians. Look it up if you like.

Perfect example of a Zionist lie... if there is truly any source where I could "look it up." What do you say about the quotes I provided?

your quotes are MEANINGLESS you seem to believe that since the area named PALESTINE----
by the romans about 100 AD has been called "Palestine" -------by Europeans who got it from
rome and by jews who followed the convention and by arab who got it from jews and
Christians------THEREFORE arab muslims called themselves PALESTINIANS-----
wrong In fact-------Muslims from India ----in my experience do not even call themselves
"INDIANS" Hindus do. Christians from india do. even jews from India do
-------muslims from India call themselves Muslims "I am a muslim from new dehli"----
Muslims from Kashmir do not call themselves INDIANS-----they call themselves
KASHMIRIS ( yanno---Kashmir---part of the moghul empire)

for arab muslims living in "filalastine" ----filastine was MUSLIM LAND----and they
were members of the people who owned it by conquest. I wonder if the muslims
who invaded spain considered themselves "SPANISH"?------come to think of it----
did muslims in spain speak SPANISH? jews did anyone know?
Is there a LADINO for muslims?

 

[proudveteran06]

Palestinian Territories (Gaza Strip and West Bank including East Jerusalem) 4,420,549

– West Bank 2,719,112[1]

– Gaza Strip 1,701,437[1]

Jordan 3,240,000

Israel 1,658,000

Syria 630,000

Chile 500,000

Lebanon 402,582

Saudi Arabia 280,245

Egypt 270,245

United States 255,000

Honduras 250,000

United Arab Emirates 170,000

Mexico 120,000

Qatar 100,000

Germany 80,000

Kuwait 80,000

El Salvador 70,000

Brazil 59,000

Iraq 57,000

Yemen 55,000

Canada 50,975

Australia 45,000

Libya 44,000

United Kingdom 20,000

Peru 15,000

Colombia 12,000

Pakistan 10,500

Netherlands 9,000

Sweden 7,000

Algeria 4,030


By the way, Wikipedia now says:

Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times. A study of high-resolution haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Israeli Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool.[31] Since the time of the Muslim conquests in the 7th century, religious conversions have resulted in Palestinians being predominantly Sunni Muslim by religious affiliation, though there is a significant Palestinian Christian minority of various Christian denominations, as well as Druze and a small Samaritan community. Though Palestinian Jews made up part of the population of Palestine prior to the creation of the State of Israel, few identify as "Palestinian" today. Acculturation, independent from conversion to Islam, resulted in Palestinians being linguistically and culturally Arab.[16] The vernacular of Palestinians, irrespective of religion, is the Palestinian dialect of Arabic. Many Arab citizens of Israel including Palestinians are bilingual and fluent in Hebrew.

Thank you for this " list" . Say these words Before you go to sleep every night; NO " RIGHT OF RETURN ".

 

[Hossfly]

Phoenall! Be ashamed! No such thing as Arab Palestinians until 1960?!?!?
You have been lied to by those who are playing you for a patsy. The Z's make this stuff up, knowing you'll never check for yourself.

Here is one quote on page 94 of Rashid Khalidi's The Iron Cage from a newspaper called Filastin (Palestine) published in Jaffa beginning in 1911, a half-century before the date you gave for the "invention" of Palestine in 1960.


This following is from 'Isa al-'Isa's autobiography concerning an encounter with the leadership of the Arab Revolt during World War 1, quoted on page 97 of The Iron Cage.

And all that before WW1 was even well underway. al-'Isa was a prophet it seems.

I've got dozens upon dozens of these quotes. Shall I go on?

You can read both The Iron Cage and Khalidi's Palestinian Identity: The Construction of Modern National Consciousness for a more truthful account of Palestinian nationalism than any you have seen so far.

That is correct until the 1960 the only Palestinians were the Jews, and no self respecting arab muslim would allow themselves to be called Palestinians. Look it up if you like.

Perfect example of a Zionist lie... if there is truly any source where I could "look it up." What do you say about the quotes I provided?

Google "Mohammed", you know, the Arab goat breeder (and I use that term loosely) and check the dates when he herded his Ayrabs into countries for the first time. That's when "Palestinians" sprang forth.

 

[amity1844]

Palestinian Territories (Gaza Strip and West Bank including East Jerusalem) 4,420,549

– West Bank 2,719,112[1]

– Gaza Strip 1,701,437[1]

Jordan 3,240,000

Israel 1,658,000

Syria 630,000

Chile 500,000

Lebanon 402,582

Saudi Arabia 280,245

Egypt 270,245

United States 255,000

Honduras 250,000

United Arab Emirates 170,000

Mexico 120,000

Qatar 100,000

Germany 80,000

Kuwait 80,000

El Salvador 70,000

Brazil 59,000

Iraq 57,000

Yemen 55,000

Canada 50,975

Australia 45,000

Libya 44,000

United Kingdom 20,000

Peru 15,000

Colombia 12,000

Pakistan 10,500

Netherlands 9,000

Sweden 7,000

Algeria 4,030


By the way, Wikipedia now says:

Genetic analysis suggests that a majority of the Muslims of Palestine, inclusive of Arab citizens of Israel, are descendants of Christians, Jews and other earlier inhabitants of the southern Levant whose core may reach back to prehistoric times. A study of high-resolution haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Israeli Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool.[31] Since the time of the Muslim conquests in the 7th century, religious conversions have resulted in Palestinians being predominantly Sunni Muslim by religious affiliation, though there is a significant Palestinian Christian minority of various Christian denominations, as well as Druze and a small Samaritan community. Though Palestinian Jews made up part of the population of Palestine prior to the creation of the State of Israel, few identify as "Palestinian" today. Acculturation, independent from conversion to Islam, resulted in Palestinians being linguistically and culturally Arab.[16] The vernacular of Palestinians, irrespective of religion, is the Palestinian dialect of Arabic. Many Arab citizens of Israel including Palestinians are bilingual and fluent in Hebrew.

Thank you for this " list" . Say these words Before you go to sleep every night; NO " RIGHT OF RETURN ".

Au contraire, ma chere Z. There is a right of return:
Palestinian right of return - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinian Territories (Gaza Strip and West Bank including East Jerusalem) 4,420,549

– West Bank 2,719,112[1]

– Gaza Strip 1,701,437[1]

Jordan 3,240,000

Israel 1,658,000

Syria 630,000

Chile 500,000

Lebanon 402,582

Saudi Arabia 280,245

Egypt 270,245

United States 255,000

Honduras 250,000

United Arab Emirates 170,000

Mexico 120,000

Qatar 100,000

Germany 80,000

Kuwait 80,000

El Salvador 70,000

Brazil 59,000

Iraq 57,000

Yemen 55,000

Canada 50,975

Australia 45,000

Libya 44,000

United Kingdom 20,000

Peru 15,000

Colombia 12,000

Pakistan 10,500

Netherlands 9,000

Sweden 7,000

Algeria 4,030


By the way, Wikipedia now says:

Thank you for this " list" . Say these words Before you go to sleep every night; NO " RIGHT OF RETURN ".

Au contraire, ma chere Z. There is a right of return:
Palestinian right of return - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

That is correct.

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

 

[rhodescholar]

There is no right of return, nor will the arabs ever get one. As anyone with half a brain, or any legal expertise, you cannot have one set of legal definitions for all other refugees, and one set for the arabs who call themselves palestinians.

When the arabs return all stolen property to the jews they ethnically cleansed from 1947-1963, and to the other groups like the azeri, bahai, maronites, coptics, chaldeans, maneachans, assyrians, orthodox christians, kurds and jews that they ethnically cleansed from the mideast, THEN I might be willing to take a look at the legitimacy of their claims in the west bank, not before. I won't even get into the laws on the books in arab muslim countries and practices that jews cannot own land, vote, or participate in many different jobs.

Arab muslims, as someone who lived in the mideast for longer than most of the jew-hating filth in this forum has been alive, are about the most racist and violent people on earth. Imagine the el salvadoran gangs spanning 22 countries instead of just part of central america.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There is a problem with using A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974 imposition of the "inalienable rights" for the Palestinian in reference to the "right of return" (ROR). Any "inalienable right" (not transferable to another or capable of being repudiated) does not apply to "descendants;" as discussed in Posting #25. "Inalienable rights," as you might expect by now, are a form of "Natural Law."

The unwritten body of universal moral principles that underlie the ethical and legal norms by which human conduct is sometimes evaluated and governed. Natural law is often contrasted with positive law, which consists of the written rules and regulations enacted by government. The term natural law is derived from the Roman term jus naturale. Adherents to natural law philosophy are known as naturalists.

Naturalists believe that natural law principles are an inherent part of nature and exist regardless of whether government recognizes or enforces them. Naturalists further believe that governments must incorporate natural law principles into their legal systems before justice can be achieved. There are three schools of natural law theory: divine natural law, secular natural law, and historical natural law.

Divine natural law represents the system of principles believed to have been revealed or inspired by God or some other supreme and supernatural being. These divine principles are typically reflected by authoritative religious writings such as Scripture. Secular natural law represents the system of principles derived from the physical, biological, and behavioral laws of nature as perceived by the human intellect and elaborated through reason. Historical natural law represents the system of principles that has evolved over time through the slow accretion of custom, tradition, and experience. Each school of natural law influenced the Founding Fathers during the nascent years of U.S. law in the eighteenth century and continue to influence the decision-making process of state and federal courts today.
SOURCE: DEFINITION: Natural Law

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

(COMMENT)

Inalienable right refers to rights that cannot be surrendered, sold or transferred to someone else, especially a natural right such as the right to own property; without consent - protected by natural law. Natural rights (AKA: moral rights or inalienable rights) are rights people have that are not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs on a particular society.

In the case of those persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 [AKA: Registered Palestine Refugees (RPR)], the Inalienable ROR applies only to those that were actually displaced (one of the original 860,000 persons according to the UNRWA census). It does not multiply down the line of descendants. An original RPR can pass it to a descendant, but then the original RPR would no longer hold the ROR. Remembering that not all 860,000 RPR were landowners.

If I were a Palestinian, I would not rest my argument on A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974. I don't think it says what you might believe it says.

A Palestinian born in the West Bank, does not hold the natural ROR to Israel unless it was passed on by one of the original RPR.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

There is a problem with using A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974 imposition of the "inalienable rights" for the Palestinian in reference to the "right of return" (ROR). Any "inalienable right" (not transferable to another or capable of being repudiated) does not apply to "descendants;" as discussed in Posting #25. "Inalienable rights," as you might expect by now, are a form of "Natural Law."

The unwritten body of universal moral principles that underlie the ethical and legal norms by which human conduct is sometimes evaluated and governed. Natural law is often contrasted with positive law, which consists of the written rules and regulations enacted by government. The term natural law is derived from the Roman term jus naturale. Adherents to natural law philosophy are known as naturalists.

Naturalists believe that natural law principles are an inherent part of nature and exist regardless of whether government recognizes or enforces them. Naturalists further believe that governments must incorporate natural law principles into their legal systems before justice can be achieved. There are three schools of natural law theory: divine natural law, secular natural law, and historical natural law.

Divine natural law represents the system of principles believed to have been revealed or inspired by God or some other supreme and supernatural being. These divine principles are typically reflected by authoritative religious writings such as Scripture. Secular natural law represents the system of principles derived from the physical, biological, and behavioral laws of nature as perceived by the human intellect and elaborated through reason. Historical natural law represents the system of principles that has evolved over time through the slow accretion of custom, tradition, and experience. Each school of natural law influenced the Founding Fathers during the nascent years of U.S. law in the eighteenth century and continue to influence the decision-making process of state and federal courts today.
SOURCE: DEFINITION: Natural Law

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;

2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974

(COMMENT)

Inalienable right refers to rights that cannot be surrendered, sold or transferred to someone else, especially a natural right such as the right to own property; without consent - protected by natural law. Natural rights (AKA: moral rights or inalienable rights) are rights people have that are not contingent upon the laws, customs, or beliefs on a particular society.

In the case of those persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948 [AKA: Registered Palestine Refugees (RPR)], the Inalienable ROR applies only to those that were actually displaced (one of the original 860,000 persons according to the UNRWA census). It does not multiply down the line of descendants. An original RPR can pass it to a descendant, but then the original RPR would no longer hold the ROR. Remembering that not all 860,000 RPR were landowners.

If I were a Palestinian, I would not rest my argument on A/RES/3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974. I don't think it says what you might believe it says.

A Palestinian born in the West Bank, does not hold the natural ROR to Israel unless it was passed on by one of the original RPR.

Most Respectfully,
R

Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians. Sure there were lesser people living there (standard colonialist view of natives) but they had no rights. Of course those are lies.

Palestine

Palestine, like all of the newly created countries in that region, was created by post war treaties. Its international borders, and the nationality of its inhabitants were defined. All of these new countries were called successor states.

Palestine came into legal existence upon the ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in 1924.

Palestinians

According to international norms, the Treaty of Lausanne, and the Palestinian citizenship order, the people who normally lived in Palestine became Palestinian citizens.

As a nation of people inside defined international borders, they have inherent, inalienable rights that include:

• The right to self determination.

• The right to independence.

• The right to sovereignty.

• The right to territorial integrity.

Any external interference to the exercise of rights is illegal.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe you are in error in a number of points.

Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians.

(COMMENT)

• I am not Israeli, I'm American. I don't represent Israel.
• I don't believe you are correct in your assertion that "Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine." It is a matter of context and the time period.

Sure there were lesser people living there (standard colonialist view of natives) but they had no rights. Of course those are lies.

(COMMENT)

No Western colonial power has colonized the former Mandate of Palestine. Only Islamic/Middle Eastern nations. Jordan even annexed the West Bank once.

Palestine came into legal existence upon the ratification of the Treaty of Lausanne in 1924.

(COMMENT)

Again with this nonsense. The Treaty of Lausanne (1924) did not have anything to do with bringing into existence the country, state or nation of "Palestine." In fact, "Palestine" is not mentioned once in the Treaty. The territory under discussion was included in the overall apportionment of Syria.

ARTICLE 3.

From the Mediterranean to the frontier of Persia, the frontier of Turkey is laid down as follows:

(I) With Syria:

The frontier described in Article 8 of the Franco-Turkish Agreement of the 20th October, 1921​

(2) With Iraq:

The frontier between Turkey and Iraq shall be laid down in friendly arrangement to be concluded between Turkey and Great Britain within nine months.
In the event of no agreement being reached between the two Governments within the time mentioned, the dispute shall be referred to the Council of the League of Nations.
The Turkish and British Governments reciprocally undertake that, pending the decision to be reached on the subject of the frontier, no military or other movement shall take place which might modify in any way the present state of the territories of which the final fate will depend upon that decision.​

SOURCE: WWI Document Archive > Conventions and Treaties > Treaty of Lausanne

According to international norms, the Treaty of Lausanne, and the Palestinian citizenship order, the people who normally lived in Palestine became Palestinian citizens.

(COMMENT)

This would be wrong again. Palestinian nationality was defined two years earlier under the Palestine Order in Council. The language used in the treaty comes from the Order in Council; not the other way around.

NOW THEREFORE His Majesty, by virtue and in exercise of the powers in this behalf by the Foreign Jurisdiction Act, 1890, or otherwise in His Majesty vested, is pleased by and with the advice of his Privy Council to order, and it is hereby ordered as follows:--

Palestinian citizenship, the following persons shall be deemed to be Palestinian citizens:--

(a)Turkish subjects habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the date of commencement of this Order.

(b)All persons of other than Turkish nationality habitually resident in the territory of Palestine at the said date, who shall within two calendar months of the said date make application for Palestinian citizenship in such form and before such officer as may be prescribed by the High Commissioner.​

SOURCE: The Palestine Order in Council, 1922

As a nation of people inside defined international borders, they have inherent, inalienable rights

(COMMENT)

This again, is inaccurate. It is very dependent on the time period. Prior to 1948, and the establishment of the State of Israel, the borders were defined for Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Egypt. The boundaries of Mandate of Palestine (not a country or nation), under League of Nation/United Nations guardianship was under government control and trusteeship of the United Kingdom. In fact, its legal status was described as an "entity."

"Palestine is today a legal entity but it is not a sovereign state. Palestine is a territory administered under mandate by His Majesty (in respect of the United Kingdom), who is entirely responsible both for its internal administration and for its foreign affairs.

"After the 15th May, 1948, Palestine will continue to be a legal entity but it will still not be a sovereign state because it will not be immediately self-governing. The authority responsible for its administration will, however, have changed."

"Where the sovereignty of Palestine lies at the present time is a disputed and perhaps academic legal question about which writers have expressed a number of different conclusions. Where the sovereignty of Palestine will lie after the 15th May, 1948, is perhaps also a question on which different views will be held, but so far as His Majesty's Government are aware, it is a question which it is unnecessary to answer in connection with any practical issues."

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

As you can see, in 1948 - the Government of Palestine, under the Mandate, was in the hands of the Mandatory, not the Palestinians; without regard to citizenship. There was no nation of people inside defined international borders of the Mandate Territory.

The nation of people inside defined international borders was recognized by the world in 1988.

Recalling its resolution 3237 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974 on the observer status for the Palestine Liberation Organization and subsequent relevant resolutions,

1. Acknowledges the proclamation of the State of Palestine by the Palestine National Council on 15 November 1988;

2. Affirms the need to enable the Palestinian people to exercise their sovereignty over their territory occupied since 1967;

3. Decides that, effective as of 15 December 1988, the designation "Palestine" should be used in place of the designation "Palestine Liberation Organization" in the United Nations system, without prejudice to the observer status and functions of the Palestine Liberation Organization within the United Nations system, in conformity with relevant United Nations resolutions and practice;

4. Requests the Secretary-General to take the necessary action to implement the present resolution.​

SOURCE: A/RES/43/177 15 December 1988

inalienable rights that include:

• The right to self determination.
• The right to independence.
• The right to sovereignty.
• The right to territorial integrity.

(COMMENT)

Whereas it is true that the "right of self-determination" is an "inalienable right" --- it is not exclusive to the Palestinians. All peoples (including the Israelis) have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development. (International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights) And while the Commission on Human Rights (E/CN.4/RES/1995/4 17 February 1995) Reaffirms the inalienable right of the Palestinian people to self-determination without external interference; it also Recalls General Assembly Resolutions 181 A and B (II) of 29 November 1947 and 194 (III) of 11 December 1948, as well as all other resolutions which confirm and define the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, particularly their right to self-determination without external interference and to the establishment of their independent State on their national soil, especially Assembly resolutions ES-7/2 of 29 July 1980 and 37/86 E of 20 December 1982, it does not grant domain to the Palestinians over all the territory formerly under Mandate. In fact, it limits its recognition to the West Bank and Gaza Strip (territories which Israel has occupied since 1967).

This is a 47 year struggle, which has its roots in dating back to the very independence of Israel. It is only solvable through a good faith peace effort; one which the Palestinians have yet to commit.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe you are in error in a number of points.

Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians.

(COMMENT)

• I am not Israeli, I'm American. I don't represent Israel.
• I don't believe you are correct in your assertion that "Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine." It is a matter of context and the time period.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are joking, right?

 

[toastman]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I believe you are in error in a number of points.

Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine and the Palestinians.

(COMMENT)

• I am not Israeli, I'm American. I don't represent Israel.
• I don't believe you are correct in your assertion that "Israel has always denied the existence of Palestine." It is a matter of context and the time period.

Most Respectfully,
R

You are joking, right?

You're the one joking. Time and time again you keep spewing the same. Like the Treaty of Lausanne crap.
You are wrong about that!! Can you not comprehend that? You run around this forum repeating these lies over and over and over.

Now do you understand why you have no credibility anymore?