Who—and How Many—Are the Palestinian Refugees?

[irosie91]

At the same time you will find that every race on this earth has about the same percentage of Y chromosome haplotypes. It is part of our genetic make up as Homo Sapiens. The telling aspect is in the mitochondrial DNA that distinguishes the racial character and lineage of a person. The Jews all have a mitochondrial DNA pattern that is as distinct as fingerprints from that of the Palestinians.

Apparently not, according to geneticists. Palestinians seem to have 85% identity with ancient Jews, as these studies have shown.

if you follow those links, some address Y-chromosome, some mitochondrial DNA.

All your links on this subject are 30 years old and did not deal with mitochondrial DNA as the methods had not yet been invented. It is from ancient mitochondrial DNA extracted from teeth that the geneticists are able to trace ancestry back and show that the vast majority of Palestinians are recent migrants to the area. They also show that there was very little in the way of interbreeding, no doubt in part to the muslims following the dictates of their religion.

What you are getting confused with is the homo Sapien genome that is 85% of the total DNA from which we can say we descended from nomads out of Africa

Phoen and now for ANCIENT genetic studies------you probably know that
GENE identification is very new-------even before there was gene identification---
there were methods in population genetics-----sorta. ---it was done by phenotype--
and manifestations thereof like tissue antigens. -----eg----blood type--etc.

studies way back in the primitive 1970s revealed an interesting---issue---
of all ethnic groups in "METROPOLIS" the one that INTERBRED---the
most--------was DA JOOOOOS------bottom line at that time -------for millennia---
JOOOOS MARRIED EACH OTHER Joos from England----marry Joos from France---or
Italy or Odessa ----or or or-----well ---another jew-------2000 years ago-----
joooos from Afghanistan married jooooos from morocco-----the people who is LINKED---
is JOOOOOS from anywhere in the world----and---of course all those LINKED jooos---
is linked to the Levant. Sorry enmity-----that's it-----that's all there is-----and---
of course muslims living in the levant------are also linked to the levant ---so what else
is new? but they are not linked so CONSISTENTLY as are -----jooos from anywhere in
da whole world

 

[amity1844]

All your links on this subject are 30 years old and did not deal with mitochondrial DNA as the methods had not yet been invented. It is from ancient mitochondrial DNA extracted from teeth that the geneticists are able to trace ancestry back and show that the vast majority of Palestinians are recent migrants to the area. They also show that there was very little in the way of interbreeding, no doubt in part to the muslims following the dictates of their religion.

What you are getting confused with is the homo Sapien genome that is 85% of the total DNA from which we can say we descended from nomads out of Africa

then you have not yet looked at the bibliography or the films. The studies were done in 2000-2002.

 

[amity1844]

Phoen and now for ANCIENT genetic studies------you probably know that
GENE identification is very new-------even before there was gene identification---
there were methods in population genetics-----sorta. ---it was done by phenotype--
and manifestations thereof like tissue antigens. -----eg----blood type--etc.

studies way back in the primitive 1970s revealed an interesting---issue---
of all ethnic groups in "METROPOLIS" the one that INTERBRED---the
most--------was DA JOOOOOS------bottom line at that time -------for millennia---
JOOOOS MARRIED EACH OTHER Joos from England----marry Joos from France---or
Italy or Odessa ----or or or-----well ---another jew-------2000 years ago-----
joooos from Afghanistan married jooooos from morocco-----the people who is LINKED---
is JOOOOOS from anywhere in the world----and---of course all those LINKED jooos---
is linked to the Levant. Sorry enmity-----that's it-----that's all there is-----and---
of course muslims living in the levant------are also linked to the levant ---so what else
is new? but they are not linked so CONSISTENTLY as are -----jooos from anywhere in
da whole world

Just write to Dr. Oppenheim c/o Hebrew University and Hadassah Medical Center and explain to her how wrong she is. I am sure she would love to learn more about genetics from you. I can't really understand what you are saying here because it is so disjointed.

MY PART in all this is to say "Eureka! We can now prove beyond dispute that Palestinians are the indigenous people of Palestine." That is all.

by the way modern Jews are apparently descended 72% from ancient Jews, too, so it is not an exclusive Palestinian thing.

 

[irosie91]

All your links on this subject are 30 years old and did not deal with mitochondrial DNA as the methods had not yet been invented. It is from ancient mitochondrial DNA extracted from teeth that the geneticists are able to trace ancestry back and show that the vast majority of Palestinians are recent migrants to the area. They also show that there was very little in the way of interbreeding, no doubt in part to the muslims following the dictates of their religion.

What you are getting confused with is the homo Sapien genome that is 85% of the total DNA from which we can say we descended from nomads out of Africa

then you have not yet looked at the bibliography or the films. The studies were done in 2000-2002.

genetic studies produce DATA------in scientific papers -----
that is called "results"------there follows a comment---which is
an interpretation of the "results"------the interpretations can be
very very faulty-----in the cases you present------marred by bias and
agenda and simple stupidity-----it happens all the time. In fact islamo
Nazi ideology is based on interpretations of the data published by Darwin

 

[RoccoR]

et al,

Not all refugees are the same. In the case of Palestine, there are categories of persons eligible for registration and/or UNRWA services (categories of refugees). They are not all the same type and kind. Thus, I often find it hard to discuss the subject of refugees simply because most people use the term generically in a layman's context and not realistically in the real-world practical sense. To really talk about refugees intelligently, you have to speak CERI:

• Persons who meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria:
  • These are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict. Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services. The Agency accepts new applications from persons who wish to be registered as Palestine Refugees. Once they are registered with UNRWA, persons in this category are referred to as Registered Refugees or as Registered Palestine Refugees.

• Persons who do not meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria
  • These persons are grouped in the categories listed below. While registered for the purposes of receiving UNRWA services, these persons are not counted as part of the official Registered Refugee population of the Agency. They consist of persons who at the time of original registration did not satisfy all of UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria, but who were determined to have suffered significant loss and/or hardship for reasons related to the 1948 conflict in Palestine; they also include persons who belong to the families of Registered Persons. These categories are:
    • Jerusalem Poor and Gaza Poor
    • Frontier Villagers
    • Compromise Cases
    • MNR Family Members
    • Non-Refugee Wives
    • Kafalah Children

Then there are still more; persons eligible to receive UNRWA services without being registered in UNRWA’s Registration System. These persons do not meet, or are unable to prove that they meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria and they do not fall within any of the categories listed above. These might include the Non-registered persons displaced as
a result of the 1967 and subsequent hostilities. UNRWA makes its services available to persons in this category in accordance with established practice and/or host country agreement. In resolution 2252 of 4 July 1967 and in other subsequent resolutions.

And then there are Non-registered persons identified by the Commissioner-General as eligible to receive UNRWA services. For humanitarian and other policy reasons related to UNRWA’s mandate, the Commissioner-General or Field Directors acting on the Commissioner-General’s behalf may from time to time identify persons and groups of persons who are eligible to exceptionally receive UNRWA’s services.

And of course we cannot forget:

• Non-registered persons who exceptionally receive UNRWA assistance and services as beneficiaries under the Agency’s Emergency Programmes in the occupied Palestinian territory. These beneficiaries and their dependents are administered specifically for the purpose of the Emergency Programmes.
  • Non-registered persons who avail themselves of services provided under the Agency’s Microfinance and Microenterprise Department (MMD). These persons meet the MMD’s financial and lending criteria and are administered specifically for MMD’s purposes.
  • UNRWA Staff Members and their Family members may have access to Agency services in accordance with section V of these instructions as well as instructions issued by each of UNRWA’s programmes.
  • Non-registered persons who live in refugee camps and communities. These persons benefit from UNRWA services (e.g., sanitation and environmental health services) that are extended to refugee camps and communities as a whole.

In most cases, like that of the "right of return" - we are talking about "Registered Palestine Refugees" (860,000 persons according to the UNRWA census). And yes, the UNRWA says that "the 1948 registered refugees and their descendants now number five million, and mainly reside in the West Bank, Gaza, Jordan, Lebanon or Syria."

Now this is sort of strange. The Population of the West Bank was approximately 2,731,052 in 2010. And the population of the Gaza Strip is 1,816,379 (July 2014 est.). The "right of return" (5 million) would empty out two-thirds of the Gaza Strip (60%+) and a third of the West Bank (32%).

Now let's examine this.

Just how many parcels of land do you think were vacated in now Israeli sovereignty? Who is going to get what land and which Palestinians are going to pay for the property improvements and infrastructure upgrades? And how will the war reparations for the three wars (+) be apportioned among these Arab Palestinians that wish to return?

I'm looking for practical solutions - if there are any.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[irosie91]

I have a solution-----declare all the people of the world REFUGEES ------my ancestors
are refugees-------my ancestors lost all kinds of stuff with the break up of the
HAPSBURG EMPIRE Hubby's entire family-----are victims of the destruction of the
OTTOMAN EMPIRE

ALL PEOPLE OF THE INDIAN SUBCONTINENT----suffer the destruction of
THE MOGHUL EMPIRE (indian muslims and Pakistanis told me)

but there is more-----lots of people of the Indian subcontinent lost out to the
destruction of THE BRITISH EMPIRE (especially the death of Queen Victoria)

Mexicans lost Montezuma

 

[Phoenall]

et al,

Not all refugees are the same. In the case of Palestine, there are categories of persons eligible for registration and/or UNRWA services (categories of refugees). They are not all the same type and kind. Thus, I often find it hard to discuss the subject of refugees simply because most people use the term generically in a layman's context and not realistically in the real-world practical sense. To really talk about refugees intelligently, you have to speak CERI:

• Persons who meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria:
  • These are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict. Palestine Refugees, and descendants of Palestine refugee males, including legally adopted children, are eligible to register for UNRWA services. The Agency accepts new applications from persons who wish to be registered as Palestine Refugees. Once they are registered with UNRWA, persons in this category are referred to as Registered Refugees or as Registered Palestine Refugees.

• Persons who do not meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria
  • These persons are grouped in the categories listed below. While registered for the purposes of receiving UNRWA services, these persons are not counted as part of the official Registered Refugee population of the Agency. They consist of persons who at the time of original registration did not satisfy all of UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria, but who were determined to have suffered significant loss and/or hardship for reasons related to the 1948 conflict in Palestine; they also include persons who belong to the families of Registered Persons. These categories are:
    • Jerusalem Poor and Gaza Poor
    • Frontier Villagers
    • Compromise Cases
    • MNR Family Members
    • Non-Refugee Wives
    • Kafalah Children

Then there are still more; persons eligible to receive UNRWA services without being registered in UNRWA’s Registration System. These persons do not meet, or are unable to prove that they meet UNRWA’s Palestine Refugee criteria and they do not fall within any of the categories listed above. These might include the Non-registered persons displaced as
a result of the 1967 and subsequent hostilities. UNRWA makes its services available to persons in this category in accordance with established practice and/or host country agreement. In resolution 2252 of 4 July 1967 and in other subsequent resolutions.

And then there are Non-registered persons identified by the Commissioner-General as eligible to receive UNRWA services. For humanitarian and other policy reasons related to UNRWA’s mandate, the Commissioner-General or Field Directors acting on the Commissioner-General’s behalf may from time to time identify persons and groups of persons who are eligible to exceptionally receive UNRWA’s services.

And of course we cannot forget:

• Non-registered persons who exceptionally receive UNRWA assistance and services as beneficiaries under the Agency’s Emergency Programmes in the occupied Palestinian territory. These beneficiaries and their dependents are administered specifically for the purpose of the Emergency Programmes.
  • Non-registered persons who avail themselves of services provided under the Agency’s Microfinance and Microenterprise Department (MMD). These persons meet the MMD’s financial and lending criteria and are administered specifically for MMD’s purposes.
  • UNRWA Staff Members and their Family members may have access to Agency services in accordance with section V of these instructions as well as instructions issued by each of UNRWA’s programmes.
  • Non-registered persons who live in refugee camps and communities. These persons benefit from UNRWA services (e.g., sanitation and environmental health services) that are extended to refugee camps and communities as a whole.

In most cases, like that of the "right of return" - we are talking about "Registered Palestine Refugees" (860,000 persons according to the UNRWA census). And yes, the UNRWA says that "the 1948 registered refugees and their descendants now number five million, and mainly reside in the West Bank, Gaza, Jordan, Lebanon or Syria."

Now this is sort of strange. The Population of the West Bank was approximately 2,731,052 in 2010. And the population of the Gaza Strip is 1,816,379 (July 2014 est.). The "right of return" (5 million) would empty out two-thirds of the Gaza Strip (60%+) and a third of the West Bank (32%).

Now let's examine this.

Just how many parcels of land do you think were vacated in now Israeli sovereignty? Who is going to get what land and which Palestinians are going to pay for the property improvements and infrastructure upgrades? And how will the war reparations for the three wars (+) be apportioned among these Arab Palestinians that wish to return?

I'm looking for practical solutions - if there are any.

Most Respectfully,
R

Lets add to the confusion by getting Israelis to apply for refugee status, further diluting the amount of aid available to the Palestinian illegal immigrants. By doing so the UN will either be forced to bring a halt to UNRWA or go cap in hand to member states to increase the amount of available money. Then see the uproar as it is shown that the Palestinians have no need to talk peace while the UN and other agencies are piling $billions into gaza and the west bank to buy weapons with. It would not take much to bring a halt to weapons being smuggled into gaza if they have no money to buy the weapons with in the first place. With the advances in DNA science now would be a good time to start DNA testing of those claiming refugee status to ascertain their origins, and any that don't show a particular "Palestinian genetic fingerprint" to be taken of the books as genuine refugees. The more we can prove the frauds being committed the more the world will turn their backs on the Palestinian terrorists cause and the more likely we are to see a mutually agreed settlement of the problems in Palestine.

 

[irosie91]

[/LIST]


Lets add to the confusion by getting Israelis to apply for refugee status, further diluting the amount of aid available to the Palestinian illegal immigrants. By doing so the UN will either be forced to bring a halt to UNRWA or go cap in hand to member states to increase the amount of available money. Then see the uproar as it is shown that the Palestinians have no need to talk peace while the UN and other agencies are piling $billions into gaza and the west bank to buy weapons with. It would not take much to bring a halt to weapons being smuggled into gaza if they have no money to buy the weapons with in the first place. With the advances in DNA science now would be a good time to start DNA testing of those claiming refugee status to ascertain their origins, and any that don't show a particular "Palestinian genetic fingerprint" to be taken of the books as genuine refugees. The more we can prove the frauds being committed the more the world will turn their backs on the Palestinian terrorists cause and the more likely we are to see a mutually agreed settlement of the problems in Palestine.

Seems to me that just about every jew in the world is a "REFUGEE" ----if you use the
""pali"" criteria------but---lets be serious-----jews can't get away with that stuff----there
are LOTS OF OTHER candidates India's Kolkata (Calcutta) is glutted with
hindu Bengali refugees from the erstwhile EAST PAKISTAN. That happened
more recently than 1948 and is far more tragic (1971) For tens millions more---
examine----AFRICA (maybe hundreds millions more) The world is CHEATING
them

the victims of (well---lets face it---muslim aggression) in south
east asia and Africa ---- face a situation that makes Gaza look like
PARADISE

 

[Phoenall]

[/LIST]


Lets add to the confusion by getting Israelis to apply for refugee status, further diluting the amount of aid available to the Palestinian illegal immigrants. By doing so the UN will either be forced to bring a halt to UNRWA or go cap in hand to member states to increase the amount of available money. Then see the uproar as it is shown that the Palestinians have no need to talk peace while the UN and other agencies are piling $billions into gaza and the west bank to buy weapons with. It would not take much to bring a halt to weapons being smuggled into gaza if they have no money to buy the weapons with in the first place. With the advances in DNA science now would be a good time to start DNA testing of those claiming refugee status to ascertain their origins, and any that don't show a particular "Palestinian genetic fingerprint" to be taken of the books as genuine refugees. The more we can prove the frauds being committed the more the world will turn their backs on the Palestinian terrorists cause and the more likely we are to see a mutually agreed settlement of the problems in Palestine.

Seems to me that just about every jew in the world is a "REFUGEE" ----if you use the
""pali"" criteria------but---lets be serious-----jews can't get away with that stuff----there
are LOTS OF OTHER candidates India's Kolkata (Calcutta) is glutted with
hindu Bengali refugees from the erstwhile EAST PAKISTAN. That happened
more recently than 1948 and is far more tragic (1971) For tens millions more---
examine----AFRICA (maybe hundreds millions more) The world is CHEATING
them

the victims of (well---lets face it---muslim aggression) in south
east asia and Africa ---- face a situation that makes Gaza look like
PARADISE

Will the UNRWA be prepared to take on none Palestinian refugees, which is why I said for the Jews in Israel to apply being Palestinians. Should create a problem for the Palestinians when they have to supply Israel with food, water, money etc

 

[irosie91]

Seems to me that just about every jew in the world is a "REFUGEE" ----if you use the
""pali"" criteria------but---lets be serious-----jews can't get away with that stuff----there
are LOTS OF OTHER candidates India's Kolkata (Calcutta) is glutted with
hindu Bengali refugees from the erstwhile EAST PAKISTAN. That happened
more recently than 1948 and is far more tragic (1971) For tens millions more---
examine----AFRICA (maybe hundreds millions more) The world is CHEATING
them

the victims of (well---lets face it---muslim aggression) in south
east asia and Africa ---- face a situation that makes Gaza look like
PARADISE

Will the UNRWA be prepared to take on none Palestinian refugees, which is why I said for the Jews in Israel to apply being Palestinians. Should create a problem for the Palestinians when they have to supply Israel with food, water, money etc

Good idea Phoen----but just not practical------it would be seen world-wide as the ULTIMATE
CHUTZPAH ---------besides----------there are far more PRESSING NEEDS---------besides----
if the Sudanese Christians were (as is proper) declared REFUGEES-----it would also help
the strain in Israel---------be not greedy------try to get what is reasonably gettable and ease
GRADUALLY into a balanced situation

 

[Indeependent]

Amity,
Do you realize the danger you are putting the West Bank Jordanians in?
If any terrorists groups actually believe you, they will slaughter these "Jews".

 

[Indeependent]

Amity,
Do you realize the danger you are putting the West Bank Jordanians in?
If any terrorists groups actually believe you, they will slaughter these "Jews".

 

[irosie91]

Well, one thing we can say is that 100% of the Zionist "refugees" to Palestine during the 20th century and shortly before were not born in Palestine and should not have been considered refugees.

Your statement ------as usual------makes no sense and reflects gross ignorance----assuming you
wish to be in any way honest or consistent. Persons which you and your perverse colleagues
call "refugees" are anyone who either lived in what is today Israel or is a descendant of a person
who lived in Israel for two years. BTW who is "we" ? persons who share your non grasp of
population genetics? Many many jews were born in Palestine during the 19th and 20th centuries
and because of the filth you adulate -----were forced by violence to leave their homes and flee to the
part of Palestine which became Israel -----why are they and their descendants "not refugees"???
The entire jewish community of east Jerusalem was displaced in 1947-8 and the entire
jewish community of Hebron in 1929 -----prior to the filth you support -----there were jews in
gaza-----the stink you adulate even displaced jews from places like Bethlehem. Is being born in
british mandate Palestine a requirement for the status of "refugee"???

 

[amity1844]

Amity,
Do you realize the danger you are putting the West Bank Jordanians in?
If any terrorists groups actually believe you, they will slaughter these "Jews".

I guess you've got nothing to fear, then. There ARE no West Bank Jordanians, remember?

 

[amity1844]

Well, one thing we can say is that 100% of the Zionist "refugees" to Palestine during the 20th century and shortly before were not born in Palestine and should not have been considered refugees.

Your statement ------as usual------makes no sense and reflects gross ignorance----assuming you
wish to be in any way honest or consistent. Persons which you and your perverse colleagues
call "refugees" are anyone who either lived in what is today Israel or is a descendant of a person
who lived in Israel for two years. BTW who is "we" ? persons who share your non grasp of
population genetics? Many many jews were born in Palestine during the 19th and 20th centuries
and because of the filth you adulate -----were forced by violence to leave their homes and flee to the
part of Palestine which became Israel -----why are they and their descendants "not refugees"???
The entire jewish community of east Jerusalem was displaced in 1947-8 and the entire
jewish community of Hebron in 1929 -----prior to the filth you support -----there were jews in
gaza-----the stink you adulate even displaced jews from places like Bethlehem. Is being born in
british mandate Palestine a requirement for the status of "refugee"???

irosie, omg, your writing is atrocious. So do you mean Jews in the proposed Palestinian state? I suppose they left because that is what was agreed on by Zionist leadership. 1/3 of the population, owning 7% of the land, were accorded half of the territory. and wound up grabbing SO much more, and terrorizing and evicting at gunpoint the overwhelming majority of Palestinians in the territory they conquered. And the Jews who went to the Jewish state WERE treated as refugees by the Jewish state. I believe they were largely settled in the homes of Arabs who were evicted.

 

[irosie91]

Well, one thing we can say is that 100% of the Zionist "refugees" to Palestine during the 20th century and shortly before were not born in Palestine and should not have been considered refugees.

Your statement ------as usual------makes no sense and reflects gross ignorance----assuming you
wish to be in any way honest or consistent. Persons which you and your perverse colleagues
call "refugees" are anyone who either lived in what is today Israel or is a descendant of a person
who lived in Israel for two years. BTW who is "we" ? persons who share your non grasp of
population genetics? Many many jews were born in Palestine during the 19th and 20th centuries
and because of the filth you adulate -----were forced by violence to leave their homes and flee to the
part of Palestine which became Israel -----why are they and their descendants "not refugees"???
The entire jewish community of east Jerusalem was displaced in 1947-8 and the entire
jewish community of Hebron in 1929 -----prior to the filth you support -----there were jews in
gaza-----the stink you adulate even displaced jews from places like Bethlehem. Is being born in
british mandate Palestine a requirement for the status of "refugee"???

irosie, omg, your writing is atrocious. So do you mean Jews in the proposed Palestinian state? I suppose they left because that is what was agreed on by Zionist leadership. 1/3 of the population, owning 7% of the land, were accorded half of the territory. and wound up grabbing SO much more, and terrorizing and evicting at gunpoint the overwhelming majority of Palestinians in the territory they conquered. And the Jews who went to the Jewish state WERE treated as refugees by the Jewish state. I believe they were largely settled in the homes of Arabs who were evicted.

your statement and suppositions are entirely erroneous. you parrot filth.

What "proposed Palestinian state"??? Jews left Hebron in 1929 because they were
attacked and murdered by your heroes who enjoy slitting the throats of infants----
the survivors faced the filth you endorse-----they had to be rescued from the filth
you adulate. Their lands and homes were stolen in accordance with the filth you
endorse ----more of the filth you endorse in east Jerusalem 1947-8.
You have some link to that EVICTION AT GUN POINT ERUCTATION
you parrot? The jews who fled the stink and filth of arab lands and islamo Nazism
in Europe were refugees------they lived in temporary housing built by the
jews who were already there. The houses that the jews left in shariah
cesspits were stolen by arabs. Lots of arabs living in stinking mud floor huts
in Israel and Judea were told that they should leave the area and join up with
mujahadin in local arab cesspits ----because the mujahadin would conquer the
area turn it into a shariah cesspit and they could all be local sheiks

 

[amity1844]

blah-blah-blah

I now regret ever having voiced any sympathy whatsoever.

We have pointed out that Israel very recklessly and often quite DELIBERATELY kills random innocent Palestinians in a HUGE disproportion to Israelis. I even posted about Sabra and Shatila, where Israel sponsored the slaughter of multiple thousands of unarmed Palestinian civilians in a single day. I have posted videos showing dozens of lifeless Palestinian babies being pulled out of the wreckage of Israeli bombing. I have repeatedly questioned whether non-Jewish life means ANYTHING AT ALL to the Z's on this forum. And I have yet to hear even a murmur of empathy from the Z's for innocent non-Jews of any age and of any means of death. Literally not one of you Z's has expressed even superficial concern.

I have just had an epiphany on this subject and accordingly from now on I have a new policy.

Historically certain alleged "conflicts" have proven to be so lopsided in origin, in power, and in murderous intent that it is absurd to speak of the parties in said "conflicts" as equal belligerents, equally morally responsible for their actions. Rather its obvious that these are not conflicts at all, because one side can easily be seen to be pure unprovoked aggressors, whilst the other side consists clearly of pure victims.

IOW, although acts of violence and even atrocities may be committed by both parties, when looking at the full scope of events it becomes crystal clear that one side is purely offensive, the other purely defensive. That is, one group was sitting peacefully minding its own business and another vastly more powerful group picked a fight with them in the service of its own interests.

Sadly there have been too many of these "conflicts," but mention of a couple should serve to illustrate what I am talking about.

1) Turkish/Armenian .... not a conflict. The Armenians were pure non-aggressive victims.
2) Nazi/Jewish ............ not a conflict. The Jews were pure non-aggressive victims.
3) Zionist/Palestinian ... not a conflict. The Palestinians were/are pure non-aggressive victims.

And mama ain't gonna blame the victims any more.

 

[P F Tinmore]

blah-blah-blah

I now regret ever having voiced any sympathy whatsoever.

We have pointed out that Israel very recklessly and often quite DELIBERATELY kills random innocent Palestinians in a HUGE disproportion to Israelis. I even posted about Sabra and Shatila, where Israel sponsored the slaughter of multiple thousands of unarmed Palestinian civilians in a single day. I have posted videos showing dozens of lifeless Palestinian babies being pulled out of the wreckage of Israeli bombing. I have repeatedly questioned whether non-Jewish life means ANYTHING AT ALL to the Z's on this forum. And I have yet to hear even a murmur of empathy from the Z's for innocent non-Jews of any age and of any means of death. Literally not one of you Z's has expressed even superficial concern.

I have just had an epiphany on this subject and accordingly from now on I have a new policy.

Historically certain alleged "conflicts" have proven to be so lopsided in origin, in power, and in murderous intent that it is absurd to speak of the parties in said "conflicts" as equal belligerents, equally morally responsible for their actions. Rather its obvious that these are not conflicts at all, because one side can easily be seen to be pure unprovoked aggressors, whilst the other side consists clearly of pure victims.

IOW, although acts of violence and even atrocities may be committed by both parties, when looking at the full scope of events it becomes crystal clear that one side is purely offensive, the other purely defensive. That is, one group was sitting peacefully minding its own business and another vastly more powerful group picked a fight with them in the service of its own interests.

Sadly there have been too many of these "conflicts," but mention of a couple should serve to illustrate what I am talking about.

1) Turkish/Armenian .... not a conflict. The Armenians were pure non-aggressive victims.
2) Nazi/Jewish ............ not a conflict. The Jews were pure non-aggressive victims.
3) Zionist/Palestinian ... not a conflict. The Palestinians were/are pure non-aggressive victims.

And mama ain't gonna blame the victims any more.

That is true. The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when the Zionists went to Palestine to take over the country.

The Zionist's position was, and still is, aggressive.

The Palestinian's position was, and still is, defensive.

There can be no question about it.

 

[rhodescholar]

3) Zionist/Palestinian ... not a conflict. The Palestinians were/are pure non-aggressive victims.

To even dream of this lunacy is a sign of mental illness, and complete vacuum of facts or reality. Please stop discussing this topic, you are making the pro-arab side look incredibly stupid.

 

[MJB12741]

While what the Arab countries did to to their Palestinians by massacring them by the tens of thousandss & leaving tens of thousands of others as refugees is hard to forgive, let us not forget what those Zionists in Israel did to them with peace oferings, a security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel when all the noble peace loving, life loving Palestinians want is to be free from Israel. Want peace? First this entire damn Zionist agenda has to go. Israel must find some incentive to offer the surrounding Arab countries to grant their Palestinians a right of return back to their indigenous homelands. LET THERE BE PEACE ALREADY!

I can't imagine all these so-called refugees who have probably made successful lives for themselves elsewhere would be willing to leave a country to go somewhere they have never been. Would they do this to spite the Jews or is everyone pushing these people on only fooling themselves that these millions of people will just simply pack their bags and go.

Who—and How Many—Are the Palestinian Refugees?
How, under the auspices of the UN Relief and Works Agency, can their numbers have exploded from 650,000 in 1948 to more than five million today?

In 1948, some 650,000 Arabs fled from Israel during Israel's war of independence against six invading Arab armies. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) was then formed to provide humanitarian aid to those Arab refugees. Sixty-five years later, UNRWA has grown into a huge, half-a-billion-dollar-a-year bureaucracy that claims a constituency of five million Palestinian-Arab refugees. How has the number of Palestinian refugees grown so dramatically? Is UNRWA helping resettle the refugees, or is it exacerbating the problem? Finally, why would the Palestinian Authority in negotiations for a Palestinian state insist that these refugees be moved to Israel?

What are the facts?

UNRWA's original definition of a refugee was someone "whose normal place of residencewas Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict." UNRWA began by providing emergency assistance, temporary shelters and basic relief. Soon after, UNRWA helped resettle the refugees in permanent housing and create educational and health institutions. But, unlike the treatment of refugees in all other wars, UNRWA dramatically and inexplicably expanded the definition of "refugee" to include descendants of Palestinian refugees.

Today, UNRWA claims more than five million Palestinian refugees, most of whom are in fact descendants and have never lived in Israel. UNRWA currently employs 30,000 people, mostly Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank. The organization receives more than $600 million annually to serve these people, almost 40% of which comes from the U. S., and the Palestinian economy has become absolutely dependent on this aid.

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The Most Practical Solution to the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict