Zone1 Which came first, Christianity or Judaism?

[Woodznutz]

Can you point to the "atonement sacrifices" which were presented on each of the holidays and were removed? Atonement was an element to specific holidays and sacrifices (and, according to one reckoning, part of the daily sacrifice) but was not part of the sacrifices delineated for a variety of other holidays.

In Jewish tradition does the day of atonement involve a "goat for the Lord", and, a "goat for Azazel"? And what are their meanings? Why two distinctly different 'sin' offerings?

 

[hobelim]

Faith in Christ saves us from eternal death.

Sure it does. If y'all understand what Jesus taught and do it. And what Jesus clearly taught was to comply with the Divine commands (Matthew 5:17-20) if y'all hope to escape the condemnation of hell which y'all openly and brazenly don't so what does that tell y'all if not that y'all do not have faith in Jesus and are obviously accursed because y'all are oblivious to your irrational delusions.

Some salvation. You don't even have an inkling how absurd it is for y'all to claim to be saved.

What a loser!

 

[Woodznutz]

Sure it does. If y'all understand what Jesus taught and do it. And what Jesus clearly taught was to comply with the Divine commands (Matthew 5:17-20) if y'all hope to escape the condemnation of hell which y'all openly and brazenly don't so what does that tell y'all if not that y'all do not have faith in Jesus and are obviously accursed because y'all are oblivious to your irrational delusions.

Some salvation. You don't even have an inkling how absurd it is for y'all to claim to be saved.

What a loser!

If I'm in a 'state of grace' I'm a winner.

 

[hobelim]

sheeeesh! Hobie----"HUMAN SACRIFICE" ??? shades of Moloch or Dagan or whatevah

Exactly. They love Jesus so much that they celebrate his suffering and death and then eat him.

Yum!

 

[hobelim]

If I'm in a 'state of grace' I'm a winner.

 

[BreezeWood]

Faith in Christ saves us from eternal death ...

for what was alive and well, why would you need faith to satisfy your need - you have no concrete evidence jesus was what you claim them to be.

That's why it's called faith.

that was not the question, why do you need faith for what occurred, the 1st century events and its conclusion ... were what the c-bible claims is true or not.

than jesus was the reaffirmation of the original heavenly prescription granted a&e for their journey of self determination and remission to the everlasting.

do you through jesus renounce judaism and their false commandments and hereditary idolatry. and the reaffirmation of the heavenly religion of antiquity.

 

[rosends]

I fully agree, but 'reading between the lines' must agree with the actual context of the 'lines'.

there is no reading between the lines and one cannot fully understand the context of the lines without complementary information.

 

[rosends]

In Jewish tradition does the day of atonement involve a "goat for the Lord", and, a "goat for Azazel"? And what are their meanings? Why two distinctly different 'sin' offerings?

In our current practice, after the loss of the temple, we do not perform animal sacrifice so the ritual of the lottery and 2 goats is not part of our practice now. There are a variety of relevant offerings including certain ones for particular sins, and some for "guilt" which is different from sin.

 

[AsherN]

In Jewish tradition does the day of atonement involve a "goat for the Lord", and, a "goat for Azazel"? And what are their meanings? Why two distinctly different 'sin' offerings?

Because we atone differently for transgression against G-d and transgressions against man. The first is done through prayer, the second through asking the person for forgiveness.

 

[AsherN]

there is no reading between the lines and one cannot fully understand the context of the lines without complementary information.

For example, 1,000 years from now someone finds a copy of the Highway Traffic Act that states that you must have a valid driver's license. Without text explaining what a driver's license is, it is meaningless .

 

[BreezeWood]

Probably because your Christ has nothing to do with Judaism. may I suggest remedial education on Judaism?

there is no christ that was not the reason for the jewish execution of jesus - liberation theology, self determination - is the crime the jews are guilty of committing and entwines them forever till they are brought to justice. as their false commandments be stricken than used to persecute and victimize the innocent by the execution they relied on for their perpetuity.

 

[hobelim]

In Jewish tradition does the day of atonement involve a "goat for the Lord",

Exactly.

Like I said to you before, "You, a he-goat 'without blemish', have been carefully chosen and prepared as an offering for the expiation of sin. Your slaughter has been dedicated to the Lord."

Your throat has been cut with such kindness and skill that you do not even realize that your blood has been quietly draining into the ground, the flesh stripped away from your broken bones, the fat trimmed from the flesh and thrown on the fire making a soothing and fragrant offering to the Lord.

Soon the festivities will begin! Myriads who hunger to see righteousness prevail will be satisfied.

 

[AsherN]

there is no christ that was not the reason for the jewish execution of jesus - liberation theology, self determination - is the crime the jews are guilty of committing and entwines them forever till they are brought to justice. as their false commandments be stricken than used to persecute and victimize the innocent by the execution they relied on for their perpetuity.

Just wow. You have a real hard-on for trying to eliminate Judaism, don't you?

 

[irosie91]

LOL @ THE JELLY BEAN SAVIOR-----as in
"gawd save the queen" -----and "jesus saves, moses invests"
"krishnah recycles"

Just wow. You have a real hard-on for trying to eliminate Judaism, don't you?

the ritual of the slaughter of a goat does not come close in SPIRITUALITY
to the glory of the basket of jelly-beans

 

[Woodznutz]

that was not the question, why do you need faith for what occurred, the 1st century events and its conclusion ... were what the c-bible claims is true or not.

than jesus was the reaffirmation of the original heavenly prescription granted a&e for their journey of self determination and remission to the everlasting.

do you through jesus renounce judaism and their false commandments and hereditary idolatry. and the reaffirmation of the heavenly religion of antiquity.

The 'heavenly prescription' doesn't include 'self determination' (lifting oneself up by your own bootstraps).

I'm not a Jew, therefore I can't 'renounce' Judaism.

 

[Woodznutz]

there is no reading between the lines and one cannot fully understand the context of the lines without complementary information.

Explain the reason for not wearing leather shoes on Yom Kippur.

 

[rosends]

Explain the reason for not wearing of leather shoes on Atonement.

There are 5 "inuyim" or forms of suffering on the day of atonement, all designed to have us focus on the spiritual not the physical. So we refrain from eating/drinking, from washing, wearing lotions/cosmetics, physical intimacy and wearing leather shoes.

 

[Woodznutz]

In our current practice, after the loss of the temple, we do not perform animal sacrifice so the ritual of the lottery and 2 goats is not part of our practice now. There are a variety of relevant offerings including certain ones for particular sins, and some for "guilt" which is different from sin.

Which of the goats was for which? If the sins of the people were placed on the 'escaped' goat as scripture says then the guilt is placed on the 'goat for the Lord', correct? What is the Lord guilty of?

 

[Woodznutz]

There are 5 "inuyim" or forms of suffering on the day of atonement, all designed to have us focus on the spiritual not the physical. So we refrain from eating/drinking, from washing, wearing lotions/cosmetics, physical intimacy and wearing leather shoes.

In order to 'suffer' you would have to go barefoot, right? My sneakers are actually more comfortable than my leather dress shoes.

Why is abstaining from those other things 'suffering'. God only requires abstinence from food and drink. Seems to me that you are trying to outdo God with extra requirements.

 

[rosends]

Which of the goats was for which? If the sins of the people were placed on the 'escaped' goat as scripture says then the guilt is placed on the 'goat for the Lord', correct?

Neither was "escaped" but one had a function of helping effect atonement through being pushed off a cliff.

The Scapegoat | Aish

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