Zone1 Which came first, Christianity or Judaism?

[rosends]

Already posted, several times. You keep claiming otherwise, which means you don't read links at all, so just keep lying about your Orthodox and Hasidim super racists. We don't mind. The modes here will censor anything you don't like, so just snivel to one of them.

No only didn't you post any evidence or back up your claim, but I also posted the entire body of Jewish prayer and you didn't point to anything in it that justified your claim.

I can post it again for you. And I can post links to codes of jewish law. You won't find anything in them to support what you say. That makes you a liar. Care to prove otherwise?

 

[hobelim]

You go on with your sad and crazy world view. Keep repeating the same lies and mistakes and shouting them into your echo chamber. Someday, if you have any actual questions about Judaism because you realize how insane your contentions are, feel free to ask.

"They pay no heed to the real hidden meaning of things, but divert themselves instead with all kinds of iniquitous arcane lore. They do not know the hidden meaning of what is actually taking place, nor have they ever understood the lessons of the past. Consequently, they have no knowledge of what is coming upon them and have done nothing to save their souls from the deeper implications of present events."

 

[hobelim]

Let's choose one topic at a time. Choose one of the many topics we are debating. The meaning of Elohim, the meaning of the word for worship..etc. Choose one.

In a previous post you claimed, "Only a few very wicked human beings will be subjected to the second death". Tuesday at 11:30 AM to which I responded:

"If the death consequent to setting aside the Divine commands is the first death and the second death is the death of the body, physical death, then everyone is subjected to the second death but only those who take part in the first resurrection, rev. 20:6, cannot be harmed by the second death and are not subject to judgment because they have already risen from death to eternal life.

For some mysterious reason you did not reply. At all. Can you explain why? And then tell me what you profess to believe the second death represents. And please stop posting in all caps. Its rude.

Damn.

If you don't know your A, B, C's, why are pretending to know how to read? Jesus made you do it?

 

[irosie91]

Already posted, several times. You keep claiming otherwise, which means you don't read links at all, so just keep lying about your Orthodox and Hasidim super racists. We don't mind. The modes here will censor anything you don't like, so just snivel to one of them.

Mr. dud flees again

 

[hobelim]

The only begotten son of YHWH, as in the only angel that was ever conceived in a woman's womb, and born human.

psalm 2:7

"I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."

That right there makes two begottenings.

"Never let your brotherly love fail, nor refuse to extend your hospitality to strangers, for by so doing many have entertained angels unaware."

Isn't this, showing hospitality to strangers, about being kind to angels with human mothers?

You really should take your impressive wealth of irrational wisdom, (all the garbage that has accumulated in your addled mind), throw it in the trash, and just go back to the drawing board.

Or find another hobby. You suck at acting. Psst. Don't spit in the wind, don't jerk off in public, and remember, you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you.

 

[DudleySmith]

Mr. dud flees again

Rosie plays stupid again.

 

[DudleySmith]

No only didn't you post any evidence or back up your claim, but I also posted the entire body of Jewish prayer and you didn't point to anything in it that justified your claim.

You mean you posted 'revised' prayers you peddle to the unwashed goyim. The real prayers are in the Talmud, the parts you pretend don't exist. lol

 

[DudleySmith]

No only didn't you post any evidence or back up your claim, but I also posted the entire body of Jewish prayer and you didn't point to anything in it that justified your claim.

I can post it again for you. And I can post links to codes of jewish law. You won't find anything in them to support what you say. That makes you a liar. Care to prove otherwise?

Already posted my sources, several times. You didn't read them then, you didn't read them the last time I posted just recently. You keep on being you, another Orthodox racist apologist. There are still plenty of gullible Christians who still think you counterfeits are 'real Jews' of the OT and will continue to fall for the con jobs.

 

[irosie91]

You mean you posted 'revised' prayers you peddle to the unwashed goyim. The real prayers are in the Talmud, the parts you pretend don't exist. lol

citation-----from the talmud ?????????????

 

[BreezeWood]

You really should take your impressive wealth of irrational wisdom ...

hobo, the c-man is quite learned - the joo's hate him. to bad he's christian.


whatever - their 2nd adam ... what happened to the 1st.

 

[DudleySmith]

citation-----from the talmud ?????????????

Yes, as I said, already posted several times. Scares you eh? Some Jews will print the Talmud as is, now special editing and censoring, like you wish were the case. Tel Aviv University also still has scholars who are honest and don't hide unpleasant facts about the Jewish versions of Nazis.

 

[hobelim]

hobo, the c-man is quite learned - the joo's hate him. to bad he's christian.

Hate him? I doubt it. It seems they felt sorry for him until he proved himself to be a fraud.

whatever - their 2nd adam ... what happened to the 1st.

Didn't you ever read the story? The sweat of his brow, thinking, only produced thorns and thistles.

What a way to go through life, with a brain that bears no fruit. Must be like torture, even if the warning was ignored and defiance deliberately chosen. Its a very sad story, self determination.

The world is full of people who have self determined themselves into a bottomless pit. Even you.

So God drove the man out, and to the east of Eden he stationed the Cherubim with a flaming and flashing sword, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life."

 

[BreezeWood]

Hate him? I doubt it. It seems they felt sorry for him until he proved himself to be a fraud ... Didn't you ever read the story?

- never good to read books of evil ...

Then God said, “Let us make life in our image, in our likeness, the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky the livestock and all the wild animals, and all the creatures that move along the ground.”

our version would have to lead the way to read further ... life - is the heavenly on earth.

- religion is spoken not read.

 

[irosie91]

Yes, as I said, already posted several times. Scares you eh? Some Jews will print the Talmud as is, now special editing and censoring, like you wish were the case. Tel Aviv University also still has scholars who are honest and don't hide unpleasant facts about the Jewish versions of Nazis.

"scares"? there is something in the talmud of which to be "scared" I read the
book and never got "scared"----Somehow you are UNABLE to cite the
"SCARY stuff" try to be brave.....

 

[rosends]

You mean you posted 'revised' prayers you peddle to the unwashed goyim. The real prayers are in the Talmud, the parts you pretend don't exist. lol

"Revised" prayers? You mean you couldn't find what you claim so instead you claim that he prayers were changed? That's hilarious. Here is a link to the whole talmud. Let me know when you find what you claim, and then we can discuss if it something that Jews say everyday.

שישה סדרי תלמוד בבלי

mechon-mamre.org

oh wait...I just read that you believe that the talmud has been revised and censored.

It has. We have entire books of the changes that were forced on us by outsiders or that we put in so that outsiders wouldn't kill us. Would you like links to that

HebrewBooks.org Sefer Detail: חסרונות הש"ס -- רבי שמעון ור

Over 40,000 Seforim/Hebrew books for Free in PDF Format. Rambam, Shas, Meforshim in text format.

www.hebrewbooks.org

Identification of Censored Areas of Talmud

Unfortunately, the Talmud and other writings have been subject to censorship since their completion. These alterations seem still to be present in many modern editions of the Talmud. How comprehen...

judaism.stackexchange.com

Chesronot haShas sources

On a recent Daf Yomi, Sanhedrin 107b, there is a long passage that was censored by non-Jews. It has been discussed here, whether we should still learn the omitted parts or not. At one such question...

judaism.stackexchange.com

 

[rosends]

Already posted my sources, several times. You didn't read them then, you didn't read them the last time I posted just recently. You keep on being you, another Orthodox racist apologist. There are still plenty of gullible Christians who still think you counterfeits are 'real Jews' of the OT and will continue to fall for the con jobs.

I read the links you provided (and catalogued them for others to know what they are). What you claim simply isn't in there. If you can't show me otherwise then just admit it. You are ignorant and a liar. But keep lying -- there are plenty of people who will love you hear your claim and not see any proof and know how false you are.

 

[TruthNotBS]

In a previous post you claimed, "Only a few very wicked human beings will be subjected to the second death". Tuesday at 11:30 AM to which I responded:

"If the death consequent to setting aside the Divine commands is the first death and the second death is the death of the body, physical death, then everyone is subjected to the second death but only those who take part in the first resurrection, rev. 20:6, cannot be harmed by the second death and are not subject to judgment because they have already risen from death to eternal life.

For some mysterious reason you did not reply. At all. Can you explain why? And then tell me what you profess to believe the second death represents. And please stop posting in all caps. Its rude.

Damn.

If you don't know your A, B, C's, why are pretending to know how to read? Jesus made you do it?

Using caps for EMPHASIS isn't necessarily rude unless you're a hypersensitive, anal-retentive crybaby. Then it's always rude.

All mankind is made up of Three Categories. Each Category has its own Eternal Destiny.

The First Category contains Two Classifications of people who do evil: the Unjust and the Filthy.

The Unjust take advantage of others for their own selfish gain.

​

Luk 1:52-53 "He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree. (53) He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away."

1Ti_6:9 "But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition."

Mar_10:25 "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of Elohim."

Not Impossible, but difficult.


The Filthy ruin the lives of others with their moral corruption.

The Second Category is made up of those who do good: called the Righteous (or Just).

The Righteous are the “good people” of every nation and culture who live according to the dictates of their conscience. They fear God and respect other human beings. Good folks.


The Third Category is the Holy (set apart for and in Mashiach).

The holy live entirely for the One who redeemed them (and hence for each other, as one body in Mashiach).

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Act 4:32-37 "And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that any of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. (33) And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Master Yehoshua: and great grace was upon them all. (34) Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, (35) And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. (36) And Joseph, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation, a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, (37) Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet."


Act 2:43-45 "And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. (44) And all that believed were together, and had all things common; (45) And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need."

​

Joh 17:21-23 "that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou didst send me. (22) And the glory which thou hast given me I have given unto them; that they may be one, even as we are one; (23) I in them, and thou in me, that they may be perfected into one; that the world may know that thou didst send me, and lovedst them, even as thou lovedst me."

In Mashiach, We Are One.​

Mat 6:27-33 "Which of you while anxious can add one cubit unto his stature? (28) And why are you anxious about clothes? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: (29) And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his dignity was not arrayed like one of these. (30) Wherefore if Elohim so clothe the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? (31) Therefore do not be anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (32) For after all these things do the Gentiles seek: for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. (33) But seek ye first His kingdom and righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you."


Mar 10:28-31 "Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. (29) Jesus said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or mother, or father, or children, or lands, for my sake, and for the gospel's sake, (30) but he shall receive a hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. (31) But many that are first shall be last; and the last first."

Luk 12:32-34 "Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom. (33) Sell that ye have, and give alms; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth. (34) For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."

Joh_15:17 These things I command you, that ye may love one another.

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, that ye love one another, even as I have loved you.
Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Joh_15:9 Even as the Father hath loved me, I also have loved you: abide ye in my love.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Luk 14:27 "Whosoever doth not bear his own cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple."

Luk 14:34 "Salt, therefore, is good: but if even the salt have lost its savor, wherewith shall it be seasoned?
Luk 14:35 It is fit neither for the land nor for the dunghill: men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear."

Mat 25: 41-46 "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels: (42) for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink; (43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. (44) Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? (45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me. (46) And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life."

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Revelation 22:11 pictures each Eternal Destiny as the outcome of a way of life:

“He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

This means that the way a person chooses to live now is how he will be forever. This is why it says “unjust still... filthy still... righteous still... holy still.” Still means always. 1 Acts 10:35 2 Rom 2:14-16 3 2 Cor 5:15 4 1 Pet 2:9; Dan 2:44

For all the people in all the Nations of the world, there will be a judgment. This judgment will be based on what they have done, regardless of what they claim to believe.

“Do not be surprised at this; the time is coming when all the dead in the graves will hear His voice, and they will come out of their graves: those who have done good will rise and live, and those who have done evil will rise and be condemned.” (John 5:28-29)

“The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.” (Revelation 20:13)

“God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.” (Romans 2:6-8)

The people in each of the Three Categories of Mankind will exist eternally in a place that has been prepared:

The Unjust and the Filthy will go to the place prepared for Satan and his angels:

The death from which there is no recourse. YHWH forgets you. ​

The Second Death in the Eternal Lake of Fire.

The Righteous will go to the place that has been prepared for them since the world began, enjoying a Second Life in the Nations of God’s Eternal Kingdom.

The holy will experience Eternal Life in the place prepared for YHWH's people (Mashiach's royal family, His talmidim/disciples). They will be His dwelling place forever, metaphorically called the Holy City, New Jerusalem the Bride of Messiah.

The judgment of those who do Evil will be fair. No one is born unjust or filthy. People make themselves that way through the things they do. All are born with the knowledge of God in their conscience. They instinctively know right from wrong. The unjust and the filthy do not like to retain that knowledge. Both classes break the Everlasting Covenant of conscience and callous their hearts by ignoring the truth. As a result, they hurt others and lead others astray from doing what is right. Thus they earn for themselves the fate of Satan and his fallen angels. At the judgment, the Second Death will be their Eternal Destiny.

Matt 25:41,46; Rev 20:14; 21:8 6 Matt 25:34; Rev 21:24,26; 22:2 7 1 Pet 2:9 8 Rev 21:9-12 9 Rom 1:28; Gen 3:22 10 Isa 24:5,6; Gen 3:16-19; 9:1-7 11 Rev 20:11-15 12 Matt 25:46 4

The judgment of those who do Good will be fair. The Righteous stood within the boundaries of their divenly created conscience. They are born in a fallen state, and so they DO sin, but they do not reject the instinctive Knowledge of Good and Evil within them. Instead they obey their conscience; they do not sin so as to ruin others.

So, after paying for their sins in death (the act of dying and the suffering that follows, is payment for their sin, without meriting a resurrection or eternal life), they will rise from the First Death, thank's to the merits of Mashiach's life, and they will have their day in court (they will stand before the divine council/sod). They will not suffer the Second Death because they do not deserve it. It's that simple. YHWH grants them eternal life.

The judgment of the holy will also be fair. The holy have already been judged worthy of Eternal Life in this dying world. They do not need to face the judgment that decides a person’s Eternal Destiny. They will not go to a Second Life among the Nations in a renewed Earth and Universe, or to a Second Death in the Lake of Fire. They have already passed out of Eternal Death and into Eternal Life in this life, by laying down their lives in this temporal, corrupt world, carrying their crosses and following Mashiach. They died before they died.
Joh_12:25 "He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal."

This is evident from the daily life of self-denying love that they lead. Seeing that they would be willing to do His will, God redeemed them with the death of His Son, Messiah Yehoshua, and set them apart for His very own plan and purpose.

Their response of wholehearted devotion to Mashiach, shows that His suffering in Death for them was worthwhile. He said they will prove themselves worthy of Him by obeying the gospel and leaving behind their own life, property, possessions, family, etc EVERYTHING. to become His disciples.

Those who do not respond this way judge themselves as unworthy of Eternal Life. He makes those who do respond into a New Nation who live their lives entirely for Him. Those who obey Him fully will never see death at all, not even the First Death (death for the disciples is different than for non-disciples). The disciples will reign with Mashiach over the Nations in the Eternal Kingdom of God:

Rom 3:23 14 Rom 1:28 15 Rom 6:23 16 Heb 9:27 17 Rev 21:8; 22:15 18 Rom 2:7 19 Rev 21:24; 22:2 20 John 5:28,29 21 John 5:24 22 1John 3:14,16; Acts 2:44,45; 4:32-35 23 John 7:17 24 Isa 53:10; Acts 2:24; 2 Cor 5:15 25 Matt 10:37-39; Mark 10:29-30; Luke 14:26-33 26 Acts 13:46 27 John 8:51 28 Rev 21:10-12 29 Eph 2:12,13

With A Rod of Iron. There will be no more wars in heaven or here below on Earth. The universe will be restored, becoming infused with divine, cosmic-celestial light. We will become immortal, luminous/photonic in nature, rather than the dark matter that we are comprised of today, in our fallen state. In that singularity state, there is no more time or space as we know it, and the past can be influenced from above. There is a type of "retro-causation", where the future influences the past. YHWH pulls history to Himself. It is after all His Story.

אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה‎‎ ('ehye 'ăšer 'ehye) - I WILL BECOME, WHOM I WILL BECOME. ​

Other religions worship the god of being, whereas the disciples of Yehoshua worship the God Of Becoming. Eternal expansion and growth, from simple to eternally complex, both below and above, from before and after, forever, the all in all, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, God above, God with us, God within us.

​

 

[BreezeWood]

God within us.

took a while for that one, you left out white trash -

christianity.

those 1st books, the liar moses - above are the 10 commandments, obviously that's what's in you.

 

[hobelim]

The Filthy ruin the lives of others with their moral corruption.

I see that you perpetuate the same ignorant literal interpretation of the Divine commands that Jesus died opposing which perverts the image and likeness of God into that of a capricious and puerile petty tyrant obsessed with diet, fashion, and the sexual preferences of consenting adults.

Your vile and loathsome beliefs about God is what is truly filthy and your obsession with winning over converts and misleading them into being soulless replicants of yourself amounts to murder.

You see filth in people celebrating their sexuality because a terminal perversion dwells within you and then you persecute the innocent as if its was a religious duty. Talk about moral corruption!

Your audacity is astonishing, your blindness fascinating. Very interesting, but stupid. Remember?

"Satan was a murderer from the beginning" (even though he literally didn't kill anyone in the story)

If you don't believe me you can look it up. And then there is this:

"Anyone who sets aside even the least of these commands, and teaches others to do the same, (which amounts to murder), will be called least in the kingdom of Heaven." Aren't you a believer?

To learn what Jesus meant by saying "least", see Genesis 3:14.... Now you and everyone knows.