Zone1 Which came first, Christianity or Judaism?

[Woodznutz]

I sure do. Its as easy as knowing whether a person is living or dead. One just has to pay attention.

Pssst! Your words reveal where you are at. In a tomb full of corruption and dead mens bones. You may not realize this but your sin is as obvious as a white boulder in the middle of a plowed field.

Like being saved or alive, some things just can't be faked. Even by a good actor.. and you suck

In mental institutions they often take religious material away from people like you, for your own good.

 

[rosends]

Adom is red but it is used to refer to things that are red also. For example, when Esau (who was ruddy when born, so he was referred to as "Admoni" אַדְמוֹנִ֔י) wants some of the food Jacob is eating, he refers to it as הָאָדֹ֤ם הָאָדֹם֙ הַזֶּ֔ה (this red, red stuff) "Ha'adom" and red earth is called "adumim" In Josh 15:7 ("מַעֲלֵה אֲדֻמִּים") which Wikipedia ties to iron oxide in the ground. As man was made from "earth" which is named fro the color of the earth (adama) he is called Adam. Some might connect this to blood (dam) as well, or "image" d'mut I guess.

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[hobelim]

In mental institutions they often take religious material away from people like you, for your own good.

Is that the best response that you could come up with? Damn. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And some people "believe" that they are spared from the consequences of their own sins by defying Divine law, worshipping a nonexistent trinity, and celebrating an innocent human sacrifice.

Imagine that!

 

[Woodznutz]

Is that the best response that you could come up with? Damn. You should be ashamed of yourself.

True, nonetheless.

and celebrating an innocent human sacrifice.

Passover is observed somberly, not "celebrated".

 

[hobelim]

True, nonetheless.

Passover is observed somberly, not "celebrated".

Awesome! You "somberly" celebrate the death of an innocent man believing that a human sacrifice absolves you from the consequences for your own sins. Is that ethical? And you are OK with that?

Jesus suffered and died so that 'we' don't have to? Yay! whoopee! I mean somberly that is....

It is truly inspiring to see the many wonderful things that your addled religion has done for you.

And I'm sure that Jesus is very impressed with your love for him.

I am.

 

[rosends]

Passover is observed somberly, not "celebrated".

Passover is celebrated. It is not somber.

 

[Woodznutz]

Awesome! You "somberly" celebrate the death of an innocent man believing that a human sacrifice absolves you from the consequences for your own sins. Is that ethical? And you are OK with that?

Jesus suffered and died so that 'we' don't have to? Yay! whoopee! I mean somberly that is....

It is truly inspiring to see the many wonderful things that your addled religion has done for you.

And I'm sure that Jesus is very impressed with your love for him.

I am.

Faith in Christ saves us from eternal death, it doesn't prevent us from skinning our knees here and now.

 

[Woodznutz]

Passover is celebrated. It is not somber.

In Judaism yes, Christianity not so much.

 

[rosends]

In Judaism yes, Christianity not so much.

Do Christians celebrate Passover, or Pascha?

 

[Woodznutz]

Do Christians celebrate Passover, or Pascha?

Some Christian churches teach it as history, and some even observe it. However, it has mostly been coopted by the Jews.

It was quite a somber, even frightening, event. It is a festival for the Jews as they don't recognize the sacrificial lamb as a type of Christ. They were just happy to plunder the Egyptians and get the hell of there.

Exodus 12​

12 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,
2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's passover.
12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.
13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.
20 Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.
21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the Lord will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the Lord's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

 

[rosends]

Some Christian churches teach it as history, and some even observe it. However, it has mostly been coopted by the Jews.

It was quite a somber, even frightening, event. It is a festival for the Jews as they don't recognize the sacrificial lamb as a type of Christ. They were just happy to plunder the Egyptians and get the hell of there.

Exodus 12​

12 And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying,
2 This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you.
3 Speak ye unto all the congregation of Israel, saying, In the tenth day of this month they shall take to them every man a lamb, according to the house of their fathers, a lamb for an house:
4 And if the household be too little for the lamb, let him and his neighbour next unto his house take it according to the number of the souls; every man according to his eating shall make your count for the lamb.
5 Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:
6 And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.
7 And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.
8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the Lord's passover.
12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.
13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
16 And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.
17 And ye shall observe the feast of unleavened bread; for in this selfsame day have I brought your armies out of the land of Egypt: therefore shall ye observe this day in your generations by an ordinance for ever.
18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.
19 Seven days shall there be no leaven found in your houses: for whosoever eateth that which is leavened, even that soul shall be cut off from the congregation of Israel, whether he be a stranger, or born in the land.
20 Ye shall eat nothing leavened; in all your habitations shall ye eat unleavened bread.
21 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover.
22 And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning.
23 For the Lord will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the Lord will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.
24 And ye shall observe this thing for an ordinance to thee and to thy sons for ever.
25 And it shall come to pass, when ye be come to the land which the Lord will give you, according as he hath promised, that ye shall keep this service.
26 And it shall come to pass, when your children shall say unto you, What mean ye by this service?
27 That ye shall say, It is the sacrifice of the Lord's passover, who passed over the houses of the children of Israel in Egypt, when he smote the Egyptians, and delivered our houses. And the people bowed the head and worshipped.

then you grossly misunderstand Passover.

 

[BreezeWood]

Faith in Christ saves us from eternal death ...

for what was alive and well, why would you need faith to satisfy your need - you have no concrete evidence jesus was what you claim them to be.

 

[AsherN]

Some Christian churches teach it as history, and some even observe it. However, it has mostly been coopted by the Jews.

coopted??? How does one coopt their own holy day?

 

[Woodznutz]

then you grossly misunderstand Passover.

I understand the historical Passover as described in scripture. It's the Jewish Passover that I don't understand.

 

[Woodznutz]

for what was alive and well, why would you need faith to satisfy your need - you have no concrete evidence jesus was what you claim them to be.

That's why it's called faith.

 

[Woodznutz]

coopted??? How does one coopt their own holy day?

The Jew's Passover was likely another product of 'Judaizing' the religion. It doesn't resemble the Passover of scripture. In fact, none of the other holy days celebrated by the Jews resemble those commanded by God.

 

[AsherN]

The Jew's Passover was likely another product of 'Judaizing' the religion. It doesn't resemble the Passover of scripture. In fact, none of the other holy days celebrated by the Jews resemble those commanded by God.

I suggest you stop trying to comment on Judaism. You clearly know nothing about it. At best you come off as ignorant. At worst you come off as an Antisemite.

 

[irosie91]

I suggest you stop trying to comment on Judaism. You clearly know nothing about it. At best you come off as ignorant. At worst you come off as an Antisemite.

The Jew's Passover was likely another product of 'Judaizing' the religion. It doesn't resemble the Passover of scripture. In fact, none of the other holy days celebrated by the Jews resemble those commanded by God.

Mr. Nutz----what does " "JUDAIZING" the religion" in reference to Judaism mean? Is there
a form of Judaism that is not JUDAISM? How would YOU "celebrate" or "observe"
the days that are prescribed in the Jewish scriptural writings?

 

[irosie91]

Is that the best response that you could come up with? Damn. You should be ashamed of yourself.

And some people "believe" that they are spared from the consequences of their own sins by defying Divine law, worshipping a nonexistent trinity, and celebrating an innocent human sacrifice.

Imagine that!

sheeeesh! Hobie----"HUMAN SACRIFICE" ??? shades of Moloch or Dagan or whatevah

 

[rosends]

I understand the historical Passover as described in scripture. It's the Jewish Passover that I don't understand.

I sense that you are looking at a translation of text in a vacuum and trying to imagine an observance driven solely by those words. That would be impossible as there is not that much explanation given in the text. Judaism has much more in the way of text and instruction which we date back to biblical times. We can't understand how people can think that any observance limited to the written verses is possible.