- Thread starter
- #421
I don't believe that the doctrine of the Trinity is the true doctrine of the godhead. The Trinity doctrine states that the Father and Son are the same being but separate and distinct persons. That to me is mumble jumble. God the Father and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct beings and individuals. The oneness of God is that they are one in purpose. As a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we do not believe the doctrine of the trinity. We believe that God the Father is an exalted man with a perfected body of flesh and bones who is perfect and has all knowledge and power that can be had by a God. Jesus Christ was his firstborn spirit child and was a most excellent spirit. He was perfect in spirit but had not yet received a body. We believe that having an immortal body is part of the perfection of God and mankind. Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost were chosen as spirit children of the Father to be members of the Godhead in the beginning. Jesus, as the second member of the Godhead, created all things that were created according to the Bible (see John 1:1-3, 14). He had tremendous power given him before the foundation of this world. Thus the Father, through Jesus, created this earth and mankind. In John 1 we also learn that God the Father had never been seen by mankind up to the days of John according to John 1:18. However, the God of the Old Testament had been seen by several prophets. For example see Genesis 32:30 and Exodus 33:11. We believe that Jesus Christ was the Great I AM and Jehovah of the Old Testament. Jesus verifies this in John 8:58 when he tells the Jews that he is I AM. Jesus himself while on this earth tells us that his Father is greater than he is (see John 14:28). And as I have shown you before in a previous post, Jesus does nothing but what the Father would have him do (see John 5:19). We don't know if Jesus had a perfect knowledge before being born on earth, but while on the earth, as you have pointed out, he did not have a perfect knowledge that the Father had. However, since Jesus is completely subordinate to the Father as the second member of the Godhead, the godhead is believed to be all knowing because of the perfection of the Father because they are one in purpose and the Father is the head of the godhead. It may be that before experiencing his earth life, Jesus may have also had all knowledge, we don't know. However, with the Father being part of the godhead, we don't need to speculate but know that a knowledge of all things was had among the godhead. I believe now that Jesus has resurrected and taken his seat next to the Father in heaven, He now also has a perfect knowledge and is an exalted and immortal man like the Father. All things in heaven and earth are directed under the direction of the Father. Jesus was a most excellent spirit and when he came to this earth he lived a life without sin unto perfection. Because of this, he was a perfectly innocent and a godly being who was not part of the fall. However, because he was the son of Mary, he could die at his own choosing.Again.........................then why did Jesus tell His disciples when asked about the day He would return "nobody but the Father knows"? If Jesus and God were one and the same, wouldn't He (They) have been able to tell them?
As far as the Trinity? Strictly a Christian invention.................
Trinity - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
While the developed doctrine of the Trinity is not explicit in the books that constitute the New Testament, it was first formulated as early Christians attempted to understand the relationship between Jesus and God in their scriptural documents and prior traditions.[14]
An early reference to the three "persons" of later Trinitarian doctrines appears towards the end of the first century, where Clement of Rome rhetorically asks in his epistle as to why corruption exists among some in the Christian community; "Do we not have one God, and one Christ, and one gracious Spirit that has been poured out upon us, and one calling in Christ?" (1 Clement 46:6).[71] A similar example is found in the first century Didache, which directs Christians to "baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit".[72]
John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Thus Jesus voluntarily layed down his life so that mankind could be forgiven if they would repent though he deserved none of it, it was unjust that he suffer. His recompense for all the suffering and death was that he won the right to forgive sin if mankind would repent and change their lives into being good beings. All mankind has sinned and fallen short of the kingdom of heaven and without forgiveness of sin no man could be saved into the kingdom of heaven. However, God has provided a way for us to learn good from evil in this life and find forgiveness of sin for our imperfections and mistakes if we would only repent.
So Jesus and the Father are not the same being and the Father is greater than the Christ according to Jesus himself. Yes, there was that one thing that you point out that clearly shows that the Father and Son are not the same being and are separate and distinct beings and persons. Jesus, to be one in purpose with the Father needs to be totally submissive to the Father. This was a difficult choice for Jesus when faced with the suffer he was to bear and asked the Father to "take this cup from me, nevertheless not my will but thine be done". Jesus submitted to the will of the Father and completed the salvation of mankind. Jesus was exceeding great in my eyes and was the God of the Old Testament whom the prophets spoke to face to face. He is the author of what the Jews believe to be the Law of Moses. He was in the beginning with God and he, as a member of the godhead, was God.
