Zone1 Where in The Bible does it state that "Christians" will be "Raptured Up" before The Tribulation?

No. (Rom. 9:6) "...For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:"



The term Jew is at times used interchangeably with the term Israelite. (Rom. 3:1-2) "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God."

(Acts 21:39) "But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus...."

(Rom. 11:1) "I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin."

Of course all tribes of Israel will be represented in the Kingdom. I have not indicated otherwise.

Well, I think it is important to identify who 'Israel' is in order to understand the Rapture.

Quantrill
In order to Learn more about "The Way" of The Scriptures, I've studied "Judaism", & at first it shocked me to learn that it is not united, as I was told by several "Jews", & Rabbis back in the 70s. I was also told, & it is still be stated by some "Jewish Rabbis", that "Judah/Yudah" "Is All of The Children of Israel", which is a lie.

The "House of Yisrael" (The Ten Northern Tribes), due to it's "Outright Godlessness"was carried off in to slavery by the Assyrians, in several stages. The House of Yisrael was relocated to the N. Eastern, & Eastern area of the Assyrian Empire. Assyria also relocated Samaritans to the land that the "House of Yisrael" had previously ruled. The "House of Yisrael" per several Scriptures never returned to their land. And this is important in My Belief, for "The House of Yisrael", when Babylon defeated the Assyrians, it fled to the Eastern areas of the Black Sea.

The House of Yisrael lost it's "Identity", but it was never destroyed. Instead it became known by other names.

The Messiah stated:

Mat 10:5 Jesus sent these twelve out, and commanded them, saying, “Don’t go among the Gentiles, and don’t enter into any city of the Samaritans.
Mat 10:6 Rather, go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Mat 10:7 As you go, preach, saying, ‘The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!’

Mat 15:22 Behold, a Canaanite woman came out from those borders, and cried, saying, “Have mercy on me, Lord, you son of David! My daughter is severely possessed by a demon!”
Mat 15:23 But he answered her not a word. His disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away; for she cries after us.”
Mat 15:24 But he answered, “I wasn’t sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
I Believe that the "Key" to unlocking the Scriptures, is study what is stated about Israel, as well as what is prophesied by Israel. Israel,& the "Gentiles" joined with them will be "gathered", & placed within their Covenant Land.:

Isa_27:12 It will happen in that day, that Yahweh will thresh from the flowing stream of the Euphrates to the brook of Egypt; and you will be gathered one by one, children of Israel.
Isa 27:13 It will happen in that day that a great trumpet will be blown; and those who were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and those who were outcasts in the land of Egypt, shall come; and they will worship Yahweh in the holy mountain at Jerusalem.

Jer 31:8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country, and gather them from the uttermost parts of the earth, along with the blind and the lame, the woman with child and her who travails with child together. They will return as a great company.
Jer 31:9 They will come with weeping. I will lead them with petitions. I will cause them to walk by rivers of waters, in a straight way in which they won’t stumble; for I am a father to Israel. Ephraim is my firstborn.

Ezk_28:25 “‘Thus says the Lord Yahweh: “When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are scattered, and am sanctified in them in the sight of the nations, then they will dwell in their own land which I gave to my servant Jacob.
This "gathering", will not occurr until after The "Time of Yacob's Trouble", which is also, in My Belief, "The Time of Trouble"of Daniel 12:

Dan 12:1 “At that time Michael will stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there will be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time. At that time your people will be delivered, everyone who is found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 Many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Dan 12:3 Those who are wise will shine as the brightness of the expanse. Those who turn many to righteousness will shine as the stars forever and ever.

And it is the "Time of Oppression"/"The Tribulation", which per Matthew 24:,, also speaks of the Resurrection, at it's end.:

Signs of the End of the Age
Mat 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? What is the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?”
Mat 24:4 Jesus answered them, “Be careful that no one leads you astray.
Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will lead many astray.
Mat 24:6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you aren’t troubled, for all this must happen, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there will be famines, plagues, and earthquakes in various places.
Mat 24:8 But all these things are the beginning of birth pains.
Mat 24:9 Then they will deliver you up to oppression, and will kill you. You will be hated by all of the nations for my name’s sake.
Mat 24:10 Then many will stumble, and will deliver up one another, and will hate one another.
Mat 24:11 Many false prophets will arise, and will lead many astray.
Mat 24:12 Because iniquity will be multiplied, the love of many will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end, the same will be saved.
Mat 24:14 This Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The Abomination of Desolation
Mat 24:15 “When, therefore, you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Mat 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Mat 24:17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take out the things that are in his house.
Mat 24:18 Let him who is in the field not return back to get his clothes.
Mat 24:19 But woe to those who are with child and to nursing mothers in those days!
Mat 24:20 Pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on a Sabbath,
Mat 24:21 for then there will be great oppression, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be.
Mat 24:22 Unless those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved. But for the sake of the chosen ones, those days will be shortened.
Mat 24:23 “Then if any man tells you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There,’ don’t believe it.
Mat 24:24 For there will arise false christs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones.
Mat 24:25 “Behold, I have told you beforehand.
Mat 24:26 If therefore they tell you, ‘Behold, he is in the wilderness,’ don’t go out; ‘Behold, he is in the inner rooms,’ don’t believe it.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning flashes from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:28 For wherever the carcass is, that is where the vultures gather together.

The Coming of the Son of Man
Mat 24:29 But immediately after the oppression of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
Mat 24:30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

There are many, many more Prophecies that speak of the End Times, and they speak of the "Gathering" of The Believing Children of Yisrael, as well as the Believing Gentiles that will join with them.:

Isa 14:1 For Yahweh will have compassion on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land. The foreigner will join himself with them, and they will unite with the house of Jacob.
No Where in The Scriptures, be they Canonized, or, "Un-Canonized", will anything be found that states that any group of people will be "Raptured up"/"Whisked up"/"Gathered up" to Heaven, so as to be rescued from the Horror, & Suffering of "The Time of Yacob's Trouble"/"The Tribulation".
Instead, All Believers of, & in The Messiah, & His Way that are Alive, & Dead, will Meet Him in the air, and they will be changed, by receiving their "Spiritual Bodies, & Then, The Messiah, The Angels, & The "Resurrected Believers", return back to Earth, .... Make War upon, & Defeat the "Little Horn"/"Assyrian"/"Antichrist.:

Psa 149:1 Praise Yahweh! Sing to Yahweh a new song, his praise in the assembly of the saints.
Psa 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in him who made them. Let the children of Zion be joyful in their King.
Psa 149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance! Let them sing praises to him with tambourine and harp!
Psa 149:4 For Yahweh takes pleasure in his people. He crowns the humble with salvation.
Psa 149:5 Let the saints rejoice in honor. Let them sing for joy on their beds.
Psa 149:6 May the high praises of God be in their mouths, and a two-edged sword in their hand;
Psa 149:7 To execute vengeance on the nations, and punishments on the peoples;
Psa 149:8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron;
Psa 149:9 to execute on them the written judgment. All his saints have this honor. Praise Yah!
Rejoicing in Heaven
Rev 19:1 After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, “Hallelujah! Salvation, power, and glory belong to our God:
Rev 19:2 for true and righteous are his judgments. For he has judged the great prostitute, who corrupted the earth with her sexual immorality, and he has avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.”
Rev 19:3 A second said, “Hallelujah! Her smoke goes up forever and ever.”
Rev 19:4 The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne, saying, “Amen! Hallelujah!”
Rev 19:5 A voice came from the throne, saying, “Give praise to our God, all you his servants, you who fear him, the small and the great!”
The Marriage Supper of the Lamb
Rev 19:6 I heard something like the voice of a great multitude, and like the voice of many waters, and like the voice of mighty thunders, saying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns!
Rev 19:7 Let’s rejoice and be exceedingly glad, and let’s give the glory to him. For the marriage of the Lamb has come, and his wife has made herself ready.”
Rev 19:8 It was given to her that she would array herself in bright, pure, fine linen: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Rev 19:9 He said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” He said to me, “These are true words of God.”
Rev 19:10 I fell down before his feet to worship him. He said to me, “Look! Don’t do it! I am a fellow bondservant with you and with your brothers who hold the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy.”
The Rider on a White Horse
Rev 19:11 I saw the heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it is called Faithful and True. In righteousness he judges and makes war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes are a flame of fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has names written and a name written which no one knows but he himself.
Rev 19:13 He is clothed in a garment sprinkled with blood. His name is called “The Word of God.”
Rev 19:14 The armies which are in heaven followed him on white horses, clothed in white, pure, fine linen.
Rev 19:15 Out of his mouth proceeds a sharp, double-edged sword, that with it he should strike the nations. He will rule them with an iron rod. He treads the wine press of the fierceness of the wrath of God, the Almighty.
Rev 19:16 He has on his garment and on his thigh a name written, “KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”
Rev 19:17 I saw an angel standing in the sun. He cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the sky, “Come! Be gathered together to the great supper of God,
Rev 19:18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and slave, small and great.”
Rev 19:19 I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him who sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 The beast was taken, and with him the false prophet who worked the signs in his sight, with which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur.
Rev 19:21 The rest were killed with the sword of him who sat on the horse, the sword which came out of his mouth. All the birds were filled with their flesh.
Rev 20:1 I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were finished. After this, he must be freed for a short time.
Rev 20:4 I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.

The majority of those who proclaim "Lord!" Today, once they see that they are not going to escape the Horror of the End Times,...... They will quickly give up their "Luke Warm/Cold Faith",..... And worship/proclaim the "Little Horn"/"Assyrian"/"Beast".
 
TruthSeeker112125

Some important points:

1.) Israel is the nation Israel.

2.) The Church is not Israel. This is important as some want to identify in the New Testament the Church as 'spiritual Israel'

3.) The Church is a new body of believers composed of believing Jews (Israelites) and believing Gentiles.

4.) The Church is who is raptured.

5.) When the Church is raptured, God begins working with Israel once again, and the Tribulation, the time of 'Jacobs Trouble' begins.

6.) Thus the timing of the Rapture must be prior to the Tribulation.

Quantrill
 
TruthSeeker112125

Some important points:

1.) Israel is the nation Israel.

2.) The Church is not Israel. This is important as some want to identify in the New Testament the Church as 'spiritual Israel'

3.) The Church is a new body of believers composed of believing Jews (Israelites) and believing Gentiles.

4.) The Church is who is raptured.

5.) When the Church is raptured, God begins working with Israel once again, and the Tribulation, the time of 'Jacobs Trouble' begins.

6.) Thus the timing of the Rapture must be prior to the Tribulation.

Quantrill
1.) True kinda,..... But it's only "The House of Judah/Yudah", meaning "The Jews".
2.) Wrong,..... You need to study the Scriptures, as if Your Life depends upon it.
3.) Wrong. See #2.
4.) Totally Wrong ,... There is no "Pre-Trib Rapture".
5.) Wrong again, see #4. & #2.
6.)Wrong again, see #4. & #2.
 
The Messiah didn't Teach anything about being "Raptured Up/Out/Away"!! Nor did the Apostle John!

Signs of the End of the Age
Mat 24:3 As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? What is the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age?”
Mat 24:4 Jesus answered them, “Be careful that no one leads you astray.
Mat 24:5 For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will lead many astray.
Mat 24:6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you aren’t troubled, for all this must happen, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there will be famines, plagues, and earthquakes in various places.
Mat 24:8 But all these things are the beginning of birth pains.
Mat 24:9 Then they will deliver you up to oppression, and will kill you. You will be hated by all of the nations for my name’s sake.
Mat 24:10 Then many will stumble, and will deliver up one another, and will hate one another.
Mat 24:11 Many false prophets will arise, and will lead many astray.
Mat 24:12 Because iniquity will be multiplied, the love of many will grow cold.
Mat 24:13 But he who endures to the end, the same will be saved.
Mat 24:14 This Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world for a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
The Abomination of Desolation
Mat 24:15 “When, therefore, you see the abomination of desolation, which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),
Mat 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
Mat 24:17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take out the things that are in his house.
Mat 24:18 Let him who is in the field not return back to get his clothes.
Mat 24:19 But woe to those who are with child and to nursing mothers in those days!
Mat 24:20 Pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on a Sabbath,
Mat 24:21 for then there will be great oppression, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be.
Mat 24:22 Unless those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved. But for the sake of the chosen ones, those days will be shortened.
Mat 24:23 “Then if any man tells you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There,’ don’t believe it.
Mat 24:24 For there will arise false christs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones.
Mat 24:25 “Behold, I have told you beforehand.
Mat 24:26 If therefore they tell you, ‘Behold, he is in the wilderness,’ don’t go out; ‘Behold, he is in the inner rooms,’ don’t believe it.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning flashes from the east, and is seen even to the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
Mat 24:28 For wherever the carcass is, that is where the vultures gather together.
The Coming of the Son of Man
Mat 24:29 But immediately after the oppression of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
Mat 24:30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been killed for the Word of God, and for the testimony of the Lamb which they had.
Rev 6:10 They cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, Master, the holy and true, until you judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?”
Rev 6:11 A long white robe was given to each of them. They were told that they should rest yet for a while, until their fellow servants and their brothers, who would also be killed even as they were, should complete their course.


Rev 13:6 He opened his mouth for blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his dwelling, those who dwell in heaven.
Rev 13:7 It was given to him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. Authority over every tribe, people, language, and nation was given to him.
Rev 13:8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been killed.
Rev 13:9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.

Rev 13:14 He deceives my own people who dwell on the earth because of the signs he was granted to do in front of the beast; saying to those who dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast who had the sword wound and lived.
Rev 13:15 It was given to him to give breath to it, to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause as many as wouldn’t worship the image of the beast to be killed.
Rev 13:16 He causes all, the small and the great, the rich and the poor, and the free and the slave, to be given marks on their right hands, or on their foreheads;
Rev 13:17 and that no one would be able to buy or to sell, unless he has that mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

Rev 20:1 I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2 He seized the dragon, the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole inhabited earth, and bound him for a thousand years,
Rev 20:3 and cast him into the abyss, and shut it, and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, until the thousand years were finished. After this, he must be freed for a short time.
Rev 20:4 I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as didn’t worship the beast nor his image, and didn’t receive the mark on their forehead and on their hand. They lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead didn’t live until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over these, the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with him one thousand years.
The rapture doctrine is relatively new. The fantasy was dreamed up by John Darby in 1830. It's a hoax and actually a dangerous doctrine that leads millions to an empty trough of false hope.

By the way ... what version of the Bible are you quoting from?
 
The biblical "trumps" of God:

1 Thessalonians 4:16, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

1 Corinthians 15:52, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."


What is this "trump" spoken of in these verses? Well ... there are 7 of them carried by 7 angels (Rev 8:6):

Trump #1, (Rev 8:7): " The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up."

Trump #2, (Rev 8:8-9): "And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed."

Trump #3, (Rev 8:10-11), "And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Trump #4, (Rev 8:12), "And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise."

Trump #5, (Rev 9:1-2), "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

Trump #6, (Rev 9:13-15), "And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men."

Trump #7, (Rev 11:15), "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

The 7th Trump is "the last trump" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52. The previous 6 trumps represent the chronological aspects of the Great Tribulation. Christ doesn't return until AFTER the Great Tribulation.

Matthew 24:29-31, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
 
1.) True kinda,..... But it's only "The House of Judah/Yudah", meaning "The Jews".
2.) Wrong,..... You need to study the Scriptures, as if Your Life depends upon it.
3.) Wrong. See #2.
4.) Totally Wrong ,... There is no "Pre-Trib Rapture".
5.) Wrong again, see #4. & #2.
6.)Wrong again, see #4. & #2.

1.) No, true period. See again post #(94-95)

2.) No, the Church is not Israel. (Eph. 2:15) "to make in himself of twain one new man" (Eph. 3:6) "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body" (Rom. 11:25) "blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

3.) No, the Church is a new body of believers composed of believing Jews (Israelites) and Gentiles. (Eph. 2:15) (Eph. 3:6) (Rom. 11:25)

4.) The point here is that the Church is who is raptured. Not the timing.

5.) #(4) and #(2) do not apply. "blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." When that occurs, the Rapture occurs. When the Rapture occurs the 7 year Tribulation can begin. 'Time of Jacobs trouble'

6.) #(4) and #(2) do not apply. Thus the Rapture must be prior to the Tribulation.

Quantrill
 
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1.) No, true period. See again post #(94-95)

2.) No, the Church is not Israel. (Eph. 2:15) "to make in himself of twain one new man" (Eph. 3:6) "That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body" (Rom. 11:25) "blindness in part is happened to Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

3.) No, the Church is a new body of believers composed of believing Jews (Israelites) and Gentiles. (Eph. 2:15) (Eph. 3:6) (Rom. 11:25)

4.) The point here is that the Church is who is raptured. Not the timing.

5.) #(4) and #(2) do not apply. "blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." When that occurs, the Rapture occurs. When the Rapture occurs the 7 year Tribulation can begin. 'Time of Jacobs trouble'

6.) #(4) and #(2) do not apply. Thus the Rapture must be prior to the Tribulation.

Quantrill
See Comment #103

And Think about Casting off All of Man's Teachings, & Studying The Scriptures, with a Zeal for The Truth.
 
The rapture doctrine is relatively new. The fantasy was dreamed up by John Darby in 1830. It's a hoax and actually a dangerous doctrine that leads millions to an empty trough of false hope.

By the way ... what version of the Bible are you quoting from?
Greetings Saxon,
You've spoken The Truth!!

I've been using the "World English Bible" via the application Esword. I also have 18 different Bibles on that application, & I Physically have 4 different Bibles.
 
The biblical "trumps" of God:

1 Thessalonians 4:16, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:"

1 Corinthians 15:52, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."


What is this "trump" spoken of in these verses? Well ... there are 7 of them carried by 7 angels (Rev 8:6):

Trump #1, (Rev 8:7): " The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up."

Trump #2, (Rev 8:8-9): "And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed."

Trump #3, (Rev 8:10-11), "And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter."

Trump #4, (Rev 8:12), "And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise."

Trump #5, (Rev 9:1-2), "And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit."

Trump #6, (Rev 9:13-15), "And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God, Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men."

Trump #7, (Rev 11:15), "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."

The 7th Trump is "the last trump" mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52. The previous 6 trumps represent the chronological aspects of the Great Tribulation. Christ doesn't return until AFTER the Great Tribulation.

Matthew 24:29-31, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."
AMEN Saxon!!!!!!!!!
 
See Comment #103

And Think about Casting off All of Man's Teachings, & Studying The Scriptures, with a Zeal for The Truth.

I already addressed post #(103) with post #(107).

Why send me back to #(103)? You have never addressed #(107). Why?

What are the man's teachings I should cast off?

Quantrill
 
I already addressed post #(103) with post #(107).

Why send me back to #(103)? You have never addressed #(107). Why?

What are the man's teachings I should cast off?

Quantrill
You addressed those via The Teachings of Man's Religions.
"What are the man's teachings I should cast off?"

If You Truly Seek The Truth, & Truly Honor The Messiah & His Way, not Man's,..... Then Anything that Disputes/Corrupts the Teachings of The Messiah, His Prophets, & The Torah
 
You addressed those via The Teachings of Man's Religions.
"What are the man's teachings I should cast off?"

If You Truly Seek The Truth, & Truly Honor The Messiah & His Way, not Man's,..... Then Anything that Disputes/Corrupts the Teachings of The Messiah, His Prophets, & The Torah

Liar. See post #(107). I give you the Scriptures.

How ironic. I give you Scripture and you give me bullshit. Yet you say I should cast off man's teachings.

Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? God's words, not man's?

Quantrill
 
Liar. See post #(107). I give you the Scriptures.

How ironic. I give you Scripture and you give me bullshit. Yet you say I should cast off man's teachings.

Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God? God's words, not man's?

Quantrill
No Quant,

You Twisted The Scriptures to fit Your Belief, Made by Man. I am not a Liar.

You call a Body of "Lord!" Proclaimers, ...The "Church", that has at least 30,000 Widely Different & Heretical Sects that call each other "Brother", but they refuse the Doctrines of that "Brother".

You Deny The Teachings of The Messiah, and the Prophets, & yet have the Utter Gall to call me a Liar? :4_13_65:
 
I'm not disputing that The "Believers" will be caught up in the Air JGalt, for they will but, They will meet The messiah in the air, & then promptly come down to Earth with him, participate in the Battle of Armageddon, & then establish The Kingdom of Heaven,... Here on earth.

But No Where in The Scriptures is it written that they all just go up to Heaven, & escape The Tribulation.
The Kingdom of Heaven already exists partially on earth in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All the saving eternal ordinances have been conferred upon the Priesthood men of the Church and are being carried out by men and women alike. The fullness of the Gospel is being proclaimed. The teaching for the salvation of those who live on the earth is happening. Redeeming the dead as well through Temple work. Assisting the Poor and the needy as well. Come unto Christ.
 
No Quant,

You Twisted The Scriptures to fit Your Belief, Made by Man. I am not a Liar.

You call a Body of "Lord!" Proclaimers, ...The "Church", that has at least 30,000 Widely Different & Heretical Sects that call each other "Brother", but they refuse the Doctrines of that "Brother".

You Deny The Teachings of The Messiah, and the Prophets, & yet have the Utter Gall to call me a Liar? :4_13_65:

You answer nothing with Scripture. You offer only your opinion.

Yes, I call you a liar.

Quantrill
 
15th post
The Kingdom of Heaven already exists partially on earth in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. All the saving eternal ordinances have been conferred upon the Priesthood men of the Church and are being carried out by men and women alike. The fullness of the Gospel is being proclaimed. The teaching for the salvation of those who live on the earth is happening. Redeeming the dead as well through Temple work. Assisting the Poor and the needy as well. Come unto Christ.
"The Kingdom of Heaven already exists partially on earth in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

I Disagree Cougarbear.
 
"The Kingdom of Heaven already exists partially on earth in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

I Disagree Cougarbear.
I have it on the good word of the Holy Ghost that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christ's church on the earth. In fact, each of the Temples is the House of the Lord.
 
I have it on the good word of the Holy Ghost that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is Christ's church on the earth. In fact, each of the Temples is the House of the Lord.
Not According to the Scriptures Cougar.
 
Not According to the Scriptures Cougar.
The Holy Ghost has testified that the Bible does say this. Here are a few scriptures that lead us to knowing The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the Church Christ established in these latter days:
  • Christ organized the Church. Ephesians 4:11-14
  • The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ. Ephesians 5:23
  • The true church must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets. Ephesians 2:19-20
  • The true church must have the same organization as Christ’s Church in Bible. Ephesians 4:11-14
  • The true church must claim divine authority. Hebrews 5:4-10
  • The true church must have no paid ministry. Isaiah 45:13 and 1Peter 5:2
  • The true church must baptize by immersion. Matthew 3:13-16
  • The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands. Acts 8:12-17
  • The true church must practice divine healing. Mark 3:14-15
  • The true church must teach that God and Jesus Christ are separate and distinct individuals.
  • John 17:11 and John 20:17
  • The true church must teach that God and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bones.
  • Luke 24:36-39 and Acts 1:9-11
  • The true church must have officers called by God. Hebrews 5:4; Exodus 28:1; Exodus 40:13-16
  • The true church must claim revelation from God through Prophets. Amos 3:7
  • The true church must be a missionary Church. Matthew 28:19-20
  • The true church must be a restored Church. Acts 3:19-20
  • The true Church must practice baptisms for the dead. 1Corinthians 15:16 and 29
  • The true Church must be known by their fruits. Matthew 7:20
  • Why are these 17 necessary? Hebrews 13:8, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and today, and forever.”
 
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